• The future of Usenet and rec.arts.tv

    From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 10:10:25 2026
    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around
    given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial writing on the wall.

    I had a chat with Claude.AI about the possibility of writing some kind
    of replacement for Usenet that would still let groups like rec.arts.tv function but with improvements, like being able to have more control
    over the formatting of posts, imbed pictures or videos directly in
    posts, block cross-posting, etc. and was told we could custom-code
    something like that relatively easily.

    Basically, the process would look like "Hey Claude, I want to build a web-based alternative to Usenet so that any existing Usenet groups that
    want to carry on could do so outside of Usenet on pretty much the same
    basis. Make some improvements though: we want to be able to add
    attachments of photos or videos to our posts rather than having to point
    to them elsewhere via links. We want to keep spam and cross-posts out.
    We want to be able to have more control over the formatting of posts,
    like colours and fonts. Use any programming language you like. Use only
    free services so it doesn't cost anyone anything. Go!" In other words,
    you wouldn't have to have coding skills to drive the process and Claude
    would write all of the code and deploy what you've written to somewhere
    so that you could test the result, then direct it to make changes for
    anything that you didn't like. For example: "the font used for the
    Subject of the post is too small, make it a little bigger and darker".
    Again, just standard English, no need to know a programming language.

    And if all that sounds like too much work - and I could understand if
    you thought it was - there is another solution recommended by Claude,
    namely Discourse, a free existing package that is apparently quite
    similar to Usenet in many ways but better. Claude said you could install
    that and have it up and running in a few hours.

    I'm just posting this here and now so that I don't forget and so that
    you have a starting point if we ever get to the point where Usenet
    actually looks like it is about to die OR if we get sick of the
    limitations of Usenet and opt to try a different way to get together to
    talk about our favourite TV shows (and all the other stuff we get into to).


    --
    Rhino


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Capricorne@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 11:31:58 2026
    Rhino wrote:
    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial writing on the wall.

    I had a chat with Claude.AI about the possibility of writing some kind of replacement for Usenet that would still let groups like rec.arts.tv function but with improvements, like being able to have more control over the formatting of posts, imbed pictures or videos directly in posts, block cross-posting, etc. and was told we could custom-code something like that relatively easily.

    Basically, the process would look like "Hey Claude, I want to build a web-based alternative to Usenet so that any existing Usenet groups that want to carry on could do so outside of Usenet on pretty much the same basis. Make
    some improvements though: we want to be able to add attachments of photos or videos to our posts rather than having to point to them elsewhere via links. We want to keep spam and cross-posts out. We want to be able to have more control over the formatting of posts, like colours and fonts. Use any programming language you like. Use only free services so it doesn't cost anyone anything. Go!" In other words, you wouldn't have to have coding skills
    to drive the process and Claude would write all of the code and deploy what you've written to somewhere so that you could test the result, then direct it
    to make changes for anything that you didn't like. For example: "the font used for the Subject of the post is too small, make it a little bigger and darker". Again, just standard English, no need to know a programming language.

    And if all that sounds like too much work - and I could understand if you thought it was - there is another solution recommended by Claude, namely Discourse, a free existing package that is apparently quite similar to Usenet
    in many ways but better. Claude said you could install that and have it up and running in a few hours.

    I'm just posting this here and now so that I don't forget and so that you have a starting point if we ever get to the point where Usenet actually looks
    like it is about to die OR if we get sick of the limitations of Usenet and opt to try a different way to get together to talk about our favourite TV shows (and all the other stuff we get into to).


    There's a French guy who made a web newsreader. It is called Nemo. I
    don't know if it could do everything you want. You can try it now. Just
    enter rec.arts.tv in the Search. You don't have to login.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 14:16:44 2026
    Verily, in article <n5havfFu6e9U1@mid.individual.net>, did capricorne@gmail.com deliver unto us this message:

    Rhino wrote:
    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around given
    how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial
    writing on the wall.

    I had a chat with Claude.AI about the possibility of writing some kind of replacement for Usenet that would still let groups like rec.arts.tv function
    but with improvements, like being able to have more control over the formatting of posts, imbed pictures or videos directly in posts, block cross-posting, etc. and was told we could custom-code something like that relatively easily.

    Why? There's already a ton of software to use for forums. You could
    create a Discord server, an IRC server, a web forum, a Mastodon
    instance, or any number of other things.


    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nyssa@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 14:33:46 2026
    Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going
    to be around given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or
    absolutely drenched in spam for a while. The disappearance
    of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial
    writing on the wall.

    I had a chat with Claude.AI about the possibility of
    writing some kind of replacement for Usenet that would
    still let groups like rec.arts.tv function but with
    improvements, like being able to have more control over
    the formatting of posts, imbed pictures or videos directly
    in posts, block cross-posting, etc. and was told we could
    custom-code something like that relatively easily.

    Basically, the process would look like "Hey Claude, I want
    to build a web-based alternative to Usenet so that any
    existing Usenet groups that want to carry on could do so
    outside of Usenet on pretty much the same basis. Make some
    improvements though: we want to be able to add attachments
    of photos or videos to our posts rather than having to
    point to them elsewhere via links. We want to keep spam
    and cross-posts out. We want to be able to have more
    control over the formatting of posts, like colours and
    fonts. Use any programming language you like. Use only
    free services so it doesn't cost anyone anything. Go!" In
    other words, you wouldn't have to have coding skills to
    drive the process and Claude would write all of the code
    and deploy what you've written to somewhere so that you
    could test the result, then direct it to make changes for
    anything that you didn't like. For example: "the font used
    for the Subject of the post is too small, make it a little
    bigger and darker". Again, just standard English, no need
    to know a programming language.

    And if all that sounds like too much work - and I could
    understand if you thought it was - there is another
    solution recommended by Claude, namely Discourse, a free
    existing package that is apparently quite similar to
    Usenet in many ways but better. Claude said you could
    install that and have it up and running in a few hours.

    I'm just posting this here and now so that I don't forget
    and so that you have a starting point if we ever get to
    the point where Usenet actually looks like it is about to
    die OR if we get sick of the limitations of Usenet and opt
    to try a different way to get together to talk about our
    favourite TV shows (and all the other stuff we get into
    to).


    So what you'd end up with is Yet Another Web Forum.

    Who registers the domain name for this creature? Pays
    for the web hosting service? Would there be moderators
    for it? What would bring new users to the faux Usenet?

    I've been on Usenet since the mid-1980s. I have always
    liked that it *doesn't* have all the overhead and glitz
    of embedded images, videos, and other distractions.
    Ditto for any fancy fonts, colored text, and other
    content-null add-ons.

    Plain ascii for me, thank you. I'll choose for myself
    which links to follow to see a related image, article,
    or whatever without being force-fed as soon as I open
    the post.

    If you want to play with the idea on your own, fine.
    But I have no interest in a clunky-to-read, web-based
    alternative to plain text and attachment-free Usenet.

    Nyssa, who knows a gaggle of programming languages, but
    has no interest in reinventing a wheel that already
    works



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 18:51:18 2026
    On Apr 30, 2026 at 11:33:46 AM PDT, "Nyssa" <Nyssa@logicalinsight.net> wrote:

    Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going
    to be around given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or
    absolutely drenched in spam for a while. The disappearance
    of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial
    writing on the wall.

    I had a chat with Claude.AI about the possibility of
    writing some kind of replacement for Usenet that would
    still let groups like rec.arts.tv function but with
    improvements, like being able to have more control over
    the formatting of posts, imbed pictures or videos directly
    in posts, block cross-posting, etc. and was told we could
    custom-code something like that relatively easily.

    Basically, the process would look like "Hey Claude, I want
    to build a web-based alternative to Usenet so that any
    existing Usenet groups that want to carry on could do so
    outside of Usenet on pretty much the same basis. Make some
    improvements though: we want to be able to add attachments
    of photos or videos to our posts rather than having to
    point to them elsewhere via links. We want to keep spam
    and cross-posts out. We want to be able to have more
    control over the formatting of posts, like colours and
    fonts. Use any programming language you like. Use only
    free services so it doesn't cost anyone anything. Go!" In
    other words, you wouldn't have to have coding skills to
    drive the process and Claude would write all of the code
    and deploy what you've written to somewhere so that you
    could test the result, then direct it to make changes for
    anything that you didn't like. For example: "the font used
    for the Subject of the post is too small, make it a little
    bigger and darker". Again, just standard English, no need
    to know a programming language.

    And if all that sounds like too much work - and I could
    understand if you thought it was - there is another
    solution recommended by Claude, namely Discourse, a free
    existing package that is apparently quite similar to
    Usenet in many ways but better. Claude said you could
    install that and have it up and running in a few hours.

    I'm just posting this here and now so that I don't forget
    and so that you have a starting point if we ever get to
    the point where Usenet actually looks like it is about to
    die OR if we get sick of the limitations of Usenet and opt
    to try a different way to get together to talk about our
    favourite TV shows (and all the other stuff we get into
    to).


    So what you'd end up with is Yet Another Web Forum.

    Who registers the domain name for this creature? Pays
    for the web hosting service? Would there be moderators
    for it?

    That's the real question. Any and all web forums engage in censorship. Even if the folks running it have an anything goes philosophy, there are more and more laws that *require* moderation and censorship. Even if American authorities don't come after you, the European Union certainly will since it apparently believes it has the right to police the internet for no-no words worldwide.

    Usenet is unique in its decentralization which allows it to be the last
    bastion where people can speak their minds without having a moderator ban them or a government come arrest them.

    I've been on Usenet since the mid-1980s. I have always
    liked that it *doesn't* have all the overhead and glitz
    of embedded images, videos, and other distractions.
    Ditto for any fancy fonts, colored text, and other
    content-null add-ons.

    Agreed. Make any forum more than text-only and you'll end up with nothing but post after post of dancing emojis and the same old reaction memes posted over and over again. We have an entire generation developing that can't type a coherent sentence and speaks in little pictures. We're de-evolving back to hieroglyphics.

    Nyssa, who knows a gaggle of programming languages, but
    has no interest in reinventing a wheel that already
    works

    The wheel works but it's pointless if no one uses it, which sadly, seems to be the case with Usenet these days.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 15:12:30 2026
    On 2026-04-30 10:10 a.m., Rhino wrote:
    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around
    given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial writing on the wall.

    I had a chat with Claude.AI about the possibility of writing some kind
    of replacement for Usenet that would still let groups like rec.arts.tv function but with improvements, like being able to have more control
    over the formatting of posts, imbed pictures or videos directly in
    posts, block cross-posting, etc. and was told we could custom-code
    something like that relatively easily.

    Basically, the process would look like "Hey Claude, I want to build a web-based alternative to Usenet so that any existing Usenet groups that
    want to carry on could do so outside of Usenet on pretty much the same basis. Make some improvements though: we want to be able to add
    attachments of photos or videos to our posts rather than having to point
    to them elsewhere via links. We want to keep spam and cross-posts out.
    We want to be able to have more control over the formatting of posts,
    like colours and fonts. Use any programming language you like. Use only
    free services so it doesn't cost anyone anything. Go!" In other words,
    you wouldn't have to have coding skills to drive the process and Claude would write all of the code and deploy what you've written to somewhere
    so that you could test the result, then direct it to make changes for anything that you didn't like. For example: "the font used for the
    Subject of the post is too small, make it a little bigger and darker". Again, just standard English, no need to know a programming language.

    And if all that sounds like too much work - and I could understand if
    you thought it was - there is another solution recommended by Claude,
    namely Discourse, a free existing package that is apparently quite
    similar to Usenet in many ways but better. Claude said you could install that and have it up and running in a few hours.

    I'm just posting this here and now so that I don't forget and so that
    you have a starting point if we ever get to the point where Usenet
    actually looks like it is about to die OR if we get sick of the
    limitations of Usenet and opt to try a different way to get together to
    talk about our favourite TV shows (and all the other stuff we get into to).


    I was just trying to suggest what we might do to stay together if Usenet finally goes the way of the dodo. Your criticisms are well-taken. I
    apologize for wasting your time.

    If Usenet ever does go down the tubes, I hope someone will take the
    initiative to keep the group together by one or another of the various alternatives. Maybe we could do some kind of encryption so we're still
    free to speak frankly?

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nyssa@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 17:40:13 2026
    BTR1701 wrote:

    On Apr 30, 2026 at 11:33:46 AM PDT, "Nyssa"
    <Nyssa@logicalinsight.net> wrote:

    Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is
    going to be around given how so many newsgroups are
    dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam for a while.
    The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as
    the proverbial writing on the wall.

    I had a chat with Claude.AI about the possibility of
    writing some kind of replacement for Usenet that would
    still let groups like rec.arts.tv function but with
    improvements, like being able to have more control over
    the formatting of posts, imbed pictures or videos
    directly in posts, block cross-posting, etc. and was
    told we could custom-code something like that
    relatively easily.

    Basically, the process would look like "Hey Claude, I
    want to build a web-based alternative to Usenet so that
    any existing Usenet groups that want to carry on could
    do so outside of Usenet on pretty much the same basis.
    Make some improvements though: we want to be able to
    add attachments of photos or videos to our posts rather
    than having to point to them elsewhere via links. We
    want to keep spam and cross-posts out. We want to be
    able to have more control over the formatting of posts,
    like colours and fonts. Use any programming language
    you like. Use only free services so it doesn't cost
    anyone anything. Go!" In other words, you wouldn't have
    to have coding skills to drive the process and Claude
    would write all of the code and deploy what you've
    written to somewhere so that you could test the result,
    then direct it to make changes for anything that you
    didn't like. For example: "the font used for the
    Subject of the post is too small, make it a little
    bigger and darker". Again, just standard English, no
    need to know a programming language.

    And if all that sounds like too much work - and I could
    understand if you thought it was - there is another
    solution recommended by Claude, namely Discourse, a
    free existing package that is apparently quite similar
    to Usenet in many ways but better. Claude said you
    could install that and have it up and running in a few
    hours.

    I'm just posting this here and now so that I don't
    forget and so that you have a starting point if we ever
    get to the point where Usenet actually looks like it is
    about to die OR if we get sick of the limitations of
    Usenet and opt to try a different way to get together
    to talk about our favourite TV shows (and all the other
    stuff we get into to).


    So what you'd end up with is Yet Another Web Forum.

    Who registers the domain name for this creature? Pays
    for the web hosting service? Would there be moderators
    for it?

    That's the real question. Any and all web forums engage in
    censorship. Even if the folks running it have an anything
    goes philosophy, there are more and more laws that
    *require* moderation and censorship. Even if American
    authorities don't come after you, the European Union
    certainly will since it apparently believes it has the
    right to police the internet for no-no words worldwide.

    Usenet is unique in its decentralization which allows it
    to be the last bastion where people can speak their minds
    without having a moderator ban them or a government come
    arrest them.

    I've been on Usenet since the mid-1980s. I have always
    liked that it *doesn't* have all the overhead and glitz
    of embedded images, videos, and other distractions.
    Ditto for any fancy fonts, colored text, and other
    content-null add-ons.

    Agreed. Make any forum more than text-only and you'll end
    up with nothing but post after post of dancing emojis and
    the same old reaction memes posted over and over again. We
    have an entire generation developing that can't type a
    coherent sentence and speaks in little pictures. We're
    de-evolving back to hieroglyphics.

    Nyssa, who knows a gaggle of programming languages, but
    has no interest in reinventing a wheel that already
    works

    The wheel works but it's pointless if no one uses it,
    which sadly, seems to be the case with Usenet these days.

    And therein lies the problem.

    Usenet and its current software and distribution network
    is just fine as it is, The problem is the lack of new
    contributors/posters due to the lure of the commerical
    "social" networks with their bling and like buttons plus
    the invitable ageing out or dying off of Usenet mavens.

    Just adding colored text or images to a web-based pseudo
    Usenet does not mean that there would be an increase in
    people using it and adding to the Usenet population.
    Most of 'em wouldn't know what to do without those like
    buttons anyway.

    Remember how the signal to noise ratio dropped off when
    the AOL folks were given access to Usenet? I vote for
    quality over quantity of posters and their posts. I
    would welcome new posters, but not at the cost of
    redesigning Usenet to look and act more like Facebook.
    It would be like what's happening in the UK where the
    newcomers expect the current population to adapt to
    *them* rather than to learn to respect the current
    culture that is Usenet.

    I understand Rhino's desire for an emergency plan to
    allow us to have an alternative place to meet in case
    Usenet evaporates someday, but the alternate universe
    he described simply wouldn't be Usenet anymore, warts
    and all.

    Nyssa, who also agrees with BTR's reminder about our
    freewheeling discussions probably being unwelcome and
    possibly considered unlawful by a lot of the world that
    doesn't have an equivalent of the US 1st amendment


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 18:21:19 2026
    Verily, in article <10t07af$smmd$1@dont-email.me>, did Nyssa@logicalinsight.net deliver unto us this message:
    I've been on Usenet since the mid-1980s. I have always
    liked that it *doesn't* have all the overhead and glitz
    of embedded images, videos, and other distractions.
    Ditto for any fancy fonts, colored text, and other
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 18:24:30 2026
    Verily, in article <10t08b6$sqmv$3@dont-email.me>, did atropos@mac.com
    deliver unto us this message:
    The wheel works but it's pointless if no one uses it, which sadly, seems to be
    the case with Usenet these days.


    Talk it up. When I see people complaining that the mainstream Internet
    is getting worse and worse, I remind them Usenet' still here. I only do
    that with good people, of course. Not everyone used to controlled modern
    forums could handle Usenet.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 18:25:42 2026
    Verily, in article <10t09iv$o1ml$2@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    If Usenet ever does go down the tubes, I hope someone will take the initiative to keep the group together by one or another of the various alternatives. Maybe we could do some kind of encryption so we're still
    free to speak frankly?


    How about a mailing list? It's simple, and encrypted email is hard to
    monitor.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 18:57:32 2026
    On 2026-04-30 6:21 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t07af$smmd$1@dont-email.me>, did Nyssa@logicalinsight.net deliver unto us this message:
    I've been on Usenet since the mid-1980s. I have always
    liked that it *doesn't* have all the overhead and glitz
    of embedded images, videos, and other distractions.
    Ditto for any fancy fonts, colored text, and other
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    I had a look at Reddit last year and thought it might be a good place to
    ask coding questions. I didn't get their model at all. I joined up,
    found a suitable area to ask a question but had no way to ask. Their
    model seems to call for you to hang around for a while until people can
    form an impression of you and only if you pass scrutiny they might let
    you ask a question. Did I misunderstand the process?

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 19:03:09 2026
    On 2026-04-30 6:25 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t09iv$o1ml$2@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    If Usenet ever does go down the tubes, I hope someone will take the
    initiative to keep the group together by one or another of the various
    alternatives. Maybe we could do some kind of encryption so we're still
    free to speak frankly?


    How about a mailing list? It's simple, and encrypted email is hard to monitor.


    Would every post go to everyone on the mailing list then? That would
    feel like forcing conversations on people. At least with Usenet I can
    choose which post to engage with based on the title and/or poster.

    Not trying to be negative, it would have some positive aspects too like
    better privacy through encryption. (Then again, isn't it law that you
    can't use encryption schemes unless the government has a backdoor into
    that scheme? If that's true, they can read your words - and presumably
    track them back to you - if they really want to. I don't imagine they
    would use the back door unless they had reason to think you were part of
    a terrorist plot or something but maybe I'm too optimistic.)

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 19:26:18 2026
    Verily, in article <10t0mot$uhpf$2@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    On 2026-04-30 6:21 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    [quoted text muted]
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    I had a look at Reddit last year and thought it might be a good place to
    ask coding questions. I didn't get their model at all. I joined up,
    found a suitable area to ask a question but had no way to ask. Their
    model seems to call for you to hang around for a while until people can
    form an impression of you and only if you pass scrutiny they might let
    you ask a question. Did I misunderstand the process?


    That particular sub may have had a karma requirement. Many do, now that
    there are so many bots. Karma is the accumulated result of people
    upvoting and downvoting what you post, so subs require a minimum before they'll allow you. The easiest way to get karma is to participate in
    some free-for-all subs which have no karma requirement and go along with
    the thread consensus.

    Some subs have a lower karma threshold for commenting than for posting (starting a thread). That may be what you encountered.

    Is Stack Exchange still in good health?

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 19:49:58 2026
    Verily, in article <10t0n3d$uhpf$3@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:

    On 2026-04-30 6:25 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t09iv$o1ml$2@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    If Usenet ever does go down the tubes, I hope someone will take the
    initiative to keep the group together by one or another of the various
    alternatives. Maybe we could do some kind of encryption so we're still
    free to speak frankly?


    How about a mailing list? It's simple, and encrypted email is hard to monitor.


    Would every post go to everyone on the mailing list then? That would
    feel like forcing conversations on people. At least with Usenet I can
    choose which post to engage with based on the title and/or poster.

    Yes, I suppose. People would have to filter out things they didn't want.
    There is mailing list software to allow for more sophisticated
    configuration.

    Not trying to be negative, it would have some positive aspects too like better privacy through encryption. (Then again, isn't it law that you
    can't use encryption schemes unless the government has a backdoor into
    that scheme? If that's true, they can read your words - and presumably
    track them back to you - if they really want to. I don't imagine they
    would use the back door unless they had reason to think you were part of
    a terrorist plot or something but maybe I'm too optimistic.)

    I'm not an encryption expert, so I can't answer that.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 20:52:31 2026
    On 2026-04-30 7:26 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t0mot$uhpf$2@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    On 2026-04-30 6:21 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    [quoted text muted]
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    I had a look at Reddit last year and thought it might be a good place to
    ask coding questions. I didn't get their model at all. I joined up,
    found a suitable area to ask a question but had no way to ask. Their
    model seems to call for you to hang around for a while until people can
    form an impression of you and only if you pass scrutiny they might let
    you ask a question. Did I misunderstand the process?


    That particular sub may have had a karma requirement. Many do, now that
    there are so many bots. Karma is the accumulated result of people
    upvoting and downvoting what you post, so subs require a minimum before they'll allow you. The easiest way to get karma is to participate in
    some free-for-all subs which have no karma requirement and go along with
    the thread consensus.

    Some subs have a lower karma threshold for commenting than for posting (starting a thread). That may be what you encountered.

    Explanations for how to be allowed to post were distinctly lacking. I
    think I asked in the reddit where I wanted to post how I could be
    allowed to ask a question and someone said I would have to wait until
    they decided I was worthy. He may have mentioned karma points; I don't
    recall. Perhaps that's what he meant. He didn't explain it further, particularly how long this vetting might take, and I decided I could not
    be bothered. The whole thing just felt like some kind of exclusive
    social club that had a process to see if you were the right kind of
    person for their club. That offended by egalitarian nature and I left.
    You're the first person who mentioned being a Reddit user so I thought
    I'd ask you what was going on.

    Is Stack Exchange still in good health?


    I used it once recently and got a very big surprise. I asked a question
    about DateTimeFormatters as applied to the new Temporal objects in
    Javascript and found my question answered by someone from the TC39
    committee who'd written the code. It was a little bit like phoning
    Microsoft on some minor manner and having Bill Gates pick up! Not that
    I'd ever heard of the guy who helped me but he seemed higher up the food
    chain than I'd usually expect to meet.

    Aside from that though, I find myself asking Claude pretty much
    everything I want to know more about. :-)



    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 1 02:16:23 2026
    On Apr 30, 2026 at 3:57:32 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2026-04-30 6:21 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t07af$smmd$1@dont-email.me>, did
    Nyssa@logicalinsight.net deliver unto us this message:
    I've been on Usenet since the mid-1980s. I have always
    liked that it *doesn't* have all the overhead and glitz
    of embedded images, videos, and other distractions.
    Ditto for any fancy fonts, colored text, and other
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    I had a look at Reddit last year and thought it might be a good place to
    ask coding questions. I didn't get their model at all. I joined up,
    found a suitable area to ask a question but had no way to ask. Their
    model seems to call for you to hang around for a while until people can
    form an impression of you and only if you pass scrutiny they might let
    you ask a question. Did I misunderstand the process?

    No, I did the same thing. It let me make a comment but as soon as I did, I got an email telling me my comment had been deleted because I hadn't built up enough 'karma' to be worthy of speaking, whatever the hell that means.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Thu Apr 30 23:34:09 2026
    On 2026-04-30 10:16 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
    On Apr 30, 2026 at 3:57:32 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2026-04-30 6:21 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t07af$smmd$1@dont-email.me>, did
    Nyssa@logicalinsight.net deliver unto us this message:
    I've been on Usenet since the mid-1980s. I have always
    liked that it *doesn't* have all the overhead and glitz
    of embedded images, videos, and other distractions.
    Ditto for any fancy fonts, colored text, and other
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    I had a look at Reddit last year and thought it might be a good place to
    ask coding questions. I didn't get their model at all. I joined up,
    found a suitable area to ask a question but had no way to ask. Their
    model seems to call for you to hang around for a while until people can
    form an impression of you and only if you pass scrutiny they might let
    you ask a question. Did I misunderstand the process?

    No, I did the same thing. It let me make a comment but as soon as I did, I got
    an email telling me my comment had been deleted because I hadn't built up enough 'karma' to be worthy of speaking, whatever the hell that means.


    It beats me why they don't explain how that works to new users. I can't
    be the only person who was pissed off and left because of that....


    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 1 04:00:07 2026
    On Apr 30, 2026 at 8:34:09 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2026-04-30 10:16 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
    On Apr 30, 2026 at 3:57:32 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> >> wrote:

    On 2026-04-30 6:21 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t07af$smmd$1@dont-email.me>, did
    Nyssa@logicalinsight.net deliver unto us this message:
    I've been on Usenet since the mid-1980s. I have always
    liked that it *doesn't* have all the overhead and glitz
    of embedded images, videos, and other distractions.
    Ditto for any fancy fonts, colored text, and other
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    I had a look at Reddit last year and thought it might be a good place to >>> ask coding questions. I didn't get their model at all. I joined up,
    found a suitable area to ask a question but had no way to ask. Their
    model seems to call for you to hang around for a while until people can >>> form an impression of you and only if you pass scrutiny they might let
    you ask a question. Did I misunderstand the process?

    No, I did the same thing. It let me make a comment but as soon as I did, I >> got
    an email telling me my comment had been deleted because I hadn't built up >> enough 'karma' to be worthy of speaking, whatever the hell that means.


    It beats me why they don't explain how that works to new users. I can't
    be the only person who was pissed off and left because of that....

    This is what I'm talking about. Every single discussion forum on the web has some kind of ridiculous 'community guidelines' that are arbitrarily enforced
    by whoever owns the site based on what their politics and what they do and don't like. And most of the time the standards for participation is that you must be hard Left.

    The exTwitters have been comparatively okay since Elon took it over but even that has rules that are sometimes and enforced and sometimes not depending on the identity and politics of the 'offender'. And, of course, the fact that
    Elon doesn't censor exTwitter like a militant Stasi operative gets him threatened with everything from massive fines to actual criminal arrest by the UK and the EU.

    Nothing, and I mean nothing, like Usenet exists anywhere else on the internet. The fact that it's so sparsely populated these days is probably the only
    reason it still exists. If it were to suddenly become popular and well known, those government censors I mentioned above would probably ban it.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ed Stasiak@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 1 20:46:37 2026

    Rhino

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around
    given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial writing on the wall.

    The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the
    proverbial writing on the wall.

    I first went online with Windows 95 or 98 and after searching around for porn of course,
    I discovered DejaNews and thought "this is the coolest shit ever!" (after porn of course).

    Then Google bought up DejaNews and... pretty much abandoned it. I remember one had to
    click through half a dozen pages before accidentally stumbling over the link to GoogleGroups
    and there wasn't even an explanation for newbies as to what the hell it even was.

    Google really dropped the ball, as GoogleGroups was right at the start of "social media"
    but they did nothing to promote or even maintain their site and allowed it to gradually
    fall apart until just giving up and eliminating it.

    I'm really glad I got to be a part of the "golden age" of Usenet and got to know all of you
    for so many years.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From super70s@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 1 16:52:04 2026
    On 2026-05-01 00:52:31 +0000, Rhino said:

    On 2026-04-30 7:26 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t0mot$uhpf$2@dont-email.me>, did
    no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    On 2026-04-30 6:21 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    [quoted text muted]
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    I had a look at Reddit last year and thought it might be a good place to >>> ask coding questions. I didn't get their model at all. I joined up,
    found a suitable area to ask a question but had no way to ask. Their
    model seems to call for you to hang around for a while until people can
    form an impression of you and only if you pass scrutiny they might let
    you ask a question. Did I misunderstand the process?


    That particular sub may have had a karma requirement. Many do, now that
    there are so many bots. Karma is the accumulated result of people
    upvoting and downvoting what you post, so subs require a minimum before
    they'll allow you. The easiest way to get karma is to participate in
    some free-for-all subs which have no karma requirement and go along with
    the thread consensus.

    Some subs have a lower karma threshold for commenting than for posting
    (starting a thread). That may be what you encountered.

    Explanations for how to be allowed to post were distinctly lacking. I
    think I asked in the reddit where I wanted to post how I could be
    allowed to ask a question and someone said I would have to wait until
    they decided I was worthy. He may have mentioned karma points; I don't recall. Perhaps that's what he meant. He didn't explain it further, particularly how long this vetting might take, and I decided I could
    not be bothered. The whole thing just felt like some kind of exclusive social club that had a process to see if you were the right kind of
    person for their club. That offended by egalitarian nature and I left. You're the first person who mentioned being a Reddit user so I thought
    I'd ask you what was going on.

    Is Stack Exchange still in good health?


    I used it once recently and got a very big surprise. I asked a question about DateTimeFormatters as applied to the new Temporal objects in Javascript and found my question answered by someone from the TC39
    committee who'd written the code. It was a little bit like phoning
    Microsoft on some minor manner and having Bill Gates pick up! Not that
    I'd ever heard of the guy who helped me but he seemed higher up the
    food chain than I'd usually expect to meet.

    Aside from that though, I find myself asking Claude pretty much
    everything I want to know more about. :-)

    I'm on a Mac so any tech questions I have I just ask in the Usenet
    group comp.sys.mac.system, there's always some very knowledgeble Mac
    users in there who can help you with just about anything. StackExchange
    will come up in google results sometimes and I'll lurk on it for my
    question but I don't really like to post there -- it's too much like
    the "exclusive social club" you mention above that's too intimidating.

    I'm not a programmer like you but I have run a '70s music site for 30
    years now and sometimes have an occasional HTML question, the usenet
    group comp.sys.programming.html (or whatever the hell it's called, I
    post so seldom in there I can't even remember exactly) and a few other
    similar groups will have someone who can help you -- to a lesser extent
    than the Mac group.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Fri May 1 23:41:34 2026
    On 2026-05-01 5:52 p.m., super70s wrote:
    On 2026-05-01 00:52:31 +0000, Rhino said:

    On 2026-04-30 7:26 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t0mot$uhpf$2@dont-email.me>, did
    no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    On 2026-04-30 6:21 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    [quoted text muted]
    content-null add-ons.


    Just today, I was wishing Reddit had an option not to load images.

    I had a look at Reddit last year and thought it might be a good
    place to
    ask coding questions. I didn't get their model at all. I joined up,
    found a suitable area to ask a question but had no way to ask. Their
    model seems to call for you to hang around for a while until people can >>>> form an impression of you and only if you pass scrutiny they might let >>>> you ask a question. Did I misunderstand the process?


    That particular sub may have had a karma requirement. Many do, now that
    there are so many bots. Karma is the accumulated result of people
    upvoting and downvoting what you post, so subs require a minimum before
    they'll allow you. The easiest way to get karma is to participate in
    some free-for-all subs which have no karma requirement and go along with >>> the thread consensus.

    Some subs have a lower karma threshold for commenting than for posting
    (starting a thread). That may be what you encountered.

    Explanations for how to be allowed to post were distinctly lacking. I
    think I asked in the reddit where I wanted to post how I could be
    allowed to ask a question and someone said I would have to wait until
    they decided I was worthy. He may have mentioned karma points; I don't
    recall. Perhaps that's what he meant. He didn't explain it further,
    particularly how long this vetting might take, and I decided I could
    not be bothered. The whole thing just felt like some kind of exclusive
    social club that had a process to see if you were the right kind of
    person for their club. That offended by egalitarian nature and I left.
    You're the first person who mentioned being a Reddit user so I thought
    I'd ask you what was going on.

    Is Stack Exchange still in good health?


    I used it once recently and got a very big surprise. I asked a
    question about DateTimeFormatters as applied to the new Temporal
    objects in Javascript and found my question answered by someone from
    the TC39 committee who'd written the code. It was a little bit like
    phoning Microsoft on some minor manner and having Bill Gates pick up!
    Not that I'd ever heard of the guy who helped me but he seemed higher
    up the food chain than I'd usually expect to meet.

    Aside from that though, I find myself asking Claude pretty much
    everything I want to know more about. :-)

    I'm on a Mac so any tech questions I have I just ask in the Usenet group comp.sys.mac.system, there's always some very knowledgeble Mac users in there who can help you with just about anything. StackExchange will come
    up in google results sometimes and I'll lurk on it for my question but I don't really like to post there -- it's too much like the "exclusive
    social club" you mention above that's too intimidating.

    I don't find StackExchange snooty so much as really eager to find some
    excuse to disallow your question. I've lost track of how many times I
    posted a question and gone back a few minutes later to find that a
    moderator rejected it. They've definitely got more like that lately.
    It's like they're trying to find some excuse NOT to answer your
    question. For instance, if you ask for a recommendation for a program to
    do X or a course to learn Y, they insist that it's against the rules to recommend something as it would be an endorsement and hence unfair to competitors of whatever they might have recommended. But if you go into
    the chat room, you can ask there and they might be more helpful.>
    I'm not a programmer like you but I have run a '70s music site for 30
    years now and sometimes have an occasional HTML question, the usenet
    group comp.sys.programming.html (or whatever the hell it's called, I
    post so seldom in there I can't even remember exactly) and a few other similar groups will have someone who can help you -- to a lesser extent
    than the Mac group.



    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 10:31:03 2026
    Verily, in article <10t3rpe$1qcur$1@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    They've definitely got more like that lately.
    It's like they're trying to find some excuse NOT to answer your
    question. For instance, if you ask for a recommendation for a program to
    do X or a course to learn Y, they insist that it's against the rules to recommend something as it would be an endorsement and hence unfair to competitors of whatever they might have recommended.

    That's useless.

    For a while, Stack Exchange was the premier reference for language
    questions. I hear it's chaos now. alt.usage.english, on the other hand,
    is at least as erudite and still going strong.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ian J. Ball@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 08:36:42 2026
    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around
    given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit, because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it
    r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's model,
    it's unavoidable.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 15:09:19 2026
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just go to
    the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option
    to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it
    r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have moderator(s). That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's model, it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone volunteers.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 19:48:59 2026
    On May 2, 2026 at 12:09:19 PM PDT, "The True Melissa" <thetruemelissa@gmail.com> wrote:

    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around
    given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam >> > for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the >> > proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just go to
    the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option
    to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it
    r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's model, >> it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone volunteers.

    If you volunteer, but don't actually do any meaningful moderation, do they
    fire you?

    That's what I did on NextDoor. I got recommended to be a moderator and then, pursuant to my free expression philosophy, just let people talk about whatever they wanted, even if someone claimed to be offended by it. After about six months, I ended up getting fired as a moderator by NextDoor corporate because
    I wasn't censoring people enough. They literally told me that they keep
    metrics on how many complaints are upheld, how many warnings and suspensions are given out, etc., and said that I was an utter failure as a censor so they were revoking my status as a moderator. I then went on to receive a string of 30-day suspensions myself for posting-while-conservative. I haven't bothered
    to log back on after my last suspension ran out back before Christmas.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 16:39:47 2026
    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around
    given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam >>> for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the
    proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just go to
    the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option
    to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it
    r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's model,
    it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of
    setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden
    and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure
    the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth
    the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee
    would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 20:43:58 2026
    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

    . . .

    If you volunteer, but don't actually do any meaningful moderation, do they >fire you?

    That's what I did on NextDoor. I got recommended to be a moderator and then, >pursuant to my free expression philosophy, just let people talk about whatever >they wanted, even if someone claimed to be offended by it. After about six >months, I ended up getting fired as a moderator by NextDoor corporate because >I wasn't censoring people enough. They literally told me that they keep >metrics on how many complaints are upheld, how many warnings and suspensions >are given out, etc., and said that I was an utter failure as a censor so they >were revoking my status as a moderator. I then went on to receive a string of >30-day suspensions myself for posting-while-conservative. I haven't bothered >to log back on after my last suspension ran out back before Christmas.

    Not being able to get in touch with your inner moviePig is a sign of
    tolerance for what other people might say, not utter failure.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 16:53:19 2026
    Verily, in article <10t5kfb$2d70g$2@dont-email.me>, did atropos@mac.com deliver unto us this message:
    If you volunteer, but don't actually do any meaningful moderation, do they fire you?

    No, you can mostly run your sub how you like, but there are overall
    Reddit rules everyone must follow in every sub. Your sub can be removed
    if it's suspected of allowing such stuff on purpose. That doesn't just
    mean CP or something. They removed some political subs which got too vitriolic, for example, and they've removed other subs they've deemed
    hate groups. It's not a total free speech platform.


    That's what I did on NextDoor. I got recommended to be a moderator and then, pursuant to my free expression philosophy, just let people talk about whatever
    they wanted, even if someone claimed to be offended by it. After about six months, I ended up getting fired as a moderator by NextDoor corporate because I wasn't censoring people enough. They literally told me that they keep metrics on how many complaints are upheld, how many warnings and suspensions are given out, etc., and said that I was an utter failure as a censor so they were revoking my status as a moderator. I then went on to receive a string of 30-day suspensions myself for posting-while-conservative. I haven't bothered to log back on after my last suspension ran out back before Christmas.

    I believe it. A lot of conversation places have overall rules of conduct
    and even expect the volunteer mods to enforce them.

    If Reddit does dislike the political stuff, then it'll lock or remove
    the sub without warning. It doesn't want extreme/violent/hateful content
    from either side, but it is harsher on conservatives.

    A mailing list still seems like the best option to me. I don't know how
    many people would sign up, but if you pledged to use it only if Usenet
    dies, I could see some people signing up.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 17:01:20 2026
    Verily, in article <10t5nej$26o15$1@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:

    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around
    given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam >>> for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the >>> proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just go to the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option
    to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it
    r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's model, >> it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of
    setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden
    and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure
    the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth
    the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee
    would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    For backup and balance, you'd want a team of at least three mods.
    There's always one head mod, though. Mods have power in order of
    seniority according to when they became mods.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 17:12:28 2026
    On 2026-05-02 5:01 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t5nej$26o15$1@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:

    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around >>>>> given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam >>>>> for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the >>>>> proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure out >>>> how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just go to >>> the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option
    to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it
    r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have moderator(s). >>>> That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's model, >>>> it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone
    volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate
    matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of
    setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden
    and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure
    the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth
    the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee
    would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    For backup and balance, you'd want a team of at least three mods.
    There's always one head mod, though. Mods have power in order of
    seniority according to when they became mods.

    Then there'd probably be disputes between moderators if one moderator's
    ruling got challenged by the victim. You'd probably need the ability to
    appeal to the whole group of moderators in case one moderator ruled in a
    way you didn't like. Then something akin to political parties would
    emerge with specific moderators being on one side of particular issues
    and the other(s) being on the other side. And so on down the slippery
    slope. It wouldn't happen overnight but I'd be surprised if it didn't
    happen eventually.

    I'm beginning to regret even raising the question of what to do if
    Usenet every dies. The options all seem to have the potential to be
    worse than what we have now.

    It also occurs to me that Usenet may be unkillable by its very nature.
    What would have to happen for Usenet to die? No particular person or
    company owns it so it's not like there's an owner that can pull the plug.

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From super70s@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 16:43:50 2026
    On 2026-05-02 21:12:28 +0000, Rhino said:

    On 2026-05-02 5:01 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t5nej$26o15$1@dont-email.me>, did
    no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:

    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around >>>>>> given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in spam >>>>>> for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the >>>>>> proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure out >>>>> how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just go to >>>> the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option >>>> to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it >>>>> r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have moderator(s). >>>>> That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's model, >>>>> it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone
    volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate
    matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of
    setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden
    and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure
    the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth
    the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee
    would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    For backup and balance, you'd want a team of at least three mods.
    There's always one head mod, though. Mods have power in order of
    seniority according to when they became mods.

    Then there'd probably be disputes between moderators if one moderator's ruling got challenged by the victim. You'd probably need the ability to appeal to the whole group of moderators in case one moderator ruled in
    a way you didn't like. Then something akin to political parties would
    emerge with specific moderators being on one side of particular issues
    and the other(s) being on the other side. And so on down the slippery
    slope. It wouldn't happen overnight but I'd be surprised if it didn't
    happen eventually.

    I'm beginning to regret even raising the question of what to do if
    Usenet every dies. The options all seem to have the potential to be
    worse than what we have now.

    It also occurs to me that Usenet may be unkillable by its very nature.
    What would have to happen for Usenet to die? No particular person or
    company owns it so it's not like there's an owner that can pull the
    plug.

    I think a lot of whether you use Usenet has to do with how long you've
    been doing home computing in general.

    Back in the early '90s in my pre-internet days I used local BBS's which
    was the only way to interact with the outside world (this was done on
    my Mac with an app called ZTerm; there were probably several of them
    for the PC). One of the BBS's had a gateway to Usenet which is how I
    first discovered it.

    When I got on the net in 1995 I looked for a Usenet app to include in
    my suite of internet apps, including web browser, email, FTP, IRC chat, Hotline (for private servers), and even the humble gopher, lol. The Mac
    Usenet app du jour was NewsWatcher, which was one of the best Usenet
    apps ever developed for any platform.

    But younger generations coming on the net never had any exposure to
    Usenet and don't even know anything about it other than the Deja
    Vu/Google Groups connection. Now even Google Groups is defunct (other
    than the archive) so it's just not something that could continue to
    thrive.

    I don't suppose Usenet could ever "die" unless all the servers like
    Eternal September, Solani, etc. decide to close their doors.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 17:49:16 2026
    Verily, in article <10t5pbs$26o15$3@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:

    On 2026-05-02 5:01 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    [re Reddit as a backup for RATV]

    For backup and balance, you'd want a team of at least three mods.
    There's always one head mod, though. Mods have power in order of
    seniority according to when they became mods.

    Then there'd probably be disputes between moderators if one moderator's ruling got challenged by the victim. You'd probably need the ability to appeal to the whole group of moderators in case one moderator ruled in a
    way you didn't like.

    You do. It's called modmail. Every moderator can see the messages sent
    to modmail.


    I'm beginning to regret even raising the question of what to do if
    Usenet every dies. The options all seem to have the potential to be
    worse than what we have now.

    It also occurs to me that Usenet may be unkillable by its very nature.
    What would have to happen for Usenet to die? No particular person or
    company owns it so it's not like there's an owner that can pull the plug.

    A beautiful thought, but it does need sites to host it and major sites
    to transmit it.

    Would you return to dialing up a BBS to read Usenet?

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ian J. Ball@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 14:55:10 2026
    On 5/2/26 1:39 PM, Rhino wrote:

    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:
    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around
    given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched in
    spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me as the >>>> proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just go to
    the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option
    to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it
    r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's model, >>> it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone
    volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of
    setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden
    and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure
    the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth
    the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee
    would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    The main thing I'd want out of a moderator is to keep stuff on-topic.
    (Just this alone would keep people like Trotsky/FPP out.) There's a lot
    of "general" discussion here that belongs somewhere else than in a TV
    group.

    I also don't know how good Reddit is at keeping spam out - that as much
    as anything has probably killed Usenet for the general public (as most
    don't know about kill-files and probably couldn't figure out how to
    operate one). But this gets back to keeping posts on topic.

    But I was much more enthusiastic about this prospect maybe 5 years ago.
    Now I watch so little TV that while I would probably read a TV-focused
    Reddit that was better than r/television (which I have totally abandoned
    now), I am not sure how much I would be contributing.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ian J. Ball@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 14:58:08 2026
    On 5/2/26 2:12 PM, Rhino wrote:

    On 2026-05-02 5:01 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t5nej$26o15$1@dont-email.me>, did
    no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:
    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around >>>>>> given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched
    in spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me
    as the
    proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure >>>>> out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just
    go to
    the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option >>>> to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it >>>>> r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have
    moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's
    model,
    it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone
    volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate
    matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of
    setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden
    and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure
    the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth
    the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee
    would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    For backup and balance, you'd want a team of at least three mods.
    There's always one head mod, though. Mods have power in order of
    seniority according to when they became mods.

    Then there'd probably be disputes between moderators if one moderator's ruling got challenged by the victim. You'd probably need the ability to appeal to the whole group of moderators in case one moderator ruled in a
    way you didn't like. Then something akin to political parties would
    emerge with specific moderators being on one side of particular issues
    and the other(s) being on the other side. And so on down the slippery
    slope. It wouldn't happen overnight but I'd be surprised if it didn't
    happen eventually.

    I'm beginning to regret even raising the question of what to do if
    Usenet every dies. The options all seem to have the potential to be
    worse than what we have now.

    It also occurs to me that Usenet may be unkillable by its very nature.
    What would have to happen for Usenet to die? No particular person or
    company owns it so it's not like there's an owner that can pull the plug.

    Usenet dies when there are no servers to propagate message anymore. I
    think that will happen eventually. Right now it feels like Usenet
    survives through a patchwork of servers kept running by hobbyists (as
    the Usenet "providers" all seem to have mostly folded). And those
    hobbyists seem to be dying off every few years.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 18:09:49 2026
    Verily, in article <10t5rru$2f9ti$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    The main thing I'd want out of a moderator is to keep stuff on-topic.
    (Just this alone would keep people like Trotsky/FPP out.) There's a lot
    of "general" discussion here that belongs somewhere else than in a TV
    group.

    I also don't know how good Reddit is at keeping spam out - that as much
    as anything has probably killed Usenet for the general public (as most
    don't know about kill-files and probably couldn't figure out how to
    operate one). But this gets back to keeping posts on topic.

    It's decent at keeping spam out, but bots are free to play. Many sources estimate that bots now make up more than half of Reddit.


    But I was much more enthusiastic about this prospect maybe 5 years ago.
    Now I watch so little TV that while I would probably read a TV-focused Reddit that was better than r/television (which I have totally abandoned now), I am not sure how much I would be contributing.

    I want to stay on Usenet, personally. If Usenet dies, I think a mailing
    list would be more appropriate as backup. Like Usenet, it's not owned or controlled by any corporation.


    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 20:38:43 2026
    Verily, in article <10t5s1g$2f9ti$2@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 5/2/26 2:12 PM, Rhino wrote:

    On 2026-05-02 5:01 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t5nej$26o15$1@dont-email.me>, did
    no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:
    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around >>>>>> given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched >>>>>> in spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me >>>>>> as the
    proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure >>>>> out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just
    go to
    the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option >>>> to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it >>>>> r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have
    moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's >>>>> model,
    it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone >>>> volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate >>> matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of
    setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden
    and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure
    the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth >>> the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee
    would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    For backup and balance, you'd want a team of at least three mods.
    There's always one head mod, though. Mods have power in order of
    seniority according to when they became mods.

    Then there'd probably be disputes between moderators if one moderator's ruling got challenged by the victim. You'd probably need the ability to appeal to the whole group of moderators in case one moderator ruled in a way you didn't like. Then something akin to political parties would
    emerge with specific moderators being on one side of particular issues
    and the other(s) being on the other side. And so on down the slippery slope. It wouldn't happen overnight but I'd be surprised if it didn't happen eventually.

    I'm beginning to regret even raising the question of what to do if
    Usenet every dies. The options all seem to have the potential to be
    worse than what we have now.

    It also occurs to me that Usenet may be unkillable by its very nature. What would have to happen for Usenet to die? No particular person or company owns it so it's not like there's an owner that can pull the plug.

    Usenet dies when there are no servers to propagate message anymore. I
    think that will happen eventually. Right now it feels like Usenet
    survives through a patchwork of servers kept running by hobbyists (as
    the Usenet "providers" all seem to have mostly folded). And those
    hobbyists seem to be dying off every few years.

    What can we do?

    Do we need younger people setting up new servers?

    Getting the university population back on would bring the right kind of people. I don't know if that could escape corporate interest, though.

    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Your Name@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 14:03:36 2026
    On 2026-05-03 00:38:43 +0000, The True Melissa said:

    Verily, in article <10t5s1g$2f9ti$2@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 5/2/26 2:12 PM, Rhino wrote:

    On 2026-05-02 5:01 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t5nej$26o15$1@dont-email.me>, did
    no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:
    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around >>>>>>>> given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched >>>>>>>> in spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me >>>>>>>> as the
    proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure >>>>>>> out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just >>>>>> go to
    the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option >>>>>> to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it >>>>>>> r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have
    moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's >>>>>>> model,
    it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone >>>>>> volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate >>>>> matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of >>>>> setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden >>>>> and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure >>>>> the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth >>>>> the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee >>>>> would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    For backup and balance, you'd want a team of at least three mods.
    There's always one head mod, though. Mods have power in order of
    seniority according to when they became mods.

    Then there'd probably be disputes between moderators if one moderator's
    ruling got challenged by the victim. You'd probably need the ability to
    appeal to the whole group of moderators in case one moderator ruled in a >>> way you didn't like. Then something akin to political parties would
    emerge with specific moderators being on one side of particular issues
    and the other(s) being on the other side. And so on down the slippery
    slope. It wouldn't happen overnight but I'd be surprised if it didn't
    happen eventually.

    I'm beginning to regret even raising the question of what to do if
    Usenet every dies. The options all seem to have the potential to be
    worse than what we have now.

    It also occurs to me that Usenet may be unkillable by its very nature.
    What would have to happen for Usenet to die? No particular person or
    company owns it so it's not like there's an owner that can pull the plug. >>
    Usenet dies when there are no servers to propagate message anymore. I
    think that will happen eventually. Right now it feels like Usenet
    survives through a patchwork of servers kept running by hobbyists (as
    the Usenet "providers" all seem to have mostly folded). And those
    hobbyists seem to be dying off every few years.

    What can we do?

    Do we need younger people setting up new servers?

    Getting the university population back on would bring the right kind of people. I don't know if that could escape corporate interest, though.

    I'm not sure that the servers run by a few big names like Eternal
    September can be called "hobbyists". :-)



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 00:01:20 2026

    On 2026-05-02 8:38 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t5s1g$2f9ti$2@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:

    On 5/2/26 2:12 PM, Rhino wrote:

    On 2026-05-02 5:01 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t5nej$26o15$1@dont-email.me>, did
    no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    On 2026-05-02 3:09 p.m., The True Melissa wrote:
    Verily, in article <10t55ma$28g6l$1@dont-email.me>, did
    ijball@mac.invalid deliver unto us this message:
    On 4/30/26 7:10 AM, Rhino wrote:

    I've been worrying about how much longer Usenet is going to be around >>>>>>>> given how so many newsgroups are dead and/or absolutely drenched >>>>>>>> in spam
    for a while. The disappearance of Google Groups really struck me >>>>>>>> as the
    proverbial writing on the wall.

    The answer is Reddit, IMO. I just have never had the time to figure >>>>>>> out
    how to set up a (new) Reddit,

    That is utterly trivial. People have done it by accident. :-) Just >>>>>> go to
    the URL it would be at if it existed, and you'll be offered the option >>>>>> to create it.

    because r/television absolutely sucks. You
    want to set up a kind of smallish general television Reddit (call it >>>>>>> r/RATV or something...) and let everyone here know about it.

    What would be different, of course, is that it would have
    moderator(s).
    That's a double-edged sword, of course. But I think with Reddit's >>>>>>> model,
    it's unavoidable.

    Yes, it is. Groups with no active moderators are locked until someone >>>>>> volunteers.

    As a believer in democracy, I think there should be an election to
    choose a moderator (or moderator team if we feel the need to complicate >>>>> matters). I know who I'd nominate but I don't relish the prospect of >>>>> setting the rules for what's to be allowed and what's to be forbidden >>>>> and I don't know if my nominee would even *want* the job. I feel sure >>>>> the moderator would get criticism from some and that might not be worth >>>>> the grief for the person I have in mind. But I'm not sure my nominee >>>>> would forbid *anything* so that might be a moot point. ;-)

    For backup and balance, you'd want a team of at least three mods.
    There's always one head mod, though. Mods have power in order of
    seniority according to when they became mods.

    Then there'd probably be disputes between moderators if one moderator's
    ruling got challenged by the victim. You'd probably need the ability to
    appeal to the whole group of moderators in case one moderator ruled in a >>> way you didn't like. Then something akin to political parties would
    emerge with specific moderators being on one side of particular issues
    and the other(s) being on the other side. And so on down the slippery
    slope. It wouldn't happen overnight but I'd be surprised if it didn't
    happen eventually.

    I'm beginning to regret even raising the question of what to do if
    Usenet every dies. The options all seem to have the potential to be
    worse than what we have now.

    It also occurs to me that Usenet may be unkillable by its very nature.
    What would have to happen for Usenet to die? No particular person or
    company owns it so it's not like there's an owner that can pull the plug. >>
    Usenet dies when there are no servers to propagate message anymore. I
    think that will happen eventually. Right now it feels like Usenet
    survives through a patchwork of servers kept running by hobbyists (as
    the Usenet "providers" all seem to have mostly folded). And those
    hobbyists seem to be dying off every few years.

    What can we do?

    Do we need younger people setting up new servers?

    Getting the university population back on would bring the right kind of people. I don't know if that could escape corporate interest, though.

    Technically, I don't imagine it would be too hard to set up a Usenet
    service like Eternal September but it's got to cost something
    significant to store billions of posts, many of which are spam. Storage, whether on hard drives or the cloud, seems to get cheaper all the time
    but it's definitely not free, except in very small amounts. You also
    need one or two people to run the server and potentially service the
    hardware. You *might* find volunteers to do that but if you can't,
    you're going to have to pay them.

    Obviously, you could charge people to cover the cost of the storage and
    any staff but that's going to drive away a lot of the people who are
    used to getting Usenet for free, although some might pay if the
    alternative is not having Usenet.

    I may be wrong in what I've said in some details but I don't think I'm
    way off either. Nevertheless, I just asked Claude and he/it said this:

    ========================================================================= That's a fun question ? Usenet is one of the internet's great survivors,
    still quietly running decades after most people assumed it had died.
    Your instinct about storage being the dominant cost is correct, but let
    me think through the full picture:

    Storage
    The full Usenet feed ? especially binary newsgroups ? is enormous.
    Text-only groups are manageable but binaries (where most of the volume
    is) run to petabytes in aggregate retention. A server focusing only on
    text groups would be far more feasible for a small operation, and
    honestly text is where the interesting conversations happen anyway.

    Bandwidth
    Possibly as significant as storage. Usenet runs on the NNTP protocol and servers peer with each other, meaning you're constantly sending and
    receiving the full feed from your peers. Bandwidth costs at that scale
    are substantial and ongoing.

    Hardware
    Fast storage (SSDs for indexes at minimum, spinning disk for article
    bodies) and enough RAM to handle concurrent connections. Not exotic but
    not trivial either.

    Peering agreements
    A new server needs peers willing to exchange feeds with it. This could
    be a chicken-and-egg problem ? established providers may not want to
    peer with an unknown operator, especially one running on a shoestring.
    This might actually be the hardest non-financial hurdle.

    Spam and abuse moderation
    Usenet has always had a spam problem. Some human attention and automated filtering tools are necessary, which is where your volunteer staff would
    earn their keep.

    The selective approach
    A server carrying only text groups, with reasonable retention, could
    probably be run surprisingly cheaply compared to a full-feed provider.
    That might be the realistic model for a community-maintained fallback.

    =========================================================================

    So, clearly I missed a few things. But the answer is that it might be
    feasible for a smallish group, provided you didn't try to keep binaries,
    at which point storage costs would skyrocket. I suspect that's what
    Eternal September does. I also had a second conversation (not reproduced
    here) about the possibility of using AIs to filter out the spam so that storage needs would be hugely reduced and was told that should be
    possible. (It would also be possible to keep all the spam and then let
    the individual user apply a spam filter of his choice in actually
    screening posts before you see them.)

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 10:16:35 2026
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    Technically, I don't imagine it would be too hard to set up a Usenet
    service like Eternal September but it's got to cost something
    significant to store billions of posts, many of which are spam.

    It's incredibly hard. For one thing, eternal-september uses a two-server
    model, one that is exposed to Usenet to receive the raw feed, and the
    other that's used to read from after the spam countermeasures were
    deployed. Usenet is unreadable without spam countermeasures. Depending
    on the type of abuse being addressed, there are different filters. Ray
    actually had to adapt a filter used for email to Usenet, SpamAssasin, in
    order to counter many of the attacks that Cleanfeed wasn't designed to
    address during the massive attack upon Usenet through Google Groups a
    few years ago. There was a small group that countered the attack but Ray
    took the lead.

    You cannot simply be a News administrator without spending significant
    time countering bad actors. There are just a handful but they cause a
    hell of a lot of trouble, trying to ruin things for everyone else.
    Usenet is especially vulnerable.

    I'm not addressing your other points with which I agree.

    . . .

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 06:41:54 2026
    Verily, in article <10t6hah$2i81d$4@dont-email.me>, did no_offline_contact@example.com deliver unto us this message:
    Technically, I don't imagine it would be too hard to set up a Usenet
    service like Eternal September but it's got to cost something
    significant to store billions of posts, many of which are spam.

    I would love to do something like this, but I don't want to do it alone.

    Would spam need to be stored? Why not just drop it on the floor?


    Obviously, you could charge people to cover the cost of the storage and
    any staff but that's going to drive away a lot of the people who are
    used to getting Usenet for free, although some might pay if the
    alternative is not having Usenet.

    A server doesn't have to carry all the hierarchies. If I set one up, I'd probably only do the text groups. I'm okay with binaries if I have tons
    of storage, but if I don't, the user network itself can still be
    carried.


    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The True Melissa@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 06:55:56 2026
    Verily, in article <10t77a3$2qb4n$1@dont-email.me>, did ahk@chinet.com
    deliver unto us this message:

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    Technically, I don't imagine it would be too hard to set up a Usenet >service like Eternal September but it's got to cost something
    significant to store billions of posts, many of which are spam.

    It's incredibly hard. For one thing, eternal-september uses a two-server model, one that is exposed to Usenet to receive the raw feed, and the
    other that's used to read from after the spam countermeasures were
    deployed. Usenet is unreadable without spam countermeasures.

    Yeah, that does make sense. It was built before anyone realized people
    would do that. I still remember the shocked outrage over the first Green
    Card Spam.


    Depending
    on the type of abuse being addressed, there are different filters. Ray actually had to adapt a filter used for email to Usenet, SpamAssasin, in order to counter many of the attacks that Cleanfeed wasn't designed to address during the massive attack upon Usenet through Google Groups a
    few years ago. There was a small group that countered the attack but Ray
    took the lead.

    That man's a hero. I should give him more money.


    You cannot simply be a News administrator without spending significant
    time countering bad actors. There are just a handful but they cause a
    hell of a lot of trouble, trying to ruin things for everyone else.
    Usenet is especially vulnerable.

    Hmm. I'm not sure I'd be effective at that.




    --
    The True Melissa - Canal Winchester - Ohio
    United States of America - North America - Earth
    Solar System - Milky Way - Local Group
    Virgo Cluster - Laniakea Supercluster - Cosmos

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)