• (ReacTor) Solving Population Decline Through Science Fiction

    From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jul 27 10:25:30 2026
    Solving Population Decline Through Science Fiction

    Real-world solutions might be expensive or politically unpopular,
    so why not take a page from SF?

    https://reactormag.com/solving-population-decline-through-science-fiction/
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jul 27 08:13:25 2026
    On 7/27/26 07:25, James Nicoll wrote:
    Solving Population Decline Through Science Fiction

    Real-world solutions might be expensive or politically unpopular,
    so why not take a page from SF?

    https://reactormag.com/solving-population-decline-through-science-fiction/

    And here is the real world experience:
    How to increase Birth Rate ? Lessons from Tokyo by emaglive <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/7/21/800073305/community/how-to-increase-birth-rate-lessons-from-tokyo/>

    Not too expensive when the product is so much desired.

    bliss



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jul 27 12:59:36 2026
    On 7/27/2026 11:13 AM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 7/27/26 07:25, James Nicoll wrote:
    Solving Population Decline Through Science Fiction

    Real-world solutions might be expensive or politically unpopular,
    so why not take a page from SF?

    https://reactormag.com/solving-population-decline-through-science-
    fiction/

    ˙˙˙˙And here is the real world experience:
    How to increase Birth Rate ? Lessons from Tokyo˙ by emaglive <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/7/21/800073305/community/how-to- increase-birth-rate-lessons-from-tokyo/>

    ˙˙˙˙Not too expensive when the product is so much desired.

    Interesting. That's the first time I've heard of a plan that might
    actually be working.

    At the moment, having kids is a massive financial drain on a
    couple or a single woman. That would have to be reversed.

    There's been 'bachelor taxes' on the childless since Roman
    times.

    We need to subsidize childbearing and raising to the point
    where 'mother' is a viable career path for women.

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From David Dalton@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jul 27 18:22:49 2026
    On Jul 27, 2026, James Nicoll wrote
    (in article <1147poq$g5$1@panix2.panix.com>):

    Solving Population Decline Through Science Fiction

    Real-world solutions might be expensive or politically unpopular,
    so why not take a page from SF?

    https://reactormag.com/solving-population-decline-through-science-fiction/

    If my sudden evolution works (maybe at Haida Clamshell
    Full Moon) homo sapiens and 432 aliens will merge
    and split and evolve to 60 species in human species
    group, 55 with an equivalent of 100 years in homo
    sapiens of 200 years and 5 (including the then former
    aliens) of 300 years.

    With this extra lifespan there would be no population decline.

    There would be delayed puberty and further delayed
    fertility, with fertility from the start of age 39 to the
    end of age 70 (so until we turn 71),and with a maximum
    of three children per woman, unless she has already
    had more. This will prevent overpopulation.

    However I have failed many times before, but keep
    hoping for the crackpot jackpot.

    --
    https://www.nfld.com/~dalton/dtales.html Salmon on the Thorns (mystic page) ?Early morning, jubilators, up to no good, instigators... Sons of long forgotten races, that the darkest night embraces? (Ron Hynes & D.O?D)


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jul 28 08:56:22 2026
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:59:36 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 7/27/2026 11:13 AM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 7/27/26 07:25, James Nicoll wrote:
    Solving Population Decline Through Science Fiction

    Real-world solutions might be expensive or politically unpopular,
    so why not take a page from SF?

    https://reactormag.com/solving-population-decline-through-science-
    fiction/

    ????And here is the real world experience:
    How to increase Birth Rate ? Lessons from Tokyo? by emaglive

    <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/7/21/800073305/community/how-to-
    increase-birth-rate-lessons-from-tokyo/>

    ????Not too expensive when the product is so much desired.

    Interesting. That's the first time I've heard of a plan that might
    actually be working.

    At the moment, having kids is a massive financial drain on a
    couple or a single woman. That would have to be reversed.

    My understanding is that kids have /always/ been a high-maintenance
    item.

    There's been 'bachelor taxes' on the childless since Roman
    times.

    IIRC, Athenian citizens (all male; the females were of the same class
    but not citizens) were required, by age 35, to have produced (in
    conjunction with his wife) at least one child or be fined one talent
    of gold. Which was lot of money, even for an Athenian citizen.

    We need to subsidize childbearing and raising to the point
    where 'mother' is a viable career path for women.

    All you need to do is show a 1%er how he can make money on the deal
    and it will happen.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jul 28 13:13:46 2026
    On 7/28/2026 11:56 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:59:36 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 7/27/2026 11:13 AM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 7/27/26 07:25, James Nicoll wrote:
    Solving Population Decline Through Science Fiction

    Real-world solutions might be expensive or politically unpopular,
    so why not take a page from SF?

    https://reactormag.com/solving-population-decline-through-science-
    fiction/

    ˙˙˙˙And here is the real world experience:
    How to increase Birth Rate ? Lessons from Tokyo˙ by emaglive
    <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/7/21/800073305/community/how-to-
    increase-birth-rate-lessons-from-tokyo/>

    ˙˙˙˙Not too expensive when the product is so much desired.

    Interesting. That's the first time I've heard of a plan that might
    actually be working.

    At the moment, having kids is a massive financial drain on a
    couple or a single woman. That would have to be reversed.

    My understanding is that kids have /always/ been a high-maintenance
    item.

    Less true in the past. Once the kid got to about 5, it could start to
    help around the house. Expenses were a lot lower.

    There's also the factor that before available and effective
    contraception, most married women didn't have much choice in the
    matter - they were going to have multiple kids regardless of
    there preferences.



    There's been 'bachelor taxes' on the childless since Roman
    times.

    IIRC, Athenian citizens (all male; the females were of the same class
    but not citizens) were required, by age 35, to have produced (in
    conjunction with his wife) at least one child or be fined one talent
    of gold. Which was lot of money, even for an Athenian citizen.

    Odd, that one doesn't get mentioned on the Wikipedia page for
    Bachelor Tax. If you have a citation, you could add it.

    There was a bachelor tax in Montana as recently as the 1920s.

    We need to subsidize childbearing and raising to the point
    where 'mother' is a viable career path for women.

    All you need to do is show a 1%er how he can make money on the deal
    and it will happen.

    Musk talks a lot about raising the birth rate (and has certainly put
    some *very* personal effort into it).

    I'd like to see him put his money where his mouth is, and pay bonuses,
    daycare, and healthcare for his employee's children.

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jul 28 13:14:30 2026
    On 7/28/26 11:07, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <114ao0a$7ovp$1@dont-email.me>,
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 7/28/2026 11:56 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:59:36 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 7/27/2026 11:13 AM, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 7/27/26 07:25, James Nicoll wrote:
    Solving Population Decline Through Science Fiction

    Real-world solutions might be expensive or politically unpopular,
    so why not take a page from SF?

    https://reactormag.com/solving-population-decline-through-science- >>>>>> fiction/

    ˙˙˙˙And here is the real world experience:
    How to increase Birth Rate ? Lessons from Tokyo˙ by emaglive
    <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/7/21/800073305/community/how-to- >>>>> increase-birth-rate-lessons-from-tokyo/>

    ˙˙˙˙Not too expensive when the product is so much desired.

    Interesting. That's the first time I've heard of a plan that might
    actually be working.

    At the moment, having kids is a massive financial drain on a
    couple or a single woman. That would have to be reversed.

    My understanding is that kids have /always/ been a high-maintenance
    item.

    Less true in the past. Once the kid got to about 5, it could start to
    help around the house. Expenses were a lot lower.

    There's also the factor that before available and effective
    contraception, most married women didn't have much choice in the
    matter - they were going to have multiple kids regardless of
    there preferences.


    That's not entirely true or Augustus wouldn't have had to bring in
    the Celebicy laws. Romans knew enough about sex to avoid having
    expensive Roman-Citizen kids. (And of course they weren't "celibate"
    in the modern sense: The men could enjoy certain acts with their
    wives, and have bastards with slaves & mistresses).

    There were contraceptives of various kinds and abortion medications available to the well off and the poor in ancient times.
    The ones in Greece were so popular the main ingredient, a plant
    went extinct.
    The whole point of the laws around abortion and celibacy
    was to keep up the number of people for the armies of the time.
    Because the Romans could not provide enough people for the armies
    we had non-Roman contingents attached to the armies in the field.

    bliss




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Michael Ikeda@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jul 28 21:16:44 2026
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextremeinvalid.com> wrote in news:114b2j7$bm4q$1@dont-email.me:

    Because the Romans could not provide enough people for the
    armies we had non-Roman contingents attached to the armies in
    the field.


    Rome had non-Roman contingents attached to the armies because that's
    what Rome did (all the way back to fairly early in the Roman
    Republic). It's how Rome won and held its empire.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jul 28 17:40:02 2026
    Michael Ikeda wrote:
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextremeinvalid.com> wrote in news:114b2j7$bm4q$1@dont-email.me:

    Because the Romans could not provide enough people for the
    armies we had non-Roman contingents attached to the armies in
    the field.


    Rome had non-Roman contingents attached to the armies because that's
    what Rome did (all the way back to fairly early in the Roman
    Republic). It's how Rome won and held its empire.

    And grew its citizen base. It wasn't unusual for auxiliaries to be
    given Roman citizenship, or at least Latin rights, after their term of service. For those who distinguished themselves in combat this was
    almost automatic. Sometimes whole units were enfranchised.

    Augustus was concerned about low birth rates in the upper classes.
    Under Roman law there were many offices that could be filled only by
    people of a certain wealth or ancestry. He needed educated able men to
    run the empire and as office was expensive (until you got your looting
    in) he needed them to be rich men.

    Augustus was a religious man, and four of the highest religious offices
    could only be filled by patricians (the priests of Mars, Jupiter and
    Romulus, plus the Rex Sacorum). The first three offices went unfilled
    for years which was considered to anger these gods. And the patricians
    were far less numerous than the plebeian nobility.

    William Hyde


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jul 29 09:23:34 2026
    On Tue, 28 Jul 2026 13:13:46 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 7/28/2026 11:56 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:59:36 -0400, Cryptoengineer
    <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    <snippo>


    There's been 'bachelor taxes' on the childless since Roman
    times.

    IIRC, Athenian citizens (all male; the females were of the same class
    but not citizens) were required, by age 35, to have produced (in
    conjunction with his wife) at least one child or be fined one talent
    of gold. Which was lot of money, even for an Athenian citizen.

    Odd, that one doesn't get mentioned on the Wikipedia page for
    Bachelor Tax. If you have a citation, you could add it.

    IIRC, I read it in /The Story of Civilization/, which is a CD
    containing the complete 11 volume set by Durant. My guess would be Vol
    2, /The Story of Greece/.

    It's actually on Amazon: <https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Story-Civilization-Renaissance-Reformati on-ebook/dp/B00HT53KV0> <https://www.amazon.com/Story-Civilization-Volumes-Hardcover-1963-1975/dp /B000OEA066>
    and your local library might have it on paper.

    I can't guarantee that that's where I read this, however. The disk
    cited above has access programs for DOS 3.3 and Windows 3.1. It is,
    IOW, not really useable.

    There was a bachelor tax in Montana as recently as the 1920s.

    We need to subsidize childbearing and raising to the point
    where 'mother' is a viable career path for women.

    All you need to do is show a 1%er how he can make money on the deal
    and it will happen.

    Musk talks a lot about raising the birth rate (and has certainly put
    some *very* personal effort into it).

    I'd like to see him put his money where his mouth is, and pay bonuses, >daycare, and healthcare for his employee's children.

    But ... but ... but ... that would /cost/ him money. He won't be
    interested in that at all.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jul 30 03:37:06 2026
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:59:36 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    We need to subsidize childbearing and raising to the point where
    'mother' is a viable career path for women.

    We need to incorporate advances in biotechnology, too (hey, this is an
    SF group after all). I think we need to become an egg-laying species
    -- then both parents can take turns gestating the young, it doesn?t
    all have to be on one sex.

    Or we could take Aldous Huxley?s ?Brave New World? approach of growing everybody in vats ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jul 30 14:50:30 2026
    On 7/29/2026 10:37 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:59:36 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    We need to subsidize childbearing and raising to the point where
    'mother' is a viable career path for women.

    We need to incorporate advances in biotechnology, too (hey, this is an
    SF group after all). I think we need to become an egg-laying species
    -- then both parents can take turns gestating the young, it doesn?t
    all have to be on one sex.

    Or we could take Aldous Huxley?s ?Brave New World? approach of growing everybody in vats ...

    I have wondered why God did not make humans marsupials.

    My wife's cousin's daughter just delivered a one pound baby, her third
    baby. The hospital NICU predicts that the baby will be released after
    three months care when they reach a healthy weight.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jul 30 21:43:41 2026
    On Thu, 30 Jul 2026 14:50:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    I have wondered why God did not make humans marsupials.

    That?s how ?intelligent design? would work, obviously.

    The obvious conclusion follows ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jul 30 22:05:40 2026
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Jul 2026 12:59:36 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    We need to subsidize childbearing and raising to the point where
    'mother' is a viable career path for women.

    We need to incorporate advances in biotechnology, too (hey, this is an
    SF group after all). I think we need to become an egg-laying species
    -- then both parents can take turns gestating the young, it doesn?t
    all have to be on one sex.

    I definitely don't want to date anyone with a cloaca. Although I can
    see some advantages to reproducing via spores.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)