I changed Subject to pre-flame myself, saving Robin the bother.
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
2025-10-19 12:47 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
In a move that will shock almost no one, the Hamass-holes have attacked >>>> an IDF position in Rafah and the IDF have fought back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMUJp_PWYNg [4 minutes]
The US reaction remains to be seen: will they let Israel resume the war >>>> or put their foot down and say no.
I was going to note that Hamas clearly and deliberately broke cease fire >>> here. They were shooting rocket-propelled grenades at the Israeli
position. You beat me to it.
There can be no permanent cease fire until Hamas is completely and utterly >>> thwarted once and for all. They need to make unconditional surrender,
and if Israel is not going to resume total occupation of the Gaza Strip, >>> then the Muslim nations need to do what they promised and occupy. But
that's actually dangerous which I assume is why they still have done
nothing.
Under the logic of sane and decent people, you'd think that breaking the
ceasefire would obviously be a suicidal move on the part of Hamas and
its allies. But these people literally belong to a death cult that
values death in the name of Islam over life. But I don't see how them
all getting killed helps their goal of destroying Israel unless they
think that their deaths will somehow cause their many supporters in the
West Bank rise up against the IDF. Otherwise, it really does seem like
deliberate suicide.
When is the foreign force supposed to arrive and take up their duties?
That's why I condemned Trump for the premature announcement. The Israeli withdrawal from any territory should have been a formal handover to an occupation force. But the Arabs, Pakistanis, and Turks have zero
interest in being fired upon by Hamas or having to face international criticism for failures of aid distribution.
I haven't heard anything yet about that, just that the US forces that will >> coordinate them are setting up outside Gaza. Or have the foreign forces
already weaseled out? I'm deeply skeptical of this outside force given
that most of them are Muslims and must surely be sympathetic to their
co-religionists. I would think their deeper loyalties would be to the
Palestinians rather than their own leaders.
Could *that* be Hamas' plan? Count on their Arab brothers not to show up
or to make an absolute hash of their role so that the US has to take
over?
Broken promises in the Middle East? That's completely unheard of.
Then they could launch a fresh jihad against the Great Satan
instead of settling for the Lesser Satan of Israel. That would surely
motivate their base. They'd surely lose against the US but could all
gloriously go to their heaven as martyrs and enjoy their 72 virgins,
which might be a real happily ever after moment for them. Or do they
think the other Muslim nations would rise up to help them fight the US,
in which case they could conceivably win, although it still seems like a
stretch.
It's possible.
On 2025-10-19 2:11 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
I changed Subject to pre-flame myself, saving Robin the bother.
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
2025-10-19 12:47 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
In a move that will shock almost no one, the Hamass-holes have
attacked
an IDF position in Rafah and the IDF have fought back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMUJp_PWYNg [4 minutes]
The US reaction remains to be seen: will they let Israel resume the >>>>> war
or put their foot down and say no.
I was going to note that Hamas clearly and deliberately broke cease
fire
here. They were shooting rocket-propelled grenades at the Israeli
position. You beat me to it.
There can be no permanent cease fire until Hamas is completely and
utterly
thwarted once and for all. They need to make unconditional surrender,
and if Israel is not going to resume total occupation of the Gaza
Strip,
then the Muslim nations need to do what they promised and occupy. But
that's actually dangerous which I assume is why they still have done
nothing.
Under the logic of sane and decent people, you'd think that breaking the >>> ceasefire would obviously be a suicidal move on the part of Hamas and
its allies. But these people literally belong to a death cult that
values death in the name of Islam over life. But I don't see how them
all getting killed helps their goal of destroying Israel unless they
think that their deaths will somehow cause their many supporters in the
West Bank rise up against the IDF. Otherwise, it really does seem like
deliberate suicide.
When is the foreign force supposed to arrive and take up their duties?
That's why I condemned Trump for the premature announcement. The Israeli
withdrawal from any territory should have been a formal handover to an
occupation force. But the Arabs, Pakistanis, and Turks have zero
interest in being fired upon by Hamas or having to face international
criticism for failures of aid distribution.
Agreed. I was quite surprised when the composition of the stablization
force was announced and couldn't figure out why those countries would
sign on to it. Trump must have offered them something HUGE. (Or they
were just virtue-signalling and never had any intention of coming
through with troops.>
I haven't heard anything yet about that, just that the US forces that
will
coordinate them are setting up outside Gaza. Or have the foreign forces
already weaseled out? I'm deeply skeptical of this outside force given
that most of them are Muslims and must surely be sympathetic to their
co-religionists. I would think their deeper loyalties would be to the
Palestinians rather than their own leaders.
Could *that* be Hamas' plan? Count on their Arab brothers not to show up >>> or to make an absolute hash of their role so that the US has to take
over?
Broken promises in the Middle East? That's completely unheard of.
Then they could launch a fresh jihad against the Great Satan
instead of settling for the Lesser Satan of Israel. That would surely
motivate their base. They'd surely lose against the US but could all
gloriously go to their heaven as martyrs and enjoy their 72 virgins,
which might be a real happily ever after moment for them. Or do they
think the other Muslim nations would rise up to help them fight the US,
in which case they could conceivably win, although it still seems like a >>> stretch.
It's possible.
In fact, Hamas has observed the ceasefire because they are desperate for >one, and Israel has continuously violated the truce agreement because it
has no desire to end the war.
--Robin
Rhino wrote:
On 2025-10-19 2:11 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
I changed Subject to pre-flame myself, saving Robin the bother.
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
2025-10-19 12:47 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
In a move that will shock almost no one, the Hamass-holes have
attacked
an IDF position in Rafah and the IDF have fought back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMUJp_PWYNg [4 minutes]
The US reaction remains to be seen: will they let Israel resume
the war
or put their foot down and say no.
I was going to note that Hamas clearly and deliberately broke cease >>>>> fire
here. They were shooting rocket-propelled grenades at the Israeli
position. You beat me to it.
There can be no permanent cease fire until Hamas is completely and
utterly
thwarted once and for all. They need to make unconditional surrender, >>>>> and if Israel is not going to resume total occupation of the Gaza
Strip,
then the Muslim nations need to do what they promised and occupy. But >>>>> that's actually dangerous which I assume is why they still have done >>>>> nothing.
Under the logic of sane and decent people, you'd think that breaking
the
ceasefire would obviously be a suicidal move on the part of Hamas and
its allies. But these people literally belong to a death cult that
values death in the name of Islam over life. But I don't see how them
all getting killed helps their goal of destroying Israel unless they
think that their deaths will somehow cause their many supporters in the >>>> West Bank rise up against the IDF. Otherwise, it really does seem like >>>> deliberate suicide.
When is the foreign force supposed to arrive and take up their duties?
That's why I condemned Trump for the premature announcement. The Israeli >>> withdrawal from any territory should have been a formal handover to an
occupation force. But the Arabs, Pakistanis, and Turks have zero
interest in being fired upon by Hamas or having to face international
criticism for failures of aid distribution.
Agreed. I was quite surprised when the composition of the stablization
force was announced and couldn't figure out why those countries would
sign on to it. Trump must have offered them something HUGE. (Or they
were just virtue-signalling and never had any intention of coming
through with troops.>
I haven't heard anything yet about that, just that the US forces
that will
coordinate them are setting up outside Gaza. Or have the foreign forces >>>> already weaseled out? I'm deeply skeptical of this outside force given >>>> that most of them are Muslims and must surely be sympathetic to their
co-religionists. I would think their deeper loyalties would be to the
Palestinians rather than their own leaders.
Could *that* be Hamas' plan? Count on their Arab brothers not to
show up
or to make an absolute hash of their role so that the US has to take
over?
Broken promises in the Middle East? That's completely unheard of.
Then they could launch a fresh jihad against the Great Satan
instead of settling for the Lesser Satan of Israel. That would surely
motivate their base. They'd surely lose against the US but could all
gloriously go to their heaven as martyrs and enjoy their 72 virgins,
which might be a real happily ever after moment for them. Or do they
think the other Muslim nations would rise up to help them fight the US, >>>> in which case they could conceivably win, although it still seems
like a
stretch.
It's possible.
Actually, assholes, what happened is that an Israeli bulldozer ran over unexploded Israeli ordinance as it was illegally destroying Palestinian homes in Rafah. There was no "Hamas attack." Netanyahu imposed a ban on
news coverage of the incident and used it as excuse to murder 47 more Palestinians. And the genocide apologists in this newsgroup lapped up
the lies, as usual.
Ryan Grim:
Soon after the explosion in Rafah, I?m told by a source familiar, the
White House and Pentagon knew that the incident was caused by an Israeli settler bulldozer running over unexploded ordnance ? contradicting Netanyahu?s claim that Hamas had popped up from tunnels.
After Netanyahu said he was blocking all aid from entering Gaza in
response, and unleashed a bombing campaign, the administration conveyed
to Israel that they know what happened. Netanyahu then announced he
would re-open the crossings in a few hours.
https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1979973964719124613
Younis Tirawi (reliable observer posting from Gaza):
Summary of what actually happened in Rafah
The incident has no connection to Hamas, nor to any operation or clash
of that kind.
A group of settlers who own private companies for demolishing houses
have been continuing for a week to demolish what remains of Rafah's
houses. Today, two of them were injured, most likely due to an explosive device that their vehicle passed over.
https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1979884789269143880
Caitlin Johnstone, Israel Flipped Out And Killed 45 Palestinians After Running Over Their Own Bomb
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/israel-flipped-out-and-killed-45
In fact, Hamas has observed the ceasefire because they are desperate for one, and Israel has continuously violated the truce agreement because it
has no desire to end the war.
On 2025-10-20 11:18 a.m., Robin Miller wrote:
Rhino wrote:I've just skimmed reports from the BBC (which is famously anti-Israel),
On 2025-10-19 2:11 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
I changed Subject to pre-flame myself, saving Robin the bother.
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
2025-10-19 12:47 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:That's why I condemned Trump for the premature announcement. The Israeli >>>> withdrawal from any territory should have been a formal handover to an >>>> occupation force. But the Arabs, Pakistanis, and Turks have zero
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
In a move that will shock almost no one, the Hamass-holes have
attacked
an IDF position in Rafah and the IDF have fought back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMUJp_PWYNg [4 minutes]
The US reaction remains to be seen: will they let Israel resume >>>>>>> the war
or put their foot down and say no.
I was going to note that Hamas clearly and deliberately broke cease >>>>>> fire
here. They were shooting rocket-propelled grenades at the Israeli
position. You beat me to it.
There can be no permanent cease fire until Hamas is completely and >>>>>> utterly
thwarted once and for all. They need to make unconditional surrender, >>>>>> and if Israel is not going to resume total occupation of the Gaza >>>>>> Strip,
then the Muslim nations need to do what they promised and occupy. But >>>>>> that's actually dangerous which I assume is why they still have done >>>>>> nothing.
Under the logic of sane and decent people, you'd think that breaking >>>>> the
ceasefire would obviously be a suicidal move on the part of Hamas and >>>>> its allies. But these people literally belong to a death cult that
values death in the name of Islam over life. But I don't see how them >>>>> all getting killed helps their goal of destroying Israel unless they >>>>> think that their deaths will somehow cause their many supporters in the >>>>> West Bank rise up against the IDF. Otherwise, it really does seem like >>>>> deliberate suicide.
When is the foreign force supposed to arrive and take up their duties? >>>>
interest in being fired upon by Hamas or having to face international
criticism for failures of aid distribution.
Agreed. I was quite surprised when the composition of the stablization
force was announced and couldn't figure out why those countries would
sign on to it. Trump must have offered them something HUGE. (Or they
were just virtue-signalling and never had any intention of coming
through with troops.>
I haven't heard anything yet about that, just that the US forces
that will
coordinate them are setting up outside Gaza. Or have the foreign forces >>>>> already weaseled out? I'm deeply skeptical of this outside force given >>>>> that most of them are Muslims and must surely be sympathetic to their >>>>> co-religionists. I would think their deeper loyalties would be to the >>>>> Palestinians rather than their own leaders.
Could *that* be Hamas' plan? Count on their Arab brothers not to
show up
or to make an absolute hash of their role so that the US has to take >>>>> over?
Broken promises in the Middle East? That's completely unheard of.
Then they could launch a fresh jihad against the Great Satan
instead of settling for the Lesser Satan of Israel. That would surely >>>>> motivate their base. They'd surely lose against the US but could all >>>>> gloriously go to their heaven as martyrs and enjoy their 72 virgins, >>>>> which might be a real happily ever after moment for them. Or do they >>>>> think the other Muslim nations would rise up to help them fight the US, >>>>> in which case they could conceivably win, although it still seems
like a
stretch.
It's possible.
Actually, assholes, what happened is that an Israeli bulldozer ran over
unexploded Israeli ordinance as it was illegally destroying Palestinian
homes in Rafah. There was no "Hamas attack." Netanyahu imposed a ban on
news coverage of the incident and used it as excuse to murder 47 more
Palestinians. And the genocide apologists in this newsgroup lapped up
the lies, as usual.
Ryan Grim:
Soon after the explosion in Rafah, I?m told by a source familiar, the
White House and Pentagon knew that the incident was caused by an Israeli
settler bulldozer running over unexploded ordnance ? contradicting
Netanyahu?s claim that Hamas had popped up from tunnels.
After Netanyahu said he was blocking all aid from entering Gaza in
response, and unleashed a bombing campaign, the administration conveyed
to Israel that they know what happened. Netanyahu then announced he
would re-open the crossings in a few hours.
https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1979973964719124613
the Guardian and NPR, both of which are reliably "progressive" and none
of them mention a bulldozer or settlers. They report that the two men
killed were a major and a sergeant in the IDF.
Meanwhile, I can only find reporting from Ryan Grim in minor
publications I've never heard of so I'm not inclined to put his
reliability over that of internationally known sources. >
Younis Tirawi (reliable observer posting from Gaza):
Summary of what actually happened in Rafah
The incident has no connection to Hamas, nor to any operation or clash
of that kind.
A group of settlers who own private companies for demolishing houses
have been continuing for a week to demolish what remains of Rafah's
houses. Today, two of them were injured, most likely due to an explosive
device that their vehicle passed over.
https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1979884789269143880
Caitlin Johnstone, Israel Flipped Out And Killed 45 Palestinians After
Running Over Their Own Bomb
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/israel-flipped-out-and-killed-45
In fact, Hamas has observed the ceasefire because they are desperate for
one, and Israel has continuously violated the truce agreement because it
has no desire to end the war.
Hamas was supposed to disarm and get out of Gaza but they took advantage
of the IDF withdrawing to agreed-upon lines to settle scores with people
in Gaza who opposed them. They've shot quite a few of them already. This >doesn't sound like the actions of a group desperate for peace.
On 2025-10-20 11:18 a.m., Robin Miller wrote:
Rhino wrote:I've just skimmed reports from the BBC (which is famously anti-Israel), the Guardian and NPR,
On 2025-10-19 2:11 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
I changed Subject to pre-flame myself, saving Robin the bother.
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
2025-10-19 12:47 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:That's why I condemned Trump for the premature announcement. The Israeli >>>> withdrawal from any territory should have been a formal handover to an >>>> occupation force. But the Arabs, Pakistanis, and Turks have zero
Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
In a move that will shock almost no one, the Hamass-holes have attacked >>>>>>> an IDF position in Rafah and the IDF have fought back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMUJp_PWYNg [4 minutes]
The US reaction remains to be seen: will they let Israel resume the war >>>>>>> or put their foot down and say no.
I was going to note that Hamas clearly and deliberately broke cease fire >>>>>> here. They were shooting rocket-propelled grenades at the Israeli
position. You beat me to it.
There can be no permanent cease fire until Hamas is completely and utterly
thwarted once and for all. They need to make unconditional surrender, >>>>>> and if Israel is not going to resume total occupation of the Gaza Strip, >>>>>> then the Muslim nations need to do what they promised and occupy. But >>>>>> that's actually dangerous which I assume is why they still have done >>>>>> nothing.
Under the logic of sane and decent people, you'd think that breaking the >>>>> ceasefire would obviously be a suicidal move on the part of Hamas and >>>>> its allies. But these people literally belong to a death cult that
values death in the name of Islam over life. But I don't see how them >>>>> all getting killed helps their goal of destroying Israel unless they >>>>> think that their deaths will somehow cause their many supporters in the >>>>> West Bank rise up against the IDF. Otherwise, it really does seem like >>>>> deliberate suicide.
When is the foreign force supposed to arrive and take up their duties? >>>>
interest in being fired upon by Hamas or having to face international
criticism for failures of aid distribution.
Agreed. I was quite surprised when the composition of the stablization force was announced and couldn't figure out why those countries would sign on to it. Trump must have offered them something HUGE. (Or they were just virtue-signalling and never had any intention of coming through with troops.>
I haven't heard anything yet about that, just that the US forces that will
coordinate them are setting up outside Gaza. Or have the foreign forces >>>>> already weaseled out? I'm deeply skeptical of this outside force given >>>>> that most of them are Muslims and must surely be sympathetic to their >>>>> co-religionists. I would think their deeper loyalties would be to the >>>>> Palestinians rather than their own leaders.
Could *that* be Hamas' plan? Count on their Arab brothers not to show up >>>>> or to make an absolute hash of their role so that the US has to take >>>>> over?
Broken promises in the Middle East? That's completely unheard of.
Then they could launch a fresh jihad against the Great Satan
instead of settling for the Lesser Satan of Israel. That would surely >>>>> motivate their base. They'd surely lose against the US but could all >>>>> gloriously go to their heaven as martyrs and enjoy their 72 virgins, >>>>> which might be a real happily ever after moment for them. Or do they >>>>> think the other Muslim nations would rise up to help them fight the US, >>>>> in which case they could conceivably win, although it still seems like a >>>>> stretch.
It's possible.
Actually, assholes, what happened is that an Israeli bulldozer ran over unexploded Israeli ordinance as it was illegally destroying Palestinian homes in Rafah. There was no "Hamas attack." Netanyahu imposed a ban on news coverage of the incident and used it as excuse to murder 47 more Palestinians. And the genocide apologists in this newsgroup lapped up the lies, as usual.
Ryan Grim:
Soon after the explosion in Rafah, I?m told by a source familiar, the White House and Pentagon knew that the incident was caused by an Israeli settler bulldozer running over unexploded ordnance ? contradicting Netanyahu?s claim that Hamas had popped up from tunnels.
After Netanyahu said he was blocking all aid from entering Gaza in response, and unleashed a bombing campaign, the administration conveyed to Israel that they know what happened. Netanyahu then announced he would re-open the crossings in a few hours.
https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1979973964719124613
both of which are reliably "progressive" and none of them mention a bulldozer or settlers. They report that the two men killed were a major and a sergeant in the IDF.>
Meanwhile, I can only find reporting from Ryan Grim in minor publications I've never heard of so I'm not inclined to put his reliability over that of internationally known sources. >
Younis Tirawi (reliable observer posting from Gaza):
Summary of what actually happened in Rafah
The incident has no connection to Hamas, nor to any operation or clash of that kind.
A group of settlers who own private companies for demolishing houses have been continuing for a week to demolish what remains of Rafah's
houses. Today, two of them were injured, most likely due to an explosive device that their vehicle passed over.
https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1979884789269143880
Caitlin Johnstone, Israel Flipped Out And Killed 45 Palestinians After Running Over Their Own Bomb
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/israel-flipped-out-and-killed-45
In fact, Hamas has observed the ceasefire because they are desperate for one, and Israel has continuously violated the truce agreement because it has no desire to end the war.
Hamas was supposed to disarm and get out of Gaza but they took advantage of the IDF withdrawing to agreed-upon lines to settle scores with people in Gaza who opposed them. They've shot quite a few of them already. This doesn't sound like the actions of a group desperate for peace.
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