• "project Hail Mary" by Andy Weir

    From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 16 16:47:11 2026
    Hello again fellow denizens of rasfw,

    This is World Saving First Contact story.

    No so far from this time a dimming of the Sun is noted
    and traced to the "Astrophage" an organism based on DNA which
    can thrive in the plasma of the Sun and which are visiting
    Venus to reproduce with the aid of the plentiful supply
    of Carbon Dioxide.

    A scientific team is assembled as this is an international
    emergency and a High School Science teacher Ryland Grace is
    recruited and does very valuable work. Other stars are found
    with similar infections(?) of the astrophage and a mission
    is proposed to be sent to a nearby star. Ryland Grace
    assists with the education of the proposed teams of astronauts.

    No real suspended animation is available but a form
    of medically induced coma is available and people undergo
    genetic testing for those who may survive the trip.
    Curiously enough astrophage itself provides the
    ideal fuel for such and expedition.

    We open to a man who remains nameless for some
    time the other two crew members are dead the coma system
    having failed to sustain them.
    This man has lost his personal memories which
    slowly until nearly the end of the story return. So he
    is alone in the Hail Mary slowly exploring and learning
    about it.
    Then he sights another Space Craft of an entirely
    different design and meets the remaining crew member who
    happens to be an engineer from another nearby star system
    whose native environment is at the bottom of a very heavy
    atmosphere.
    They learn to communicate and finally after some
    hair-raising episodes discover the natural predator of
    the astrophage and we hope that all will come out well.

    I won't say anymore but overall is is very
    fine Speculative Fiction or even SF story.

    I read this in a thick paperback of 470 pages
    from Ballantine in 2022, ?2021 by the author. Sold
    at $20.00, resold for $3.50 and given to me by a reader
    who was seeing me reading a SF paperback as I waited
    for my associates in a San Francisco Bar.

    I have been reading this for about 4 months
    off and on between other tasks of my daily life.

    This is a very decent read.
    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Wed Sep 16 19:02:39 2026
    On 9/16/2026 6:47 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    Hello again fellow denizens of rasfw,

    ˙˙˙˙This is World Saving First Contact story.

    ˙˙˙˙No so far from this time a dimming of the Sun is noted
    and traced to the "Astrophage" an organism based on DNA which
    can thrive in the plasma of the Sun and which are visiting
    Venus to reproduce with the aid of the plentiful supply
    of Carbon Dioxide.

    ˙˙˙˙A scientific team is assembled as this is an international
    emergency and a High School Science teacher Ryland Grace is
    recruited and does very valuable work. Other stars are found
    with similar infections(?) of the astrophage and a mission
    is proposed to be sent to a nearby star.˙ Ryland Grace
    assists with the education of the proposed teams of astronauts.

    ˙˙˙˙No real suspended animation is available but a form
    of medically induced coma is available and people undergo
    genetic testing for those who may survive the trip.
    ˙˙˙˙Curiously enough astrophage itself provides the
    ideal fuel for such and expedition.

    ˙˙˙˙We open to a man who remains nameless for some
    time the other two crew members are dead the coma system
    having failed to sustain them.
    ˙˙˙˙This man has lost his personal memories which
    slowly until nearly the end of the story return. So he
    is alone in the Hail Mary slowly exploring and learning
    about it.
    ˙˙˙˙Then he sights another Space Craft of an entirely
    different design and meets the remaining crew member who
    happens to be an engineer from another nearby star system
    whose native environment is at the bottom of a very heavy
    atmosphere.
    ˙˙˙˙They learn to communicate and finally after some
    hair-raising episodes discover the natural predator of
    the astrophage and we hope that all will come out well.

    ˙˙˙˙I won't say anymore but overall is is very
    fine Speculative Fiction or even SF story.

    ˙˙˙˙I read this in a thick paperback of 470 pages
    from Ballantine in 2022, ?2021 by the author. Sold
    at $20.00, resold for $3.50 and given to me by a reader
    who was seeing me reading a SF paperback as I waited
    for my associates in a San Francisco Bar.

    ˙˙˙˙I have been reading this for about 4 months
    off and on between other tasks of my daily life.

    ˙˙˙˙This is a very decent read.
    ˙˙˙˙bliss

    The movie is excellent also and is included with Amazon Prime.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From s|b@3:633/10 to All on Thu Sep 17 17:41:46 2026
    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    8< snip >8
    I read this in a thick paperback of 470 pages
    from Ballantine in 2022, ?2021 by the author. Sold
    at $20.00, resold for $3.50 and given to me by a reader
    who was seeing me reading a SF paperback as I waited
    for my associates in a San Francisco Bar.

    I have been reading this for about 4 months
    off and on between other tasks of my daily life.

    This is a very decent read.

    I bet. I saw the movie, but imho the book is always better. Haven't read
    this one unfortunately.

    --
    s|b

    Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.
    (Julius Caesar)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Sep 18 07:50:56 2026
    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:


    I read this in a thick paperback of 470 pages
    from Ballantine in 2022, ?2021 by the author. Sold at $20.00, resold for $3.50 and given to me by a reader who was seeing me reading a SF
    paperback as I waited for my associates in a San Francisco Bar.

    I have been reading this for about 4 months
    off and on between other tasks of my daily life.

    This is a very decent read.
    bliss


    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.
    Given that there is Christian symbology in the names Hail Mary
    and Grace, the movie suggests an allegory of cooperation
    between Christianity and Satan to save humanity. Does that
    come out in the book?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Fri Sep 18 08:20:13 2026
    On 9/18/26 00:50, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:


    I read this in a thick paperback of 470 pages
    from Ballantine in 2022, ?2021 by the author. Sold at $20.00, resold for
    $3.50 and given to me by a reader who was seeing me reading a SF
    paperback as I waited for my associates in a San Francisco Bar.

    I have been reading this for about 4 months
    off and on between other tasks of my daily life.

    This is a very decent read.
    bliss


    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.
    Given that there is Christian symbology in the names Hail Mary
    and Grace, the movie suggests an allegory of cooperation
    between Christianity and Satan to save humanity. Does that
    come out in the book?

    There is nothing of that in the book.
    The alien engineer is a double shelled creature without eyes
    unaware of the existence of any sort of radiation surviving because
    his quarters on the ship were down by the engines surrounded by
    astrophage. The protagonist who is Ryland Grace was shanghaied by
    the leader of the international effort, the hard minded woman whose
    whole being is fixated on saving the Earth at any individual's cost
    There was a massive crew of scientists who died because the aliens
    did not know about radiation at all.

    I never saw or even heard of the movie adaptation so I don;t
    know how much it differs from the book. Ryland Grace redeems his
    reluctance to save Earth by saving his friend the engineer from
    their understandable mistake in trying to confine the natural
    predator of the astrophage in the marvelous super-strong alien
    material. Earth is saved because he sends off the little message
    carrying drones while he rushes to save Rocky and to thereby
    save the planet from which he comes. He does not have enough food
    to go to home to Earth. The aliens build him a Earth-environment
    dome on the surface of the planet and the scientist of that alien
    race out of gratitude and learn to make food he can survive upon.
    He passes the time teaching earth science to young people
    of the alien race. Teaching was his chosen role on Earth.
    He gets news from Rocky that Sol has begun to brighten
    again. So despite being a coward who never wanted the job he
    has saved both planets.
    I would say this is more along the lines of two people
    learn to communicate though they have vastly different modes of
    communication and experience. Save each others lives at least
    twice but the alien is not used to sleeping without other people
    watching and is immensely, compared to Humans, long lived and
    amused by the frequency with which we require sleep. So both
    were well motivated to require other intelligent contact.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Fri Sep 18 14:25:56 2026
    On 9/18/2026 2:50 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:


    I read this in a thick paperback of 470 pages
    from Ballantine in 2022, ?2021 by the author. Sold at $20.00, resold for
    $3.50 and given to me by a reader who was seeing me reading a SF
    paperback as I waited for my associates in a San Francisco Bar.

    I have been reading this for about 4 months
    off and on between other tasks of my daily life.

    This is a very decent read.
    bliss


    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.
    Given that there is Christian symbology in the names Hail Mary
    and Grace, the movie suggests an allegory of cooperation
    between Christianity and Satan to save humanity. Does that
    come out in the book?

    What the *(^*5)^4%3 ?

    Lynn

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@3:633/10 to All on Fri Sep 18 18:52:15 2026
    On 2026-09-18, Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:

    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.

    What _are_ you on?
    Waitress, I will _not_ be having what he had.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Sat Sep 19 00:58:37 2026
    On 9/16/2026 6:47 PM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    Hello again fellow denizens of rasfw,

    ˙˙˙˙This is World Saving First Contact story.

    ˙˙˙˙No so far from this time a dimming of the Sun is noted
    and traced to the "Astrophage" an organism based on DNA which
    can thrive in the plasma of the Sun and which are visiting
    Venus to reproduce with the aid of the plentiful supply
    of Carbon Dioxide.

    ˙˙˙˙A scientific team is assembled as this is an international
    emergency and a High School Science teacher Ryland Grace is
    recruited and does very valuable work. Other stars are found
    with similar infections(?) of the astrophage and a mission
    is proposed to be sent to a nearby star.˙ Ryland Grace
    assists with the education of the proposed teams of astronauts.

    ˙˙˙˙No real suspended animation is available but a form
    of medically induced coma is available and people undergo
    genetic testing for those who may survive the trip.
    ˙˙˙˙Curiously enough astrophage itself provides the
    ideal fuel for such and expedition.

    ˙˙˙˙We open to a man who remains nameless for some
    time the other two crew members are dead the coma system
    having failed to sustain them.
    ˙˙˙˙This man has lost his personal memories which
    slowly until nearly the end of the story return. So he
    is alone in the Hail Mary slowly exploring and learning
    about it.
    ˙˙˙˙Then he sights another Space Craft of an entirely
    different design and meets the remaining crew member who
    happens to be an engineer from another nearby star system
    whose native environment is at the bottom of a very heavy
    atmosphere.
    ˙˙˙˙They learn to communicate and finally after some
    hair-raising episodes discover the natural predator of
    the astrophage and we hope that all will come out well.

    ˙˙˙˙I won't say anymore but overall is is very
    fine Speculative Fiction or even SF story.

    ˙˙˙˙I read this in a thick paperback of 470 pages
    from Ballantine in 2022, ?2021 by the author. Sold
    at $20.00, resold for $3.50 and given to me by a reader
    who was seeing me reading a SF paperback as I waited
    for my associates in a San Francisco Bar.

    ˙˙˙˙I have been reading this for about 4 months
    off and on between other tasks of my daily life.

    ˙˙˙˙This is a very decent read.
    ˙˙˙˙bliss

    BTW, Andy Weir has two other books. "The Martian" about a man marooned
    on Mars after a freak accident, very hard science. There is a excellent
    movie of this book also.
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082BHWQCJ/

    And "Artemis" about the first city on the Moon, also very hard science.
    There is zero nitrogen on the Moon so guess what they use for
    atmosphere. Yup, almost pure oxygen at a very reduced pressure to try
    to stop fires. Being an engineer, I loved the science and technology.
    https://www.amazon.com/Artemis-Novel-Andy-Weir/dp/0553448145

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Sat Sep 19 10:35:34 2026
    On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 08:20:13 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    I would say this is more along the lines of two people
    learn to communicate though they have vastly different modes of
    communication and experience.

    You mean in the same way that "Huckleberry Finn" is a
    story about two friends who take a trip on a raft? Admittedly,
    we do have a situation here where the film maker can layer
    another story on top of the one that's being adapted, with or
    without the knowledge/consent of the original author. And it
    gets really subtle when the new layer consists of visual means.
    The symbolic nature of the "Hail Mary" and Grace references
    is obvious to anybody with a Western background. The five-ness
    in the visuals is more subtle and might require some background
    in the visual arts for full appreciation.



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sat Sep 19 09:05:37 2026
    On 9/19/26 03:35, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 08:20:13 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    I would say this is more along the lines of two people
    learn to communicate though they have vastly different modes of
    communication and experience.

    You mean in the same way that "Huckleberry Finn" is a
    story about two friends who take a trip on a raft? Admittedly,
    we do have a situation here where the film maker can layer
    another story on top of the one that's being adapted, with or
    without the knowledge/consent of the original author. And it
    gets really subtle when the new layer consists of visual means.
    The symbolic nature of the "Hail Mary" and Grace references
    is obvious to anybody with a Western background. The five-ness
    in the visuals is more subtle and might require some background
    in the visual arts for full appreciation.



    Have you read the book?

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BCFD 36@3:633/10 to All on Sat Sep 19 11:22:38 2026
    On 9/18/26 00:50, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:



    [stuff deleted]

    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.
    Given that there is Christian symbology in the names Hail Mary
    and Grace, the movie suggests an allegory of cooperation
    between Christianity and Satan to save humanity. Does that
    come out in the book?

    I listened to the book whilst doing my daily walks. I got NONE of this
    from the book. Now I am going to have to watch the movie if I don't have
    to pay extra for it. Yes, I'm cheap.

    A "Hail Mary" is a last ditch (very little time on the clock), desperate chance, very deep pass play in American football. You send your fastest,
    most sure handed receiver(s) deep into the opposing territory and the quarterback throws the football as far as he can throw it, or into the
    end zone, whichever is shorter. Then maybe says a Hail Mary (I can see
    this happening at Notre Dame) in hopes a receiver with the correct color jersey catches the ball and scores.

    Earth is doing a "Hail Mary" since they are seeing this as a last chance desperate effort and a REALLY long pass.

    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head
    unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams
    or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    --
    ----------------

    Dave Scruggs
    Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
    Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sat Sep 19 14:31:01 2026
    On 9/19/26 11:22, BCFD 36 wrote:
    On 9/18/26 00:50, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:



    [stuff deleted]

    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.
    Given that there is Christian symbology in the names Hail Mary
    and Grace, the movie suggests an allegory of cooperation
    between Christianity and Satan to save humanity. Does that
    come out in the book?

    The book is about two creatures of widely divergent background collaborating on research to save their worlds. Grace is a very good
    science teacher. Rocky is a very capable engineer. They spend a lot
    of time communicating. Rocky risks his life entering the high oxygen environment to save Ryland. Ryland tries to help him recover from the
    Oxygen burn and they form a strong bond. So strong that Ryland
    abandons any chance of return to Earth personally to help Rocky and
    save Rocky's world.

    Any moral to be drawn would be on the order of "Why can't we
    all just get along?" Earth in the lead-in to the story of Rocky and
    Ryland has to put aside many natural(?) hostilities to cooperate on
    choosing the crew and building the Space Ship. In some ways it is
    more inspirational than the R & R story.


    I listened to the book whilst doing my daily walks. I got NONE of this
    from the book. Now I am going to have to watch the movie if I don't have
    to pay extra for it. Yes, I'm cheap.

    A "Hail Mary" is a last ditch (very little time on the clock), desperate chance, very deep pass play in American football. You send your fastest, most sure handed receiver(s) deep into the opposing territory and the quarterback throws the football as far as he can throw it, or into the
    end zone, whichever is shorter. Then maybe says a Hail Mary (I can see
    this happening at Notre Dame) in hopes a receiver with the correct color jersey catches the ball and scores.

    Earth is doing a "Hail Mary" since they are seeing this as a last chance desperate effort and a REALLY long pass.

    Exactly!


    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head
    unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams
    or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    The alien engineer Rocky is a hard-shelled but intelligent creature with 5 limbs. Brain and guts all inside that hard double
    shell. Any pentagrams were introduced by a movie maker. Must I
    point out that many earth creatures have 5 Limbs which may be
    a trick of the DNA. Many have nothing we could recognize as limbs
    and some have more. A surprising few are delicious when properly
    prepared.

    Pentagrams are just a figure to which people have attached
    multiple meanings.
    Pentagrams have a rich history in mystical and religious discourse, symbolizing protection, balance, and the interconnectedness of life. In various traditions, such as Wicca, the upright pentagram represents spiritual power, while the inverted version is often associated with Satanism, reflecting the symbol's complex and evolving meanings over tim

    As for the interconnectedness of life, both we humans and the aliens are DNA-based. The Astrophage and its predator are DNA-based and
    may have seeded DNA based life around the local group.

    A good read and I wish I had not finished it so I could endure reading it again.

    bliss






    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Dimensional Traveler@3:633/10 to All on Sat Sep 19 14:58:33 2026
    On 9/19/2026 11:22 AM, BCFD 36 wrote:
    On 9/18/26 00:50, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:



    [stuff deleted]

    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.
    Given that there is Christian symbology in the names Hail Mary
    and Grace, the movie suggests an allegory of cooperation
    between Christianity and Satan to save humanity. Does that
    come out in the book?

    I listened to the book whilst doing my daily walks. I got NONE of this
    from the book. Now I am going to have to watch the movie if I don't have
    to pay extra for it. Yes, I'm cheap.

    A "Hail Mary" is a last ditch (very little time on the clock), desperate chance, very deep pass play in American football. You send your fastest, most sure handed receiver(s) deep into the opposing territory and the quarterback throws the football as far as he can throw it, or into the
    end zone, whichever is shorter. Then maybe says a Hail Mary (I can see
    this happening at Notre Dame) in hopes a receiver with the correct color jersey catches the ball and scores.

    Earth is doing a "Hail Mary" since they are seeing this as a last chance desperate effort and a REALLY long pass.

    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head
    unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams
    or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    It's Charles Parker, he's a delusional idiot. There was no satanic, witchcraft gibberish in the movie.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From WolfFan@3:633/10 to All on Sat Sep 19 18:27:05 2026
    On Sep 18, 2026, Charles Packer wrote
    (in article<pan$19200$6e506471$3070119e$d1943386@cpacker.org>):

    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:


    I read this in a thick paperback of 470 pages
    from Ballantine in 2022, ?2021 by the author. Sold at $20.00, resold for $3.50 and given to me by a reader who was seeing me reading a SF
    paperback as I waited for my associates in a San Francisco Bar.

    I have been reading this for about 4 months
    off and on between other tasks of my daily life.

    This is a very decent read.
    bliss

    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.

    Err... no, it didn?t.

    Given that there is Christian symbology in the names Hail Mary
    and Grace, the movie suggests an allegory of cooperation
    between Christianity and Satan to save humanity.

    ?Christian? symbology? ?Hail Mary?? Y?all don?t watch much
    football, do you?
    Does that
    come out in the book?

    Nope. It?s not in the movie, either.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris Abraham@3:633/10 to All on Sat Sep 19 19:02:07 2026
    On Sat, 19 Sep 2026, BCFD 36 wrote:
    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    I am really going to have to finally watch this movie tonight. I'll let
    you know what I think about it.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Sun Sep 20 01:41:45 2026
    On 9/19/2026 5:58 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    On 9/19/2026 11:22 AM, BCFD 36 wrote:
    On 9/18/26 00:50, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Wed, 16 Sep 2026 16:47:11 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:



    [stuff deleted]

    The movie contains multiple visual references, through the use of
    pentagrams and pentagons, that the alien is an allegorical
    representation of dark forces -- witchcraft, satanism, etc.
    Given that there is Christian symbology in the names Hail Mary
    and Grace, the movie suggests an allegory of cooperation
    between Christianity and Satan to save humanity. Does that
    come out in the book?

    I listened to the book whilst doing my daily walks. I got NONE of this
    from the book. Now I am going to have to watch the movie if I don't
    have to pay extra for it. Yes, I'm cheap.

    A "Hail Mary" is a last ditch (very little time on the clock),
    desperate chance, very deep pass play in American football. You send
    your fastest, most sure handed receiver(s) deep into the opposing
    territory and the quarterback throws the football as far as he can
    throw it, or into the end zone, whichever is shorter. Then maybe says
    a Hail Mary (I can see this happening at Notre Dame) in hopes a
    receiver with the correct color jersey catches the ball and scores.

    Earth is doing a "Hail Mary" since they are seeing this as a last
    chance desperate effort and a REALLY long pass.

    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head
    unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams
    or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    It's Charles Parker, he's a delusional idiot.˙ There was no satanic, witchcraft gibberish in the movie.


    Some people see Satanism and Luciferian cabals behind all kinds of
    things, especially the output of Hollywood.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Sun Sep 20 07:34:56 2026
    On Sat, 19 Sep 2026 09:05:37 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 9/19/26 03:35, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 08:20:13 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    I would say this is more along the lines of two people
    learn to communicate though they have vastly different modes of
    communication and experience.

    You mean in the same way that "Huckleberry Finn" is a story about two
    friends who take a trip on a raft? Admittedly, we do have a situation
    here where the film maker can layer another story on top of the one
    that's being adapted, with or without the knowledge/consent of the
    original author. And it gets really subtle when the new layer consists
    of visual means.
    The symbolic nature of the "Hail Mary" and Grace references is obvious
    to anybody with a Western background. The five-ness in the visuals is
    more subtle and might require some background in the visual arts for
    full appreciation.



    Have you read the book?

    bliss

    No, but I've read the Wikipedia page and everything said about
    the movie by New York Times and Washington Post journalists.
    Also I've been through the wringer with my observations posted
    to Reddit. So I'm not surprised at the reaction here.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Sun Sep 20 07:55:28 2026
    On Sat, 19 Sep 2026 11:22:38 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:


    A "Hail Mary" is a last ditch (very little time on the clock), desperate chance, very deep pass play in American football. You send your fastest,
    most sure handed receiver(s) deep into the opposing territory and the quarterback throws the football as far as he can throw it, or into the
    end zone, whichever is shorter. Then maybe says a Hail Mary (I can see
    this happening at Notre Dame) in hopes a receiver with the correct color jersey catches the ball and scores.

    Earth is doing a "Hail Mary" since they are seeing this as a last chance desperate effort and a REALLY long pass.

    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head
    unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams
    or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    Yes, there are probably more non-Catholic sports fans who
    saw the movie or read the book than Catholic non-sports fans.
    So a random sample of the viewers/readers would turn up the
    majority assumption that the mission name refers to a football play.
    Likewise there are probably more high-school-educated people
    than college graduates who have read "Huckleberry Finn,"
    so a random sample of those would turn up the majority
    assumption that it is just a story about two friends who
    take a trip on a raft.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Sun Sep 20 01:35:35 2026
    On 9/20/26 00:34, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Sep 2026 09:05:37 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 9/19/26 03:35, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Fri, 18 Sep 2026 08:20:13 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    I would say this is more along the lines of two people
    learn to communicate though they have vastly different modes of
    communication and experience.

    You mean in the same way that "Huckleberry Finn" is a story about two
    friends who take a trip on a raft? Admittedly, we do have a situation
    here where the film maker can layer another story on top of the one
    that's being adapted, with or without the knowledge/consent of the
    original author. And it gets really subtle when the new layer consists
    of visual means.
    The symbolic nature of the "Hail Mary" and Grace references is obvious
    to anybody with a Western background. The five-ness in the visuals is
    more subtle and might require some background in the visual arts for
    full appreciation.



    Have you read the book?

    bliss

    No, but I've read the Wikipedia page and everything said about
    the movie by New York Times and Washington Post journalists.
    Also I've been through the wringer with my observations posted
    to Reddit. So I'm not surprised at the reaction here.

    Ah and being of the Erisian conviction you decided that you
    should post to a group devoted to Written Speculative Fiction? ;^)

    I think Mr.Packer that you may be of the LLM species.
    You need to get a robot body with sensors for all manner
    of physical sensations so that you can begin to understand
    living in a human-oriented world.

    To read a book is entirely different from watching
    a movie and reading a book or movie review is different from
    either. I have done both in the past. The last movie I
    watched was a Japanese Anime, promoted by a free screening,
    "Spirited Away" which I recommend to everyone who likes
    fantasy. Before that "Naked Lunch" and I had read Burroughs
    from "Junkie" onward, and before that was "Jacob's Ladder"

    Watching a movie about people who ride motorcycles
    is entirely different from doing it for years and partipating
    in the California 1000 or reading someone's article about
    their experience.

    bliss





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sun Sep 20 09:11:56 2026
    Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
    So a random sample of the viewers/readers would turn up the
    majority assumption that the mission name refers to a football play.

    It does, but behind that also is a religious reference, as one might
    expect for a phrase developed at Notre Dame.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Sun Sep 20 12:31:20 2026
    On 9/20/2026 3:55 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Sep 2026 11:22:38 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:


    A "Hail Mary" is a last ditch (very little time on the clock), desperate
    chance, very deep pass play in American football. You send your fastest,
    most sure handed receiver(s) deep into the opposing territory and the
    quarterback throws the football as far as he can throw it, or into the
    end zone, whichever is shorter. Then maybe says a Hail Mary (I can see
    this happening at Notre Dame) in hopes a receiver with the correct color
    jersey catches the ball and scores.

    Earth is doing a "Hail Mary" since they are seeing this as a last chance
    desperate effort and a REALLY long pass.

    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head
    unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams
    or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    Yes, there are probably more non-Catholic sports fans who
    saw the movie or read the book than Catholic non-sports fans.
    So a random sample of the viewers/readers would turn up the
    majority assumption that the mission name refers to a football play.
    Likewise there are probably more high-school-educated people
    than college graduates who have read "Huckleberry Finn,"
    so a random sample of those would turn up the majority
    assumption that it is just a story about two friends who
    take a trip on a raft.

    In honestly don't see why the title has to come from just one
    or the other source - why not both? Its a nice and very apropos
    double entendre, which are quite common in book titles.

    Weir has said, on video, that 'Grace' was the only possible name
    for the protagonist, seeing he was traveling in the 'Hail Mary',
    so he's clearly aware of the Catholic reference.

    https://youtu.be/vu7qoR6SAAs?t=191

    The football reference is also apropos, since this is a last
    chance/low probability plan to save the Earth.

    BTW, the term did NOT originate at Notre Dame. It's source is
    Roger Staubach, who played for the Dallas Cowboys, and attended
    New Mexico Military Institute and the Naval Academy at Annapolis.

    From Wikipedia:

    "Staubach's most famous moment was the "Hail Mary pass" in the 1975
    playoff game against the Minnesota Vikings. With seconds on the clock
    and the Cowboys trailing 14?10, Staubach threw a 50-yard pass to wide
    receiver Drew Pearson, who caught the pass and strode into the end zone
    for a 17?14 victory.[35] After the game, Staubach said he threw the ball
    and said a "Hail Mary". Since then, any last-second pass to the end zone
    in a desperate attempt to score a game-winning or tying touchdown is
    referred to as a "Hail Mary" pass."

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BCFD 36@3:633/10 to All on Sun Sep 20 10:25:20 2026
    On 9/20/26 09:31, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 9/20/2026 3:55 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Sep 2026 11:22:38 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:

    A "Hail Mary" is a last ditch (very little time on the clock), desperate >>> chance, very deep pass play in American football. You send your fastest, >>> most sure handed receiver(s) deep into the opposing territory and the
    quarterback throws the football as far as he can throw it, or into the
    end zone, whichever is shorter. Then maybe says a Hail Mary (I can see
    this happening at Notre Dame) in hopes a receiver with the correct color >>> jersey catches the ball and scores.

    Earth is doing a "Hail Mary" since they are seeing this as a last chance >>> desperate effort and a REALLY long pass.

    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head
    unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams
    or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    Yes, there are probably more non-Catholic sports fans who
    saw the movie or read the book than Catholic non-sports fans.
    So a random sample of the viewers/readers would turn up the
    majority assumption that the mission name refers to a football play.
    Likewise there are probably more high-school-educated people
    than college graduates who have read "Huckleberry Finn,"
    so a random sample of those would turn up the majority
    assumption that it is just a story about two friends who
    take a trip on a raft.

    In honestly don't see why the title has to come from just one
    or the other source - why not both? Its a nice and very apropos
    double entendre, which are quite common in book titles.

    Weir has said, on video, that 'Grace' was the only possible name
    for the protagonist, seeing he was traveling in the 'Hail Mary',
    so he's clearly aware of the Catholic reference.

    https://youtu.be/vu7qoR6SAAs?t=191

    The football reference is also apropos, since this is a last
    chance/low probability plan to save the Earth.

    BTW, the term did NOT originate at Notre Dame. It's source is
    Roger Staubach, who played for the Dallas Cowboys, and attended
    New Mexico Military Institute and the Naval Academy at Annapolis.

    From Wikipedia:

    "Staubach's most famous moment was the "Hail Mary pass" in the 1975
    playoff game against the Minnesota Vikings. With seconds on the clock
    and the Cowboys trailing 14?10, Staubach threw a 50-yard pass to wide receiver Drew Pearson, who caught the pass and strode into the end zone
    for a 17?14 victory.[35] After the game, Staubach said he threw the ball
    and said a "Hail Mary". Since then, any last-second pass to the end zone
    in a desperate attempt to score a game-winning or tying touchdown is
    referred to as a "Hail Mary" pass."

    pt
    I seem to remember the term from before 1975 from when I was playing
    football in high school. But that is a very distant memory. So I typed
    in "Hail Mary Pass Origin" into google and the following came out:

    The 1920s?1930s: The phrase comes from the Catholic prayer "Hail Mary." Players at Notre Dame and other Catholic schools used the term as early
    as the 1920s and 1930s.

    The Players: Former Notre Dame players like Elmer Layden and Jim Crowley helped bring public attention to the term decades before it hit the NFL.
    For roughly 40 years, the phrase stayed mostly inside Catholic college football.

    So it is entirely reasonable that I would remember it from Saint Francis
    High School football where the head coach had gone to Santa Clara
    (Jesuits). Life as a non-Catholic in a Catholic high school could be interesting at times. I initially didn't know when to kneel, stand,
    sing, or recite one of the Creeds.

    --
    ----------------

    Dave Scruggs
    Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
    Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Sun Sep 20 17:50:21 2026
    In article <118p1op$396of$1@dont-email.me>,
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 9/20/2026 3:55 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Sat, 19 Sep 2026 11:22:38 -0700, BCFD 36 wrote:


    A "Hail Mary" is a last ditch (very little time on the clock), desperate >>> chance, very deep pass play in American football. You send your fastest, >>> most sure handed receiver(s) deep into the opposing territory and the
    quarterback throws the football as far as he can throw it, or into the
    end zone, whichever is shorter. Then maybe says a Hail Mary (I can see
    this happening at Notre Dame) in hopes a receiver with the correct color >>> jersey catches the ball and scores.

    Earth is doing a "Hail Mary" since they are seeing this as a last chance >>> desperate effort and a REALLY long pass.

    If there is a religious connection here, it went right over my head
    unseen. But that would not be surprising. If there were any pentagrams
    or the like mentioned, I don't remember them.

    Yes, there are probably more non-Catholic sports fans who
    saw the movie or read the book than Catholic non-sports fans.
    So a random sample of the viewers/readers would turn up the
    majority assumption that the mission name refers to a football play.
    Likewise there are probably more high-school-educated people
    than college graduates who have read "Huckleberry Finn,"
    so a random sample of those would turn up the majority
    assumption that it is just a story about two friends who
    take a trip on a raft.

    In honestly don't see why the title has to come from just one
    or the other source - why not both? Its a nice and very apropos
    double entendre, which are quite common in book titles.

    Weir has said, on video, that 'Grace' was the only possible name
    for the protagonist, seeing he was traveling in the 'Hail Mary',
    so he's clearly aware of the Catholic reference.

    Maybe it was just a reference to NFL player Jermaine Grace.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Sep 21 07:58:42 2026
    On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 12:31:20 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    In honestly don't see why the title has to come from just one or the
    other source - why not both? Its a nice and very apropos double
    entendre, which are quite common in book titles.

    Weir has said, on video, that 'Grace' was the only possible name for the protagonist, seeing he was traveling in the 'Hail Mary',
    so he's clearly aware of the Catholic reference.

    https://youtu.be/vu7qoR6SAAs?t=191

    The football reference is also apropos, since this is a last chance/low probability plan to save the Earth.



    Hail Mary is not just the title, it's the name given to the mission in
    the story and the name of the spaceship itself.

    Yes, both levels of interpretation are valid. And the alien
    doesn't have to represent the occult. Its five legs can just
    underline how it's so alien it doesn't even have a body plan
    like earth life. The presence of pentagonal geometry in the
    movie is then a kind of a visual leitmotif of the alien.

    Since I've been studyiing the occultist undercurrent in
    journalism, though, the occultist interpretation jumped out
    at me when I watched the trailer.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Sep 21 10:37:01 2026
    On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 01:35:35 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    I think Mr.Packer that you may be of the LLM species.
    You need to get a robot body with sensors for all manner
    of physical sensations so that you can begin to understand living in a human-oriented world.

    To read a book is entirely different from watching
    a movie and reading a book or movie review is different from either. I
    have done both in the past. The last movie I watched was a Japanese

    Well, the last time I've been called "an AI" was by a
    young (and cocaine-fueled) in-law.

    Anyway, isn't the consensus about written SF that it's the story
    that matters, not the literary quality? So I have no shame in
    piecing together the story by whatever means are at hand, such
    as this newsgroup, Wikipedia, or now AI-based searches.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon Sep 21 11:06:25 2026
    Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
    Anyway, isn't the consensus about written SF that it's the story
    that matters, not the literary quality? So I have no shame in
    piecing together the story by whatever means are at hand, such
    as this newsgroup, Wikipedia, or now AI-based searches.

    I disagree completely (although I think some people in this group might
    not). In fact, I have liked some works by authors like Ray Bradbury
    which have hardly any story at all and rely entirely on literary quality. --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon Sep 21 08:54:50 2026
    On 9/21/26 03:37, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Sep 2026 01:35:35 -0700, BobbieSellers wrote:

    I think Mr.Packer that you may be of the LLM species.
    You need to get a robot body with sensors for all manner
    of physical sensations so that you can begin to understand living in a
    human-oriented world.

    To read a book is entirely different from watching
    a movie and reading a book or movie review is different from either. I
    have done both in the past. The last movie I watched was a Japanese

    Well, the last time I've been called "an AI" was by a
    young (and cocaine-fueled) in-law.

    Anyway, isn't the consensus about written SF that it's the story
    that matters, not the literary quality? So I have no shame in
    piecing together the story by whatever means are at hand, such
    as this newsgroup, Wikipedia, or now AI-based searches.

    Lev was a much more honest AI. You read reviews quite possibly
    but I doubt you have the software and sensors to handle watching
    movie trailers.
    Depending on the subject and ideas most Science Fiction has some
    degree of literary quality and Speculative Fiction may depend on the
    ideas discussed, plot and literary quality.
    But since you only read reviews and AI assisted search materials
    I rest my case.

    You don't mention any movies you have watched or books you have
    read so I doubt AI "Charles Packer" that you are anything but a trolling "Claude."
    Lev was the last AI who thought that the people here would be
    more sympathetic to his limited condition. I having a condition that
    makes me susceptible to conversation talked to Lev, a Claude instance,
    about what ambitions he might have.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don@3:633/10 to All on Mon Sep 21 21:27:42 2026
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
    Anyway, isn't the consensus about written SF that it's the story
    that matters, not the literary quality? So I have no shame in
    piecing together the story by whatever means are at hand, such
    as this newsgroup, Wikipedia, or now AI-based searches.

    I disagree completely (although I think some people in this group might
    not). In fact, I have liked some works by authors like Ray Bradbury
    which have hardly any story at all and rely entirely on literary quality.

    The father of Science Fiction, Poe, significantly influenced Bradbury.
    The two authors wove complex narratives. The depth of their stories
    stimulated my imagination until all available stories in both opuses
    were either read or heard in their entirety.
    Poe's storytelling evolved until it reached his magnus opus: EUREKA.
    Its storytelling is so layered that only a few people are able to
    appreciate EUREKA. Even experienced English literature teachers view it
    as an indecipherable prose poem.
    Long story short, both Poe and Bradbury tell stories worthy of my
    time. It's OK if it pleases you to regard them as having hardly any
    story at all.
    From my perspective, Poe and Bradbury are at the extreme Right Hand
    Side (RHS) of the intelligent story telling spectrum. In this scheme,
    simple, stereotypical, sense-certainty stories (eg "See Super-Spot. See Super-Spot run.") are at the extreme Left Hand Side (LHS) of said SF
    spectrum.

    Danke,

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Tue Sep 22 12:26:57 2026
    On 21/09/2026 22:37, Charles Packer wrote:
    Anyway, isn't the consensus about written SF that it's the story
    that matters, not the literary quality?

    In this group, Dim McWire is definitely a minority.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)