• Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wo

    From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Tue Apr 28 16:43:54 2026
    Subject: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    This didn't make national news but I'm absolutely disgusted by the
    shooting of two police officers, one dead, the other seriously wounded.
    They were shot at a hospital by the man they took into custody. He'd
    committed a robbery but took a bundle of cash with a tracker in it so
    police were able to find him.

    Authorities are, of course, emphasizing the out-of-state gun purchaae by
    a straw buyer because the perpetrator had a long rap sheet. The
    purchaser is being prosecuted under federal law.

    Kind of missing the point. He had been taken into custody, so why
    exactly did he still have a gun on his person? He had been taken to
    hospital for a CT scan as he claimed to have swallowed drugs. He was on
    a gurney, and I suspect he was naked except for the hospital gown. He
    hid the gun under a blanket, grabbing it as soon as handcuffs were
    removed for the scan.

    That shooting should have never occurred.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/04/27/police-hospital-shooting-charges/ https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2026/04/27/suspect-charged-in-swedish-hospital-shooting-that-left-1-cop-dead-and-another-fighting-for-his-life-source

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Wed Apr 29 08:58:14 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On 2026-04-28 12:43 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    This didn't make national news but I'm absolutely disgusted by the
    shooting of two police officers, one dead, the other seriously wounded.
    They were shot at a hospital by the man they took into custody. He'd committed a robbery but took a bundle of cash with a tracker in it so
    police were able to find him.

    Authorities are, of course, emphasizing the out-of-state gun purchaae by
    a straw buyer because the perpetrator had a long rap sheet. The
    purchaser is being prosecuted under federal law.

    Kind of missing the point. He had been taken into custody, so why
    exactly did he still have a gun on his person? He had been taken to
    hospital for a CT scan as he claimed to have swallowed drugs. He was on
    a gurney, and I suspect he was naked except for the hospital gown. He
    hid the gun under a blanket, grabbing it as soon as handcuffs were
    removed for the scan.

    That shooting should have never occurred.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/04/27/police-hospital-shooting-charges/ https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2026/04/27/suspect-charged-in-swedish-hospital-shooting-that-left-1-cop-dead-and-another-fighting-for-his-life-source

    There was actually a somewhat similar incident in Toronto maybe two or
    three years ago. A man was taken into custody by police, handcuffed, and
    put in the back of a police car to be transported to the lockup. During
    the trip, he somehow contorted himself and was in the process of digging
    out a gun that must have been secreted on his person. I don't remember
    if he managed to get a shot off but I believe he had gotten the gun out
    before the officer driving the car managed to overcome him. In any case,
    the officer was not shot but it was a very near thing. I never heard
    about any inquiry into this but I have to assume the suspect was either
    not patted down or was not patted down thoroughly. I have to imagine
    this incident scared the bejesus out of the officer driving the car and
    led to some serious review of procedures at the next few roll calls.

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 17:31:16 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    This didn't make national news but I'm absolutely disgusted by the
    shooting of two police officers, one dead, the other seriously wounded.
    They were shot at a hospital by the man they took into custody. He'd >committed a robbery but took a bundle of cash with a tracker in it so
    police were able to find him.

    Authorities are, of course, emphasizing the out-of-state gun purchaae by
    a straw buyer because the perpetrator had a long rap sheet. The
    purchaser is being prosecuted under federal law.

    Kind of missing the point. He had been taken into custody, so why
    exactly did he still have a gun on his person? He had been taken to
    hospital for a CT scan as he claimed to have swallowed drugs. He was on
    a gurney, and I suspect he was naked except for the hospital gown. He
    hid the gun under a blanket, grabbing it as soon as handcuffs were
    removed for the scan.

    That shooting should have never occurred.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/04/27/police-hospital-shooting-charges/ >https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2026/04/27/suspect-charged-in-swedish-hospital-shooting-that-left-1-cop-dead-and-another-fighting-for-his-life-source

    New revelations are so much worse, I'm thinking of entering it into the periodic race to the bottom contest with BTR1701.

    The SAFE-T Act and it no-cash-bail bonds provision is once agained
    blamed for the perpetrator being out on the street, but in reality, this provision applies to offenders who don't have a long rap sheet, didn't
    commit a violent crime, and don't have pending cases.

    Instead, it's the trial court chief judge's order for electronic home monitoring, actually started before COVID but with massive numbers of
    those facing charges in pre-trial home confinement during COVID. They
    never ended the practice.

    The sheriff protested immediately by the number facing violent felony
    charges put in home confinement, not limited to nonviolent velonies.
    After more than a decade of complaining he lacked the resources to
    monitor so many potentially violent arrestees, he forced the chief judge
    to take over monitoring. However, when they go off home confinement, the sheriff will still be notified to seek the fugitive.

    This perpetrator, age 26, had seven felony convictions. No-cash bail
    bond provision did not apply. Instead, he'd been arrested for a crime,
    put on home monitoring, then arrested for a second crime. Now, he's
    supposed to be taken before the first judge to decide if he violated
    bond conditions to have the first bond revoked and then get held in
    pre-trial detention. Committing additional crines while on bond is
    always a violation of bond conditions. Instead, the second judge put him
    on home confineent even though he was no longer eligible.

    He went off his monitor. Now, after four hours, the judge is supposed to
    be notified to issue a fugitive warrant. Instead, it was 48 hours before
    the judge acted.

    Then the sheriff wasn't notifed about the fugitve.

    The morning in question, he committed robbery, got quickly picked up by
    the two police officers who failed to find the weapon he had concealed,
    took him to hospital as he claimed he swallowed drugs. On the hospital
    gurney, he pulled out a gun, killing one officer and seriously wounding
    the second.

    I keep making the same criticism. Somehow, no one is checking if the
    arrestee is under bond conditions or on probation or parole, all of
    which require taking him back to the judge or institution that imposed
    release conditions to see if he's in violation. The earlier release
    needs to be revoked. Then he can be held in either pre-trial
    confinement, or with probation or parole, sent to state prison while
    awaiting trial.

    For repeat offenders, no cash bail bonds have nothing to do with
    anything but judges truly need to take their jobs seriously when
    considering whom to put on home confinement.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BTR1701@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 17:52:26 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On May 2, 2026 at 10:31:16 AM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    The morning in question, he committed robbery, got quickly picked up by
    the two police officers who failed to find the weapon he had concealed,
    took him to hospital as he claimed he swallowed drugs. On the hospital gurney, he pulled out a gun, killing one officer and seriously wounding
    the second.

    I keep making the same criticism. Somehow, no one is checking if the
    arrestee is under bond conditions or on probation or parole

    Or, apparently, checking to see if arrested suspects are carrying weapons.

    Thoroughly searching people sucks. I hated it. Even with gloves on, having to touch your typical criminal, especially in places where weapons can be concealed is extremely off-putting, but as we see here, it can be the difference between life and death.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 18:59:19 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
    On May 2, 2026 at 10:31:16 AM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    The morning in question, he committed robbery, got quickly picked up by
    the two police officers who failed to find the weapon he had concealed, >>took him to hospital as he claimed he swallowed drugs. On the hospital >>gurney, he pulled out a gun, killing one officer and seriously wounding
    the second.

    I keep making the same criticism. Somehow, no one is checking if the >>arrestee is under bond conditions or on probation or parole

    Or, apparently, checking to see if arrested suspects are carrying weapons.

    Well, yes, that was what I had immediately concluded from news reports,
    that the gun hadn't been discovered on the person of the prisoner in
    custody. Everything I've written in followup here is truly a distraction
    from the fundamental issue. Those two police officers paid a heavy price
    for their error.

    Thoroughly searching people sucks. I hated it. Even with gloves on, having to >touch your typical criminal, especially in places where weapons can be >concealed is extremely off-putting, but as we see here, it can be the >difference between life and death.

    Yes.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 16:55:20 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On 2026-05-02 1:31 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    This didn't make national news but I'm absolutely disgusted by the
    shooting of two police officers, one dead, the other seriously wounded.
    They were shot at a hospital by the man they took into custody. He'd
    committed a robbery but took a bundle of cash with a tracker in it so
    police were able to find him.

    Authorities are, of course, emphasizing the out-of-state gun purchaae by
    a straw buyer because the perpetrator had a long rap sheet. The
    purchaser is being prosecuted under federal law.

    Kind of missing the point. He had been taken into custody, so why
    exactly did he still have a gun on his person? He had been taken to
    hospital for a CT scan as he claimed to have swallowed drugs. He was on
    a gurney, and I suspect he was naked except for the hospital gown. He
    hid the gun under a blanket, grabbing it as soon as handcuffs were
    removed for the scan.

    That shooting should have never occurred.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/04/27/police-hospital-shooting-charges/ >> https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2026/04/27/suspect-charged-in-swedish-hospital-shooting-that-left-1-cop-dead-and-another-fighting-for-his-life-source

    New revelations are so much worse, I'm thinking of entering it into the periodic race to the bottom contest with BTR1701.

    The SAFE-T Act and it no-cash-bail bonds provision is once agained
    blamed for the perpetrator being out on the street, but in reality, this provision applies to offenders who don't have a long rap sheet, didn't
    commit a violent crime, and don't have pending cases.

    Instead, it's the trial court chief judge's order for electronic home monitoring, actually started before COVID but with massive numbers of
    those facing charges in pre-trial home confinement during COVID. They
    never ended the practice.

    The sheriff protested immediately by the number facing violent felony
    charges put in home confinement, not limited to nonviolent velonies.
    After more than a decade of complaining he lacked the resources to
    monitor so many potentially violent arrestees, he forced the chief judge
    to take over monitoring. However, when they go off home confinement, the sheriff will still be notified to seek the fugitive.

    This perpetrator, age 26, had seven felony convictions. No-cash bail
    bond provision did not apply. Instead, he'd been arrested for a crime,
    put on home monitoring, then arrested for a second crime. Now, he's
    supposed to be taken before the first judge to decide if he violated
    bond conditions to have the first bond revoked and then get held in
    pre-trial detention. Committing additional crines while on bond is
    always a violation of bond conditions. Instead, the second judge put him
    on home confineent even though he was no longer eligible.

    He went off his monitor. Now, after four hours, the judge is supposed to
    be notified to issue a fugitive warrant. Instead, it was 48 hours before
    the judge acted.

    Then the sheriff wasn't notifed about the fugitve.

    The morning in question, he committed robbery, got quickly picked up by
    the two police officers who failed to find the weapon he had concealed,
    took him to hospital as he claimed he swallowed drugs. On the hospital gurney, he pulled out a gun, killing one officer and seriously wounding
    the second.

    I keep making the same criticism. Somehow, no one is checking if the
    arrestee is under bond conditions or on probation or parole, all of
    which require taking him back to the judge or institution that imposed release conditions to see if he's in violation. The earlier release
    needs to be revoked. Then he can be held in either pre-trial
    confinement, or with probation or parole, sent to state prison while
    awaiting trial.

    For repeat offenders, no cash bail bonds have nothing to do with
    anything but judges truly need to take their jobs seriously when
    considering whom to put on home confinement.

    In this country, just about every news report of an arrest includes the information that the person arrested was out on bail for a previous
    offence - and usually MANY previous offences! - and that they are
    awaiting a bail hearing in the next day or two to see what happens next.
    We rarely hear what the judge decides but I can only assume that the
    decision is to let him out on bail again because there are so many such
    cases.

    Early in (Justin) Trudeau's first term, the Liberals amended the
    Criminal Code to say that bail should only be refused in very specific
    cases and being a repeat offender was NOT one of them.

    If I were writing the laws, I'd say that someone who had no previous convictions should get the benefit of the doubt and be allowed out on
    bail pending trial UNLESS they'd done something really heinous and there
    was already considerable reliable evidence to support the charge, in
    which case they should be remanded in custody to await trial. If they
    got bail and then violated the conditions, they'd go right back to jail
    to await their trial on both the original charge and any new ones that
    had been incurred while they were out on bail. Anyone who had been
    convicted on something wouldn't qualify for bail at all, ever. (I might
    be persuaded that if a convicted person had kept their nose clean for a
    long period, like 20 or 30 years, and then was arrested for something not-too-heinous, they might deserve another shot at bail but I'd still
    be suspicious that they'd carried on their criminality in the
    intervening period and just hadn't been caught at it.)

    I'm sick and tired of bail being very close to automatic for people that
    are clearly career criminals. A more sensible government could change
    those ludicrous laws (and maybe appoint fewer activist judges).

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sat May 2 17:03:01 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On 2026-05-02 1:52 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
    On May 2, 2026 at 10:31:16 AM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    The morning in question, he committed robbery, got quickly picked up by
    the two police officers who failed to find the weapon he had concealed,
    took him to hospital as he claimed he swallowed drugs. On the hospital
    gurney, he pulled out a gun, killing one officer and seriously wounding
    the second.

    I keep making the same criticism. Somehow, no one is checking if the
    arrestee is under bond conditions or on probation or parole

    Or, apparently, checking to see if arrested suspects are carrying weapons.

    Thoroughly searching people sucks. I hated it. Even with gloves on, having to touch your typical criminal, especially in places where weapons can be concealed is extremely off-putting, but as we see here, it can be the difference between life and death.


    Here's a (tongue-in-cheek) idea: tell the detainee that you need to
    check him for weapons and contraband and you'll do it by putting him
    through an MRI. Make it very clear that if there is any metal on him (or
    her) when they go into the MRI, it will essentially kill them due to the
    way the machine works. Maybe show a movie of a mannequin with metal in
    it go into an MRI blowing up.... I'll bet the perps would give up their contraband REALLY fast!

    Yeah, I know, the Civil Rights types will condemn that for violating the suspect's right to bodily privacy or cruel and unusual punishment or
    something like that.

    Still, it might be a good scene in a movie centered on a really hard cop
    who "dispenses justice his own way".

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 11:37:32 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2026-05-02 1:31 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    This didn't make national news but I'm absolutely disgusted by the >>>shooting of two police officers, one dead, the other seriously wounded. >>>They were shot at a hospital by the man they took into custody. He'd >>>committed a robbery but took a bundle of cash with a tracker in it so >>>police were able to find him.

    Authorities are, of course, emphasizing the out-of-state gun purchaae by >>>a straw buyer because the perpetrator had a long rap sheet. The
    purchaser is being prosecuted under federal law.

    Kind of missing the point. He had been taken into custody, so why
    exactly did he still have a gun on his person? He had been taken to >>>hospital for a CT scan as he claimed to have swallowed drugs. He was on
    a gurney, and I suspect he was naked except for the hospital gown. He
    hid the gun under a blanket, grabbing it as soon as handcuffs were >>>removed for the scan.

    That shooting should have never occurred.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/04/27/police-hospital-shooting-charges/ >>>https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2026/04/27/suspect-charged-in-swedish-hospital-shooting-that-left-1-cop-dead-and-another-fighting-for-his-life-source

    New revelations are so much worse, I'm thinking of entering it into the >>periodic race to the bottom contest with BTR1701.

    The SAFE-T Act and it no-cash-bail bonds provision is once agained
    blamed for the perpetrator being out on the street, but in reality, this >>provision applies to offenders who don't have a long rap sheet, didn't >>commit a violent crime, and don't have pending cases.

    Instead, it's the trial court chief judge's order for electronic home >>monitoring, actually started before COVID but with massive numbers of
    those facing charges in pre-trial home confinement during COVID. They
    never ended the practice.

    The sheriff protested immediately by the number facing violent felony >>charges put in home confinement, not limited to nonviolent velonies.
    After more than a decade of complaining he lacked the resources to
    monitor so many potentially violent arrestees, he forced the chief judge
    to take over monitoring. However, when they go off home confinement, the >>sheriff will still be notified to seek the fugitive.

    This perpetrator, age 26, had seven felony convictions. No-cash bail
    bond provision did not apply. Instead, he'd been arrested for a crime,
    put on home monitoring, then arrested for a second crime. Now, he's >>supposed to be taken before the first judge to decide if he violated
    bond conditions to have the first bond revoked and then get held in >>pre-trial detention. Committing additional crines while on bond is
    always a violation of bond conditions. Instead, the second judge put him
    on home confineent even though he was no longer eligible.

    He went off his monitor. Now, after four hours, the judge is supposed to
    be notified to issue a fugitive warrant. Instead, it was 48 hours before >>the judge acted.

    Then the sheriff wasn't notifed about the fugitve.

    The morning in question, he committed robbery, got quickly picked up by
    the two police officers who failed to find the weapon he had concealed, >>took him to hospital as he claimed he swallowed drugs. On the hospital >>gurney, he pulled out a gun, killing one officer and seriously wounding
    the second.

    I keep making the same criticism. Somehow, no one is checking if the >>arrestee is under bond conditions or on probation or parole, all of
    which require taking him back to the judge or institution that imposed >>release conditions to see if he's in violation. The earlier release
    needs to be revoked. Then he can be held in either pre-trial
    confinement, or with probation or parole, sent to state prison while >>awaiting trial.

    For repeat offenders, no cash bail bonds have nothing to do with
    anything but judges truly need to take their jobs seriously when >>considering whom to put on home confinement.

    In this country, just about every news report of an arrest includes the >information that the person arrested was out on bail for a previous
    offence - and usually MANY previous offences! - and that they are
    awaiting a bail hearing in the next day or two to see what happens next.
    We rarely hear what the judge decides but I can only assume that the >decision is to let him out on bail again because there are so many such >cases.

    Early in (Justin) Trudeau's first term, the Liberals amended the
    Criminal Code to say that bail should only be refused in very specific
    cases and being a repeat offender was NOT one of them.

    Without reading your law on bond, it may be that automatic refusal of
    pre-trial release cannot be based on repeat offender status. The
    prosecution is supposed to make the argument that the defendant is a
    flight risk and dangerous to the public and should therefore be held in pre-trial confinement. The defense may argue that the defendant ALWAYS
    showed up on time for court, and any other evidence he's not a flight risk.

    But "repeat offender" status, based on past sentences, is one aspect.
    The main problem is the extent to which the entire justice syste,
    police, prosecutors, and judges, are ignoring whether a convicted felon
    remains under sentence due to probation or parole, or an arrestee is
    under bond conditions or had violated home confinement or electronic
    monitoring conditions and was a fugitive when picked up for the most
    recent crime.

    It shouldn't matter if the most recent arrest, taken in isolation, would
    result in no-cash-bail bond and pre-trial release. The issue is, If he
    violated conditions of past bonds, why isn't he taken back to the judge
    who imposed those conditions? Nearly any judge who learns that his order
    was violated would revoke bond. If he's under sentence, then he should
    have a hearing considering whether he violated terms of probation or
    parole. THAT'S what must be addressed, and then there's no need to be
    concerned about whether there is too much laxity in the law on bond.

    In the case of Cook County and a pre-COVID pre-George Floyd policy of
    trying to keep the nighttime jail population as low as possible, the
    serious problem is judges putting those charged with violent crimes on
    home nonitoring, ignoring that they shouldn't be eligible, and ignoring
    past vioations of electronic detention. This isn't based on state law
    but orders of the chief judge.

    . . .

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 10:08:33 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On 2026-05-03 7:37 a.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2026-05-02 1:31 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

    This didn't make national news but I'm absolutely disgusted by the
    shooting of two police officers, one dead, the other seriously wounded. >>>> They were shot at a hospital by the man they took into custody. He'd
    committed a robbery but took a bundle of cash with a tracker in it so
    police were able to find him.

    Authorities are, of course, emphasizing the out-of-state gun purchaae by >>>> a straw buyer because the perpetrator had a long rap sheet. The
    purchaser is being prosecuted under federal law.

    Kind of missing the point. He had been taken into custody, so why
    exactly did he still have a gun on his person? He had been taken to
    hospital for a CT scan as he claimed to have swallowed drugs. He was on >>>> a gurney, and I suspect he was naked except for the hospital gown. He
    hid the gun under a blanket, grabbing it as soon as handcuffs were
    removed for the scan.

    That shooting should have never occurred.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/04/27/police-hospital-shooting-charges/
    https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2026/04/27/suspect-charged-in-swedish-hospital-shooting-that-left-1-cop-dead-and-another-fighting-for-his-life-source

    New revelations are so much worse, I'm thinking of entering it into the
    periodic race to the bottom contest with BTR1701.

    The SAFE-T Act and it no-cash-bail bonds provision is once agained
    blamed for the perpetrator being out on the street, but in reality, this >>> provision applies to offenders who don't have a long rap sheet, didn't
    commit a violent crime, and don't have pending cases.

    Instead, it's the trial court chief judge's order for electronic home
    monitoring, actually started before COVID but with massive numbers of
    those facing charges in pre-trial home confinement during COVID. They
    never ended the practice.

    The sheriff protested immediately by the number facing violent felony
    charges put in home confinement, not limited to nonviolent velonies.
    After more than a decade of complaining he lacked the resources to
    monitor so many potentially violent arrestees, he forced the chief judge >>> to take over monitoring. However, when they go off home confinement, the >>> sheriff will still be notified to seek the fugitive.

    This perpetrator, age 26, had seven felony convictions. No-cash bail
    bond provision did not apply. Instead, he'd been arrested for a crime,
    put on home monitoring, then arrested for a second crime. Now, he's
    supposed to be taken before the first judge to decide if he violated
    bond conditions to have the first bond revoked and then get held in
    pre-trial detention. Committing additional crines while on bond is
    always a violation of bond conditions. Instead, the second judge put him >>> on home confineent even though he was no longer eligible.

    He went off his monitor. Now, after four hours, the judge is supposed to >>> be notified to issue a fugitive warrant. Instead, it was 48 hours before >>> the judge acted.

    Then the sheriff wasn't notifed about the fugitve.

    The morning in question, he committed robbery, got quickly picked up by
    the two police officers who failed to find the weapon he had concealed,
    took him to hospital as he claimed he swallowed drugs. On the hospital
    gurney, he pulled out a gun, killing one officer and seriously wounding
    the second.

    I keep making the same criticism. Somehow, no one is checking if the
    arrestee is under bond conditions or on probation or parole, all of
    which require taking him back to the judge or institution that imposed
    release conditions to see if he's in violation. The earlier release
    needs to be revoked. Then he can be held in either pre-trial
    confinement, or with probation or parole, sent to state prison while
    awaiting trial.

    For repeat offenders, no cash bail bonds have nothing to do with
    anything but judges truly need to take their jobs seriously when
    considering whom to put on home confinement.

    In this country, just about every news report of an arrest includes the
    information that the person arrested was out on bail for a previous
    offence - and usually MANY previous offences! - and that they are
    awaiting a bail hearing in the next day or two to see what happens next.
    We rarely hear what the judge decides but I can only assume that the
    decision is to let him out on bail again because there are so many such
    cases.

    Early in (Justin) Trudeau's first term, the Liberals amended the
    Criminal Code to say that bail should only be refused in very specific
    cases and being a repeat offender was NOT one of them.

    Without reading your law on bond, it may be that automatic refusal of pre-trial release cannot be based on repeat offender status. The
    prosecution is supposed to make the argument that the defendant is a
    flight risk and dangerous to the public and should therefore be held in pre-trial confinement. The defense may argue that the defendant ALWAYS
    showed up on time for court, and any other evidence he's not a flight risk.

    But "repeat offender" status, based on past sentences, is one aspect.
    The main problem is the extent to which the entire justice syste,
    police, prosecutors, and judges, are ignoring whether a convicted felon remains under sentence due to probation or parole, or an arrestee is
    under bond conditions or had violated home confinement or electronic monitoring conditions and was a fugitive when picked up for the most
    recent crime.

    It shouldn't matter if the most recent arrest, taken in isolation, would result in no-cash-bail bond and pre-trial release. The issue is, If he violated conditions of past bonds, why isn't he taken back to the judge
    who imposed those conditions? Nearly any judge who learns that his order
    was violated would revoke bond. If he's under sentence, then he should
    have a hearing considering whether he violated terms of probation or
    parole. THAT'S what must be addressed, and then there's no need to be concerned about whether there is too much laxity in the law on bond.

    In the case of Cook County and a pre-COVID pre-George Floyd policy of
    trying to keep the nighttime jail population as low as possible, the
    serious problem is judges putting those charged with violent crimes on
    home nonitoring, ignoring that they shouldn't be eligible, and ignoring
    past vioations of electronic detention. This isn't based on state law
    but orders of the chief judge.

    . . .
    Thank you for your comment. It gives me a chance to speak in more
    measured terms. It's important to word things pretty precisely and I did
    not.

    I get that the general approach to someone being charged with a crime
    and brought before a judge (in Ontario, that can be a judge or a justice
    of the peace but I'll just say judge) for arraignment should be to give
    them the benefit of the doubt and give them bail if they've never been
    in trouble with the law before. After all, the charge may be sketchy
    with weak evidence and may even involve police coercion, all things that
    won't come out until the trial. That's pretty reasonable for crimes that aren't too severe and involve first time offenders. (Reasonable people
    could dispute where the dividing line is on severity!)

    But when the same individual is arrested again and again for new crimes
    or breaches of bail conditions while still awaiting trial on the first
    charge, it is increasingly difficult to believe that he or she is
    innocent of all of these charges: they look very much like a career
    criminal that is continuing to indulge in their profession thanks to the
    bail they keep getting. It might be comforting to assume that when
    they've been brought up on yet another charge while still awaiting trial
    on the first charge the judge will eventually decide that enough is
    enough and hold this person in jail until the trial but the evidence
    suggests it would be foolish to rely on this.

    https://news.uoguelph.ca/2025/11/5-ways-to-strengthen-canadas-bail-system-opinion/

    Look at those numbers: =======================================================================
    A review of bail decisions for 2022-23 by the BC Prosecution Service in British Columbia revealed that detention rates were slightly higher than average when there was a violent offence involved (between 10 to 13 per
    cent) and notably higher where there was a violent offence and breach of conditions (between 17 and 24 per cent).

    According to a report from the Toronto Police Service, seven out of the
    of 44 gun-related homicides in 2022 (16 per cent) were allegedly
    committed by people on bail. =======================================================================

    Seven people who died in Toronto that year were killed by people out on
    bail. The BC numbers show that even committing a violent offence AND
    breaching bail conditions when you're out on bail only increases the likelihood of being remanded in custody to 24%.

    How many people are literally dying because the judges are letting
    people charged with serious crimes out on bail while they await trial?
    The balance between giving the benefit of the doubt and the exploitation
    of the system by career criminals appears to have been struck in the
    wrong place.

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Adam H. Kerman@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 14:57:05 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    But when the same individual is arrested again and again for new crimes
    or breaches of bail conditions while still awaiting trial on the first >charge, it is increasingly difficult to believe that he or she is
    innocent of all of these charges: they look very much like a career
    criminal that is continuing to indulge in their profession thanks to the >bail they keep getting.

    The evidentiary standard is much lower for arraignment and deciding
    whether the defendant should be in pre-trial confinement. Actual
    innocence simply is not a consideration, and the defendant isn't even
    allowed to make any such claim.

    The point is that holding those in pre-trial confinement who need to be
    held isn't impossible and shouldn't even be difficult. It's just that
    the entire justice system is failing to follow the law.

    It might be comforting to assume that when
    they've been brought up on yet another charge while still awaiting trial
    on the first charge the judge will eventually decide that enough is
    enough and hold this person in jail until the trial but the evidence >suggests it would be foolish to rely on this.

    The bigger issue is not with the judge setting bond conditions if in
    pre-trial release but with the failure to bring the defendant back to
    the previous judge for a hearing on whether existing bond conditions
    were violated. If they were, bond gets revoked on the earlier charge and
    the defendant is then held in pre-trial confinement.

    That's where the huge failure to enforce the law is, confronting the
    earlier judge with the violation of bond conditions and giving that
    judge the opportunity to revoke bond.

    https://news.uoguelph.ca/2025/11/5-ways-to-strengthen-canadas-bail-system-opinion/

    Look at those numbers: >=======================================================================
    A review of bail decisions for 2022-23 by the BC Prosecution Service in >British Columbia revealed that detention rates were slightly higher than >average when there was a violent offence involved (between 10 to 13 per >cent) and notably higher where there was a violent offence and breach of >conditions (between 17 and 24 per cent).

    That goes to my point! Breach of bond conditions? 100% of such bonds
    must be revoked. They aren't following the law.

    According to a report from the Toronto Police Service, seven out of the
    of 44 gun-related homicides in 2022 (16 per cent) were allegedly
    committed by people on bail. >=======================================================================

    Seven people who died in Toronto that year were killed by people out on >bail. The BC numbers show that even committing a violent offence AND >breaching bail conditions when you're out on bail only increases the >likelihood of being remanded in custody to 24%.

    How many people are literally dying because the judges are letting
    people charged with serious crimes out on bail while they await trial?
    The balance between giving the benefit of the doubt and the exploitation
    of the system by career criminals appears to have been struck in the
    wrong place.

    To be fair, it depends upon the nature of the charge. The issue is if
    someone just taken into custody is in breach of bond conditions already
    in place. If those defendents go into pre-trial confinement at that
    point, I'll bet the that statistic would be zeroed out.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 12:07:11 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On 2026-05-03 10:57 a.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    . . .

    But when the same individual is arrested again and again for new crimes
    or breaches of bail conditions while still awaiting trial on the first
    charge, it is increasingly difficult to believe that he or she is
    innocent of all of these charges: they look very much like a career
    criminal that is continuing to indulge in their profession thanks to the
    bail they keep getting.

    The evidentiary standard is much lower for arraignment and deciding
    whether the defendant should be in pre-trial confinement. Actual
    innocence simply is not a consideration, and the defendant isn't even
    allowed to make any such claim.

    The point is that holding those in pre-trial confinement who need to be
    held isn't impossible and shouldn't even be difficult. It's just that
    the entire justice system is failing to follow the law.

    It might be comforting to assume that when
    they've been brought up on yet another charge while still awaiting trial
    on the first charge the judge will eventually decide that enough is
    enough and hold this person in jail until the trial but the evidence
    suggests it would be foolish to rely on this.

    The bigger issue is not with the judge setting bond conditions if in pre-trial release but with the failure to bring the defendant back to
    the previous judge for a hearing on whether existing bond conditions
    were violated. If they were, bond gets revoked on the earlier charge and
    the defendant is then held in pre-trial confinement.

    That's where the huge failure to enforce the law is, confronting the
    earlier judge with the violation of bond conditions and giving that
    judge the opportunity to revoke bond.

    It's not remotely clear from anything I've read whether the person who
    commits a second (or third or fourth) offence while on bail sees the
    original arraignment judge or is given an entirely new judge. It's not
    even clear if the second (third, fourth) arraignment judge has any
    knowledge of the suspect's previous interactions with the court! The
    judge may not even KNOW about previous arraignments, let alone what was decided by the previous judge.

    I want to believe that the subsequent arraignment judge at least knows
    what happened at previous arraignments. Then they could see for
    themselves that the person before them has violated the conditions and
    should revoke bail; they wouldn't need to send them back to the first arraignment judge.
    https://news.uoguelph.ca/2025/11/5-ways-to-strengthen-canadas-bail-system-opinion/

    Look at those numbers:
    =======================================================================
    A review of bail decisions for 2022-23 by the BC Prosecution Service in
    British Columbia revealed that detention rates were slightly higher than
    average when there was a violent offence involved (between 10 to 13 per
    cent) and notably higher where there was a violent offence and breach of
    conditions (between 17 and 24 per cent).

    That goes to my point! Breach of bond conditions? 100% of such bonds
    must be revoked. They aren't following the law.

    According to a report from the Toronto Police Service, seven out of the
    of 44 gun-related homicides in 2022 (16 per cent) were allegedly
    committed by people on bail.
    =======================================================================

    Seven people who died in Toronto that year were killed by people out on
    bail. The BC numbers show that even committing a violent offence AND
    breaching bail conditions when you're out on bail only increases the
    likelihood of being remanded in custody to 24%.

    How many people are literally dying because the judges are letting
    people charged with serious crimes out on bail while they await trial?
    The balance between giving the benefit of the doubt and the exploitation
    of the system by career criminals appears to have been struck in the
    wrong place.

    To be fair, it depends upon the nature of the charge. The issue is if
    someone just taken into custody is in breach of bond conditions already
    in place. If those defendents go into pre-trial confinement at that
    point, I'll bet the that statistic would be zeroed out.

    But that apparently isn't happening as we see from the example of BC.
    Surely that could be remedied by changing the law so it isn't
    discretionary about whether the judge could revoke bail after a breach
    of conditions.

    And yes, the severity of the breach of the bail condition should be
    taken into account. For example, if they have a restraining order - I
    can't remember our term for that - and INADVERTENTLY find themselves too
    close to the person they are supposed to avoid, that might be excusable depending on the circumstances. I could see the judge showing some
    leniency there. It's reasonable that there could still be SOME
    discretion on the judge's part.

    I can also understand the pressures to reduce the prison population. Apparently some prisons are seriously over-crowded. I was stunned to see
    a claim that in some prisons, 80% of the occupants were there on
    pre-trial detention rather than a conviction and that some prisons were
    at 150% occupancy. I have to imagine that at least some of the people
    held on remand will eventually beat their charges at trial, at which
    point I believe they get compensation for their time in custody. That
    means there's the cost of incarceration AND the cost of compensation,
    making it more attractive to the government to let them await trial on
    the streets. Obviously, some of that could be remedied by building more prisons and speeding up trials, although those are both going to have significant costs, too.

    But this nonsense of people committing crimes, get bailed, committing
    more crimes, getting bailed again, repeated for several often serious
    crimes is nuts and needs to get fixed.

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 12:16:44 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 08:58:14 -0400, Rhino
    <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2026-04-28 12:43 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    This didn't make national news but I'm absolutely disgusted by the
    shooting of two police officers, one dead, the other seriously wounded.
    They were shot at a hospital by the man they took into custody. He'd
    committed a robbery but took a bundle of cash with a tracker in it so
    police were able to find him.

    Authorities are, of course, emphasizing the out-of-state gun purchaae by
    a straw buyer because the perpetrator had a long rap sheet. The
    purchaser is being prosecuted under federal law.

    Kind of missing the point. He had been taken into custody, so why
    exactly did he still have a gun on his person? He had been taken to
    hospital for a CT scan as he claimed to have swallowed drugs. He was on
    a gurney, and I suspect he was naked except for the hospital gown. He
    hid the gun under a blanket, grabbing it as soon as handcuffs were
    removed for the scan.

    That shooting should have never occurred.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/04/27/police-hospital-shooting-charges/ >> https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2026/04/27/suspect-charged-in-swedish-hospital-shooting-that-left-1-cop-dead-and-another-fighting-for-his-life-source

    There was actually a somewhat similar incident in Toronto maybe two or
    three years ago. A man was taken into custody by police, handcuffed, and
    put in the back of a police car to be transported to the lockup. During
    the trip, he somehow contorted himself and was in the process of digging
    out a gun that must have been secreted on his person. I don't remember
    if he managed to get a shot off but I believe he had gotten the gun out >before the officer driving the car managed to overcome him. In any case,
    the officer was not shot but it was a very near thing. I never heard
    about any inquiry into this but I have to assume the suspect was either
    not patted down or was not patted down thoroughly. I have to imagine
    this incident scared the bejesus out of the officer driving the car and
    led to some serious review of procedures at the next few roll calls.

    I'd love to see a web link on the Toronto incident

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 12:21:35 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On Sat, 2 May 2026 16:55:20 -0400, Rhino
    <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    If I were writing the laws, I'd say that someone who had no previous >convictions should get the benefit of the doubt and be allowed out on
    bail pending trial UNLESS they'd done something really heinous and there
    was already considerable reliable evidence to support the charge, in
    which case they should be remanded in custody to await trial.

    Surely no charges would be laid in the first place unless police and
    more importantly the prosecutor feels the evidence means a very high
    chance of conviction.

    If there's a situation where 'one of three people definitely did it
    but we don't have a clue which one' charges don't get laid since
    'guilty beyond a reasonable doubt' conditions don't exist - and
    'balance of probabilities' only exists in civil law not criminal.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Rhino@3:633/10 to All on Sun May 3 16:07:00 2026
    Subject: Re: Inexcusable shooting of two police officers, one dead, one seriously wounded

    On 2026-05-03 3:16 p.m., The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 08:58:14 -0400, Rhino
    <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    On 2026-04-28 12:43 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    This didn't make national news but I'm absolutely disgusted by the
    shooting of two police officers, one dead, the other seriously wounded.
    They were shot at a hospital by the man they took into custody. He'd
    committed a robbery but took a bundle of cash with a tracker in it so
    police were able to find him.

    Authorities are, of course, emphasizing the out-of-state gun purchaae by >>> a straw buyer because the perpetrator had a long rap sheet. The
    purchaser is being prosecuted under federal law.

    Kind of missing the point. He had been taken into custody, so why
    exactly did he still have a gun on his person? He had been taken to
    hospital for a CT scan as he claimed to have swallowed drugs. He was on
    a gurney, and I suspect he was naked except for the hospital gown. He
    hid the gun under a blanket, grabbing it as soon as handcuffs were
    removed for the scan.

    That shooting should have never occurred.

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/2026/04/27/police-hospital-shooting-charges/ >>> https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2026/04/27/suspect-charged-in-swedish-hospital-shooting-that-left-1-cop-dead-and-another-fighting-for-his-life-source

    There was actually a somewhat similar incident in Toronto maybe two or
    three years ago. A man was taken into custody by police, handcuffed, and
    put in the back of a police car to be transported to the lockup. During
    the trip, he somehow contorted himself and was in the process of digging
    out a gun that must have been secreted on his person. I don't remember
    if he managed to get a shot off but I believe he had gotten the gun out
    before the officer driving the car managed to overcome him. In any case,
    the officer was not shot but it was a very near thing. I never heard
    about any inquiry into this but I have to assume the suspect was either
    not patted down or was not patted down thoroughly. I have to imagine
    this incident scared the bejesus out of the officer driving the car and
    led to some serious review of procedures at the next few roll calls.

    I'd love to see a web link on the Toronto incident

    I had to enlist the help of Claude.AI because I couldn't find it myself
    but I believe this is the incident I'm remembering, which turns out to
    be a little longer ago than I thought.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/6096497/video-toronto-police-cruiser-suspect-pulls-gun-out/

    --
    Rhino

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.14
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)