Have my many years of watching TV dramas given me a mistaken impression
of what constitutes First Degree Murder? I've always understood that 1st degree involved some level of premeditation, typically evidenced by at
least some interval between forming the thought of killing the person
and actually committing the act. I didn't see *any* premeditation in
this case yet the killer is standing trial for 1st degree murder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwFf2i1CnU8 [15 minutes]
A disgruntled passenger comes up to him, words are exchanged, and the passenger throws the first punch. At that point, it is clearly assault
by the passenger on the driver. But the driver fights back with more
punches and pepper spray and by any reasonable standard would be deemed
to be winning. The passenger exits the bus. The driver follows him,
stabs him once, then follows him and stabs him several more times. (The passenger also had a knife but apparently never used it, just dropping
it on the ground.) The passenger ultimately dies.
As far as we know, the driver never laid eyes on the passenger before
that day when he got on the bus although, since he was going to work, he might have been a regular on that bus. (Or maybe his car broke down and
this was his first time ever on that bus.) It *looks* like the intent to murder was formed when the confrontation began. Is that long enough to constitute first degree murder?
On Sep 22, 2026 at 10:32:40 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
Have my many years of watching TV dramas given me a mistaken impression
of what constitutes First Degree Murder? I've always understood that 1st
degree involved some level of premeditation, typically evidenced by at
least some interval between forming the thought of killing the person
and actually committing the act. I didn't see *any* premeditation in
this case yet the killer is standing trial for 1st degree murder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwFf2i1CnU8 [15 minutes]
A disgruntled passenger comes up to him, words are exchanged, and the
passenger throws the first punch. At that point, it is clearly assault
by the passenger on the driver. But the driver fights back with more
punches and pepper spray and by any reasonable standard would be deemed
to be winning. The passenger exits the bus. The driver follows him,
stabs him once, then follows him and stabs him several more times. (The
passenger also had a knife but apparently never used it, just dropping
it on the ground.) The passenger ultimately dies.
As far as we know, the driver never laid eyes on the passenger before
that day when he got on the bus although, since he was going to work, he
might have been a regular on that bus. (Or maybe his car broke down and
this was his first time ever on that bus.) It *looks* like the intent to
murder was formed when the confrontation began. Is that long enough to
constitute first degree murder?
Yes. Following him and stabbing him was intent to kill.
On 2026-09-22 10:53 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
On Sep 22, 2026 at 10:32:40 AM PDT, "Rhino"
<no_offline_contact@example.com>
wrote:
Have my many years of watching TV dramas given me a mistaken impression
of what constitutes First Degree Murder? I've always understood that 1st >>> degree involved some level of premeditation, typically evidenced by at
least some interval between forming the thought of killing the person
and actually committing the act. I didn't see *any* premeditation in
this case yet the killer is standing trial for 1st degree murder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwFf2i1CnU8 [15 minutes]
A disgruntled passenger comes up to him, words are exchanged, and the
passenger throws the first punch. At that point, it is clearly assault
by the passenger on the driver. But the driver fights back with more
punches and pepper spray and by any reasonable standard would be deemed
to be winning. The passenger exits the bus. The driver follows him,
stabs him once, then follows him and stabs him several more times. (The
passenger also had a knife but apparently never used it, just dropping
it on the ground.) The passenger ultimately dies.
As far as we know, the driver never laid eyes on the passenger before
that day when he got on the bus although, since he was going to work, he >>> might have been a regular on that bus. (Or maybe his car broke down and
this was his first time ever on that bus.) It *looks* like the intent to >>> murder was formed when the confrontation began. Is that long enough to
constitute first degree murder?
Yes. Following him and stabbing him was intent to kill.
So even if intent was formed only 2 minutes before the actual murder,
that counts as premeditated? That surprises me. I don't know what the threshold should be but it seemed too short to me.
Well, that's why I ask people who know more than me; I'm wrong
sometimes. ;-) Thanks for enlightening me.
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