• (ReacTor) Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 11 17:00:19 2026
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 11 18:03:07 2026
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    While it's not written Science Fiction, the Dr. Who episode
    _Gridlock_ came immediately to mind.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lee Gleason@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 11 14:52:10 2026
    On 6/11/2026 1:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    While it's not written Science Fiction, the Dr. Who episode
    _Gridlock_ came immediately to mind.

    When I think if driving SF, I alway sremcall "Code THree" by Rick
    Raphael. Swell little novel.





    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 11 18:22:45 2026
    On 6/11/2026 12:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    What about Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll

    Actual story at:

    https://ia903201.us.archive.org/19/items/calibre_library_178.219.147.208/Robert%20A.%20Heinlein%20-%20The%20Roads%20Must%20Roll_4359.pdf

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don_from_AZ@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 11 20:54:22 2026
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:

    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    Then there is the ultimate in driving safety, from Niven's story _Safe
    at any Speed_:

    "In the year 3100, thanks to fail-safe technology and the influence of
    the Teela Brown Luck gene, in Known Space you have nothing to fear
    except inconvenience?even when your car is swallowed by a giant Roc."

    http://www.larryniven.net/?q=bibliographic-reference/safe-at-any-speed

    --
    -Don_from_AZ-

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 12 17:03:00 2026
    On 12/06/2026 07:52, Lee Gleason wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    While it's not written Science Fiction, the Dr. Who episode
    _Gridlock_ came immediately to mind.

    ˙ When I think if driving SF, I alway sremcall "Code THree" by Rick
    Raphael. Swell little novel.

    This is available for free at Project Gutenberg though whether it is
    worth the trouble I am unsure as it was rather clunky and imaginative
    rather than predictive. The USA police cars were large enough to contain sleeping quarters, kitchen etc as well as a miniature hospital. They
    were staffed with a medical person as well as police officers and
    despite their size travelled at about a thousand kph. One patrol shift
    lasted about a year. I don't remember the story but suspect it was a
    series of incidents on patrol. Two stars.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 12 05:14:47 2026
    James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    Search engines are more useless than AI. In the end, this excerpt was
    willfully recalled from memory.

    A bottle of champagne was tallied and he signed
    the check despite her protests. It arrived in a
    colorful "Drink While You Drive" basket, and they
    stood then, and she was tall, but he was taller.
    Blindspin.
    A single name of a multitude of practices
    centered about the auto-driven auto. Flashing
    across the country in the sure hands of an invisible
    chauffeur, windows all opaque, night dark, sky high,
    tires assailing the road below like four phantom
    buzzsaws - and starting from scratch and ending in
    the same place, and never knowing where you are
    going or where you have been-it is possible, for a
    moment, to kindle some feeling of individuality in
    the coldest brainpan, to produce a momentary
    awareness of self by virtue of an apartness from all
    but a sense of motion. This is because movement
    through darkness is the ultimate abstraction of life
    itself - at least that's what one of the Vital
    Comedians said, and everybody in the place laughed.
    Actually now, the phenomenon known as blindspin
    first became prevalent (as might be suspected) among
    certain younger members of the community, when
    monitored highways deprived them of the means to
    exercise their automobiles in some of the more
    individualistic ways which had come to be
    frowned upon by the National Traffic Control
    Authority. Something had to be done.
    It was.
    The first, disastrous reaction involved the
    simple engineering feat of disconnecting the broadcast
    control unit after one had entered onto a monitored
    highway. This resulted in the car's vanishing from
    the ken of the monitor and passing back into the
    control of its occupants. Jealous as a deity, a
    monitor will not tolerate that which denies its
    programmed omniscience; it will thunder and
    lightning in the Highway Control Station nearest the
    point of last contact, sending winged seraphs in
    search of that which has slipped from sight.
    Often, however, this was too late in happening,
    for the roads are many and well-paved. Escape
    from detection was, at first, relatively easy to
    achieve.
    Other vehicles, though, necessarily behave as if a
    rebel has no actual existence. Its presence cannot be
    allowed for.
    Boxed-in, on a heavily-traveled section of roadway,
    the offender is subject to immediate annihilation in
    the event of any overall speedup or shift in traffic
    pattern which involves movement through his
    theoretically vacant position. This, in the early days
    of monitor-controls, caused a rapid series of
    collisions. Monitoring devices later became far more
    sophisticated, and mechanized cutoffs reduced the
    collision incidence subsequent to such an action. The
    quality of the pulpefactions and contusions which did
    occur, however remained unaltered.
    The next reaction was based on a thing which had
    been overlooked because it was obvious. The
    monitors took people where they wanted to go only
    because people told them they wanted ot go there.
    A person pressing a random series of coordinates,
    without reference to any map, would either be left
    with a stalled automobile and a "RECHECK YOUR
    COORDINATES" light, or would suddenly be whisked away
    in any direction. The latter possesses a certain
    romantic appeal in that it offers speed, unexpected
    sights, and free hands. Also, it is perfectly legal;
    and it is possible to navigate all over two
    continents in this manner, if one is possessed of
    sufficient wherewithal and gluteal stamina.
    As is the case in all such matters, the practice
    diffused upwards through the age brackets. School
    teachers who only drove on Sundays fell into
    disrepute as selling points for used autos. Such is
    the way a world ends, said the entertainer.
    End or no, the car designed to move on monitored
    highways is a mobile efficiency unit, complete with
    latrine, cupboard, refrigerator compartment and gaming
    table. It also sleeps two with ease and four with some
    crowding. On occasion, three can be a real crowd.

    (excerpt)

    DREAM MASTER by Zelazny

    --
    Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
    tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 12 13:53:23 2026
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla
    are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups,
    some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one-analyst-says-yes/

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 12 13:56:23 2026
    On 6/11/2026 4:51 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <KlEWR.57785$0o1c.20130@fx08.iad>,
    Lee Gleason <lee.gleason@comcast.net> wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    While it's not written Science Fiction, the Dr. Who episode
    _Gridlock_ came immediately to mind.

    When I think if driving SF, I alway sremcall "Code THree" by Rick
    Raphael. Swell little novel.



    Speaking of gridlock I recall an old Analog story, might have
    been a Chap Foey Rider, set on an island
    somewhere with more cars than street. They were having to
    dynamite cars out of traffic to make room for motion.

    Why don't they just have fewer cars?

    There's been a lot of dystopian car related shorts.

    Can't remember the title, there was one where a
    highway traffic jam was so intractable, that the
    authorities said 'screw it', and buried the jam,
    and the drivers, on concrete dumped from helicopters,
    rebuilding the road over the top.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 12 13:57:38 2026
    On 6/12/2026 1:03 AM, Titus G wrote:
    On 12/06/2026 07:52, Lee Gleason wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:03 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    While it's not written Science Fiction, the Dr. Who episode
    _Gridlock_ came immediately to mind.

    ˙ When I think if driving SF, I alway sremcall "Code THree" by Rick
    Raphael. Swell little novel.

    This is available for free at Project Gutenberg though whether it is
    worth the trouble I am unsure as it was rather clunky and imaginative
    rather than predictive. The USA police cars were large enough to contain sleeping quarters, kitchen etc as well as a miniature hospital. They
    were staffed with a medical person as well as police officers and
    despite their size travelled at about a thousand kph. One patrol shift
    lasted about a year. I don't remember the story but suspect it was a
    series of incidents on patrol. Two stars.

    This sounds like something that would have appeared in alt.pave-the-earth
    back in Usenet's glory days.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 12 12:52:07 2026
    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla
    are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups,
    some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one- analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not fared well.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jun 13 00:58:02 2026
    On 2026-06-12, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla
    are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups,
    some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one-
    analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires
    operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not
    fared well.

    I'd argue this technology doesn't even qualify as science fiction, and
    hasn't for decades. The technology for such safe driving has existed in
    train operation.

    I guess trains are the Common Lisp of transportation. Any sufficiently
    complex transportation system project will include an implementation of
    half of the rail engineering status quo.

    Or well, I guess I mean... any sufficiently complicated transportation
    system contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of railways technology!

    (cf. <https://enwp.org/Greenspun's_tenth_rule>)


    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven
    that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 12 20:03:57 2026
    On 6/12/2026 1:53 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla
    are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups,
    some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one- analyst-says-yes/

    pt


    I'll add to that that I take the safety claims with a grain of salt.
    Tesla drivers tend to be older, wealthier, and more experienced than
    the average driver, and comparison should be done only under similar conditions. People will use the self-driving tech more on highways
    than on city streets.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 12 20:06:20 2026
    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-12, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla
    are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups,
    some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one- >>> analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires
    operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not
    fared well.

    I'd argue this technology doesn't even qualify as science fiction, and
    hasn't for decades. The technology for such safe driving has existed in
    train operation.

    I guess trains are the Common Lisp of transportation. Any sufficiently complex transportation system project will include an implementation of
    half of the rail engineering status quo.

    Or well, I guess I mean... any sufficiently complicated transportation
    system contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of railways technology!

    (cf. <https://enwp.org/Greenspun's_tenth_rule>)


    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven
    that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that
    daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jun 13 02:32:57 2026
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-12, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla
    are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups,
    some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one- >>>> analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires
    operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not
    fared well.

    I'd argue this technology doesn't even qualify as science fiction, and
    hasn't for decades. The technology for such safe driving has existed in
    train operation.

    I guess trains are the Common Lisp of transportation. Any sufficiently
    complex transportation system project will include an implementation of
    half of the rail engineering status quo.

    Or well, I guess I mean... any sufficiently complicated transportation
    system contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow
    implementation of half of railways technology!

    (cf. <https://enwp.org/Greenspun's_tenth_rule>)


    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally
    specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven
    that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that
    daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.


    How does it handle a road with less visibility, does it always lower
    speed accordingly?

    How does it behave when there is a pedestrian crossing?

    Does it always pass a green light, or does it first assess whether there
    is room after the intersection?

    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jun 13 01:57:05 2026
    On 6/12/2026 9:32 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-12, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla
    are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups, >>>>> some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one- >>>>> analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires
    operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not
    fared well.

    I'd argue this technology doesn't even qualify as science fiction, and
    hasn't for decades. The technology for such safe driving has existed in
    train operation.

    I guess trains are the Common Lisp of transportation. Any sufficiently
    complex transportation system project will include an implementation of
    half of the rail engineering status quo.

    Or well, I guess I mean... any sufficiently complicated transportation
    system contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow
    implementation of half of railways technology!

    (cf. <https://enwp.org/Greenspun's_tenth_rule>)


    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally >>> specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven
    that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that
    daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.


    How does it handle a road with less visibility, does it always lower
    speed accordingly?

    It slows down in heavy rain or snow. My older system can have
    problems if I'm driving directly into the low sun. The newer ones
    have improved cameras and processing ability. I expect they do
    better.

    How does it behave when there is a pedestrian crossing?

    It sees crosswalks, and stops for people on the road, or
    standing on the curb beside a crosswalk.

    Does it always pass a green light, or does it first assess whether there
    is room after the intersection?

    I've not checked for that specifically, but in a year I've never been
    stranded in the middle of an intersection.

    pt


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jun 13 14:14:39 2026
    On 6/13/2026 11:42 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <110irfh$2nhqa$1@dont-email.me>,
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/12/2026 9:32 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-12, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be >>>>>>>> solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla >>>>>>> are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups, >>>>>>> some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one-
    analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires
    operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not >>>>>> fared well.

    I'd argue this technology doesn't even qualify as science fiction, and >>>>> hasn't for decades. The technology for such safe driving has existed in >>>>> train operation.

    I guess trains are the Common Lisp of transportation. Any sufficiently >>>>> complex transportation system project will include an implementation of >>>>> half of the rail engineering status quo.

    Or well, I guess I mean... any sufficiently complicated transportation >>>>> system contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow
    implementation of half of railways technology!

    (cf. <https://enwp.org/Greenspun's_tenth_rule>)


    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally >>>>> specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven >>>>> that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that
    daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.


    How does it handle a road with less visibility, does it always lower
    speed accordingly?

    It slows down in heavy rain or snow. My older system can have
    problems if I'm driving directly into the low sun. The newer ones
    have improved cameras and processing ability. I expect they do
    better.

    How does it behave when there is a pedestrian crossing?

    It sees crosswalks, and stops for people on the road, or
    standing on the curb beside a crosswalk.


    This could be a problem. If you are in a Reginald Denny situation,
    you may have to take drastic measures.

    How *should* an autonomous vehicle, or for that matter Mr. Denny
    have dealt with it? Run people down?

    Its asking an awful lot of an AI to recognize and deal with that
    Trolley Problem, which is way outside the driving realm.

    All I ask is that the AI be clearly much statistically safer than
    a human driver.

    pt



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Sn!pe@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jun 13 22:26:26 2026
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 9:32 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    [...]
    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally >>> specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven >>> that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that
    daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.


    How does it handle a road with less visibility, does it always lower
    speed accordingly?


    It slows down in heavy rain or snow. My older system can have
    problems if I'm driving directly into the low sun. The newer ones
    have improved cameras and processing ability. I expect they do
    better.


    How does it behave when there is a pedestrian crossing?


    It sees crosswalks, and stops for people on the road, or
    standing on the curb beside a crosswalk.


    Does it always pass a green light, or does it first assess whether there
    is room after the intersection?

    I've not checked for that specifically, but in a year I've never been stranded in the middle of an intersection.

    pt

    How does it perform on surfaces with changing grip, e.g. firm to loose;
    dry to wet, muddy, or icy? Can it detect skids? How about blowouts?

    --
    ^?^. Sn!pe, bird-brain. My pet rock Gordon just is.

    What you think you heard is not what I said
    and what I said is not what you think I meant.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Sun Jun 14 08:01:09 2026
    On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 20:03:57 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 1:53 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla are
    already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups, some
    humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my car is 7
    years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd say it
    drives as well as an average human, and supervising it is far less a
    drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-
    one-
    analyst-says-yes/

    pt


    I'll add to that that I take the safety claims with a grain of salt.
    Tesla drivers tend to be older, wealthier, and more experienced than the average driver, and comparison should be done only under similar
    conditions. People will use the self-driving tech more on highways than
    on city streets.

    pt


    All of your comments have been interesting.
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Sun Jun 14 09:40:44 2026
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 9:32 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-12, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be >>>>>>> solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla
    are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups, >>>>>> some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one- >>>>>> analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires
    operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not >>>>> fared well.

    I'd argue this technology doesn't even qualify as science fiction, and >>>> hasn't for decades. The technology for such safe driving has existed in >>>> train operation.

    I guess trains are the Common Lisp of transportation. Any sufficiently >>>> complex transportation system project will include an implementation of >>>> half of the rail engineering status quo.

    Or well, I guess I mean... any sufficiently complicated transportation >>>> system contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow
    implementation of half of railways technology!

    (cf. <https://enwp.org/Greenspun's_tenth_rule>)


    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally >>>> specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven >>>> that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that
    daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.


    How does it handle a road with less visibility, does it always lower
    speed accordingly?

    It slows down in heavy rain or snow. My older system can have
    problems if I'm driving directly into the low sun. The newer ones
    have improved cameras and processing ability. I expect they do
    better.

    How does it behave when there is a pedestrian crossing?

    It sees crosswalks, and stops for people on the road, or
    standing on the curb beside a crosswalk.

    Ok, these answers are all looking like it's sophisticated enough to be
    better than a lot of human drivers (those who should not be legally
    allowed to drive motor vehicles, but I digress) - as far as for this
    point specifically it stops for pedestrians crossing *anywhere*, not
    just crosswalks.


    Does it always pass a green light, or does it first assess whether there
    is room after the intersection?

    I've not checked for that specifically, but in a year I've never been stranded in the middle of an intersection.

    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on
    its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes
    or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?


    I'm also wondering about the accuracy of the systems, of course it has
    to be very good to allow for completely autonomous driving outside of motorways. Not that it cannot function well as an active driving aid,
    with the driver ready to take over in case the system fails.


    pt


    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Evelyn C. Leeper@3:633/10 to All on Sun Jun 14 07:20:20 2026
    On 6/14/26 04:01, Charles Packer wrote:
    All of your comments have been interesting.
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.


    Speaking just about cruise control, I find it has two advantages. It
    prevents leg pains caused by having to control the accelerator for long stretches when your speed doesn't need to change (e.g., driving on less-traveled interstates out west). And it helps keep your car under
    the speed limits set on some of the roads and streets, where your
    instinct would have you speed up.

    --
    Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
    Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
    86 47 II/4 25

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Sun Jun 14 08:43:46 2026
    Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.

    I enjoy driving and so I have a car that is fun to drive and requires
    a great deal of care and attention that might not be needed in a modern
    car. It is a much more mindful kind of driving.

    But... seeing that most people do not enjoy mindful driving (witness
    the number of automatic devices on cars today) I understand the argument
    for autonomous operation.

    I also would like an autonomous vehicle for occasional use, for when I
    need to just get somewhere without the experience of driving there.
    The idea that you could sleep while the car drives is a wonderful one,
    if in fact you could actually sleep.

    When autonomous vehicles become actually reliable and common, people will
    start drinking a lot more. Invest in liquor companies because they will
    be the first and most to profit on vehicle automation.

    My worry is that the move to autonomous operation and the move to electric power are happening at the same time and are getting coupled. What I would really like is an electric vehicle with unassisted steering, limited or
    no computer control of motors, and crank-up windows. I do not see that ever being sold in the US.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 16:29:15 2026
    On 14/06/2026 23:20, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
    On 6/14/26 04:01, Charles Packer wrote:
    All of your comments have been interesting.
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.


    Speaking just about cruise control, I find it has two advantages. It
    prevents leg pains caused by having to control the accelerator for long stretches when your speed doesn't need to change (e.g., driving on less- traveled interstates out west). And it helps keep your car under the
    speed limits set on some of the roads and streets, where your instinct
    would have you speed up.

    I found that the major advantage of using cruise control and other
    electronic enhancements makes distance driving less tiring though not so
    useful in town nor city. I have a complaint with the cruise control on
    my Honda which increases power going uphill but does not restrict speed
    going downhill so braking is required which switches off the cruise
    control. NZ is a hilly place.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John Savard@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 08:33:12 2026
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 17:00:19 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
    Nicoll) wrote:

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    I was surprised you didn't mention "The Jigsaw Man" by Larry Niven.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John Savard@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 08:39:42 2026
    On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 08:01:09 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer
    <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:

    I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.

    I don't see a contradiction between enjoying driving and owning a car
    with autonomous capability. As long as the capability doesn't have to
    always be turned on.
    Just because one, in general, enjoys a certain activity doesn't mean
    there won't be times when one is feeling too tired to engage in it...
    but one may still have to get somewhere despite that.

    John Savard

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Gary R. Schmidt@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 22:47:33 2026
    On 15/06/2026 14:29, Titus G wrote:
    On 14/06/2026 23:20, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
    On 6/14/26 04:01, Charles Packer wrote:
    All of your comments have been interesting.
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.


    Speaking just about cruise control, I find it has two advantages. It
    prevents leg pains caused by having to control the accelerator for long
    stretches when your speed doesn't need to change (e.g., driving on less-
    traveled interstates out west). And it helps keep your car under the
    speed limits set on some of the roads and streets, where your instinct
    would have you speed up.

    I found that the major advantage of using cruise control and other
    electronic enhancements makes distance driving less tiring though not so useful in town nor city. I have a complaint with the cruise control on
    my Honda which increases power going uphill but does not restrict speed
    going downhill so braking is required which switches off the cruise
    control. NZ is a hilly place.

    My just-over-a-month-old Skoda Octavia RS has cruise control that
    actively brakes on downhills.

    It also drops the gearbox (VAG DCG) into neutral (when in ECO mode) to
    coast when nothing is happening.

    Just how much this will compensate for my notoriously heavy right foot
    is something I am still learning. (In Sport mode, with the ESC switched
    to Sport as well, it's *so* much fun! :-> )

    But I use the cruise control all the time, in 40 km/h zones - school
    zones mainly, here in Oz - it keeps me below the limit without having
    to take my eyes from the road that those pesky children are likely to
    run out onto.

    And when I'm on the open road, setting it to 105 in a 100 zone is low
    enough that the radar doesn't trigger on me. :-)

    And anywhere in between using it leaves me with more attention for the
    road, even with the HUD.

    I haven't taken it anywhere yet to try out Launch Mode, or see what it's
    like when it gets up to it's maximum speed (250 km/h according to the
    manual) I think I need to join a car club!

    And I think I need to update my driving skills, it's the quickest FWD
    I've ever owned, and the last time I learnt to drive fast was in my
    Skyline Silhouette, which was RWD.

    Cheers,
    Gary B-)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 11:06:28 2026
    On 6/14/2026 1:11 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <110k6mf$33uh6$1@dont-email.me>,
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/13/2026 11:42 AM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <110irfh$2nhqa$1@dont-email.me>,
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 6/12/2026 9:32 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-12, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be >>>>>>>>>> solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/ >>>>>>>>>
    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla >>>>>>>>> are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups, >>>>>>>>> some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving >>>>>>>>> (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my >>>>>>>>> car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd >>>>>>>>> say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it >>>>>>>>> is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one-
    analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires
    operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not >>>>>>>> fared well.

    I'd argue this technology doesn't even qualify as science fiction, and >>>>>>> hasn't for decades. The technology for such safe driving has existed in >>>>>>> train operation.

    I guess trains are the Common Lisp of transportation. Any sufficiently >>>>>>> complex transportation system project will include an implementation of >>>>>>> half of the rail engineering status quo.

    Or well, I guess I mean... any sufficiently complicated transportation >>>>>>> system contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow >>>>>>> implementation of half of railways technology!

    (cf. <https://enwp.org/Greenspun's_tenth_rule>)


    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and >>>>>>> self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally
    specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven >>>>>>> that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that >>>>>> daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.


    How does it handle a road with less visibility, does it always lower >>>>> speed accordingly?

    It slows down in heavy rain or snow. My older system can have
    problems if I'm driving directly into the low sun. The newer ones
    have improved cameras and processing ability. I expect they do
    better.

    How does it behave when there is a pedestrian crossing?

    It sees crosswalks, and stops for people on the road, or
    standing on the curb beside a crosswalk.


    This could be a problem. If you are in a Reginald Denny situation,
    you may have to take drastic measures.

    How *should* an autonomous vehicle, or for that matter Mr. Denny
    have dealt with it? Run people down?


    It shouldn't deal with it, but neither should it stop the car owner
    from deaing with it.

    At the moment, if I tap the brake or gas, or turn the
    steering wheel, I'm 100% in control.

    However, Elon's 'cybercabs' don't have those controls.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Don_from_AZ@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 08:33:44 2026
    Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> writes:

    On 14/06/2026 23:20, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
    On 6/14/26 04:01, Charles Packer wrote:
    All of your comments have been interesting.
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.


    Speaking just about cruise control, I find it has two advantages. It
    prevents leg pains caused by having to control the accelerator for long
    stretches when your speed doesn't need to change (e.g., driving on less-
    traveled interstates out west). And it helps keep your car under the
    speed limits set on some of the roads and streets, where your instinct
    would have you speed up.

    I found that the major advantage of using cruise control and other
    electronic enhancements makes distance driving less tiring though not so useful in town nor city. I have a complaint with the cruise control on
    my Honda which increases power going uphill but does not restrict speed
    going downhill so braking is required which switches off the cruise
    control. NZ is a hilly place.
    I use cruise control all the time on the interstates to maintain a
    constant speed, as I tend to get going too fast if I am not paying close attention to the speedometer. The annoying thing is creeping up on
    slower moving vehicles, which then requires dis-engaging the cruise and re-engaging after changing lanes to get around the slowpoke. My latest
    vehicle has "active" cruise control which has a front sensor which will automatically slow down to maintain a safe distance from the vehicle
    ahead. Then I can pick a time to change lanes and it will automatically
    speed back up if the lane ahead is clear. I still have to steer, but
    it's almost like self-driving.
    --
    -Don_from_AZ-

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 11:45:12 2026
    On 6/13/2026 5:26 PM, Sn!pe wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 9:32 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    [...]
    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally >>>>> specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven >>>>> that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that
    daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.


    How does it handle a road with less visibility, does it always lower
    speed accordingly?


    It slows down in heavy rain or snow. My older system can have
    problems if I'm driving directly into the low sun. The newer ones
    have improved cameras and processing ability. I expect they do
    better.


    How does it behave when there is a pedestrian crossing?


    It sees crosswalks, and stops for people on the road, or
    standing on the curb beside a crosswalk.


    Does it always pass a green light, or does it first assess whether there >>> is room after the intersection?

    I've not checked for that specifically, but in a year I've never been
    stranded in the middle of an intersection.

    pt

    How does it perform on surfaces with changing grip, e.g. firm to loose;
    dry to wet, muddy, or icy? Can it detect skids? How about blowouts?

    I've used FSD in snow, but I haven't skidded.

    Here's someone trying it on icy roads:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fujcm1JwYFE

    It does pretty well.

    Here's some people trying to make it hit a dummy
    thrown in front of the car. They eventually
    succeed, but no human would have done better:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KRr9Of46MM

    They do capture a failure where, after successfully
    stopping, it proceeds after forgetting there's a
    problem. This is a scenario that's stopped at least
    one other autonomous vehicle program, and needs to
    be addressed. Newer cars have a front bumper camera
    which would have prevented this.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 11:51:19 2026
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 9:32 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-13, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 7:58 PM, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-06-12, BobbieSellers wrote:

    On 6/12/26 10:53, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be >>>>>>>> solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla >>>>>>> are already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups, >>>>>>> some humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my
    car is 7 years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd
    say it drives as well as an average human, and supervising it
    is far less a drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-one-
    analyst-says-yes/

    pt

    Don't relax your supervision. Aside from battery fires
    operators of Teslas who took the "self-driving" for granted have not >>>>>> fared well.

    I'd argue this technology doesn't even qualify as science fiction, and >>>>> hasn't for decades. The technology for such safe driving has existed in >>>>> train operation.

    I guess trains are the Common Lisp of transportation. Any sufficiently >>>>> complex transportation system project will include an implementation of >>>>> half of the rail engineering status quo.

    Or well, I guess I mean... any sufficiently complicated transportation >>>>> system contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow
    implementation of half of railways technology!

    (cf. <https://enwp.org/Greenspun's_tenth_rule>)


    "Self driving" is going to be a quite hard problem to solve, and
    self-driving systems shouldn't really be allowed unless they've formally >>>>> specified every detail that needs to be catered to, and they've proven >>>>> that the "self driving" system can operate safely outside of a
    motorway.

    Well it does operate safely outside of a motorway. I use it for that
    daily.

    My older system does miss on some things, such as responding to
    school busses and emergency vehicles. The newer cars don't have
    a problem.


    How does it handle a road with less visibility, does it always lower
    speed accordingly?

    It slows down in heavy rain or snow. My older system can have
    problems if I'm driving directly into the low sun. The newer ones
    have improved cameras and processing ability. I expect they do
    better.

    How does it behave when there is a pedestrian crossing?

    It sees crosswalks, and stops for people on the road, or
    standing on the curb beside a crosswalk.

    Ok, these answers are all looking like it's sophisticated enough to be
    better than a lot of human drivers (those who should not be legally
    allowed to drive motor vehicles, but I digress) - as far as for this
    point specifically it stops for pedestrians crossing *anywhere*, not
    just crosswalks.

    This video shows people trying to get it to hit a dummy thrown from
    the side of the road.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KRr9Of46MM

    It does highlight one problem: After a successful stop, it may 'forget'
    that there's an obstacle just in front of it. Newer cars also have a
    bumper camera that should mitigate that.

    Does it always pass a green light, or does it first assess whether there >>> is room after the intersection?

    I've not checked for that specifically, but in a year I've never been
    stranded in the middle of an intersection.

    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on
    its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes
    or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even
    waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane
    roads if needed.

    I'm also wondering about the accuracy of the systems, of course it has
    to be very good to allow for completely autonomous driving outside of motorways. Not that it cannot function well as an active driving aid,
    with the driver ready to take over in case the system fails.


    pt




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 11:53:53 2026
    On 6/14/2026 4:01 AM, Charles Packer wrote:
    On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 20:03:57 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/12/2026 1:53 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/11/2026 1:00 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
    ˙ Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    The autonomy solution is the closest to reality. Waymo and Tesla are
    already offering driverless taxi rides (with occasional screwups, some
    humorous, some not).

    The systems are only getting better. I have "Full self driving
    (supervised)" in my Tesla, though not the latest HW and SW (my car is 7
    years old, and upgrading is a major hassle).

    Its a joy to use, though I still have to keep an eye on it. I'd say it
    drives as well as an average human, and supervising it is far less a
    drain than driving myself.

    The latest versions are, by all reports, much better.

    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-full-self-driving-hits-level-4-
    one-
    analyst-says-yes/

    pt


    I'll add to that that I take the safety claims with a grain of salt.
    Tesla drivers tend to be older, wealthier, and more experienced than the
    average driver, and comparison should be done only under similar
    conditions. People will use the self-driving tech more on highways than
    on city streets.

    pt


    All of your comments have been interesting.
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.


    I can turn it off in a fraction of a second, and sometimes do.

    It drives more cautiously than I do, and in some situations,
    such as unprotected left turns, I take openings it won't.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 11:55:41 2026
    On 6/14/2026 7:20 AM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
    On 6/14/26 04:01, Charles Packer wrote:
    All of your comments have been interesting.
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.


    Speaking just about cruise control, I find it has two advantages. It prevents leg pains caused by having to control the accelerator for long stretches when your speed doesn't need to change (e.g., driving on less- traveled interstates out west). And it helps keep your car under the
    speed limits set on some of the roads and streets, where your instinct
    would have you speed up.


    I've been in situations where for a long trip, I've had choice of a
    stick with cruise control, or an automatic without. For that, I'll
    take the one with CC every time. It's reversed for city driving.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 12:04:15 2026
    On 6/14/2026 8:43 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
    I've never even used cruise control and it's been on cars since,
    gosh...the 1980s? I'd take an autonomous taxi in a minute but
    I can't imagine wanting to own a car with autonomous capability.
    There are some people who actually enjoy driving.

    I enjoy driving and so I have a car that is fun to drive and requires
    a great deal of care and attention that might not be needed in a modern
    car. It is a much more mindful kind of driving.

    On all the cars I've seen up to this point, all the driver assist
    capabilities can be turned off (maybe not ABS), and it becomes a
    manual car.

    EVs tend to be extremely quick, and provide a definite adrenaline
    rush when you put your foot down. I suspect most can't handle turns
    as well as a dedicated sports car, but they are still a lot of fun.
    The ability to accelarate like a bat out of hell is not only
    great for stoplights, but merging, and getting away from bad
    situations.

    But... seeing that most people do not enjoy mindful driving (witness
    the number of automatic devices on cars today) I understand the argument
    for autonomous operation.

    I also would like an autonomous vehicle for occasional use, for when I
    need to just get somewhere without the experience of driving there.
    The idea that you could sleep while the car drives is a wonderful one,
    if in fact you could actually sleep.

    When autonomous vehicles become actually reliable and common, people will start drinking a lot more. Invest in liquor companies because they will
    be the first and most to profit on vehicle automation.

    We're not there yet. Its within sight though. The questions of insurance
    legal liability, etc, need to be worked out.

    My worry is that the move to autonomous operation and the move to electric power are happening at the same time and are getting coupled. What I would really like is an electric vehicle with unassisted steering, limited or
    no computer control of motors, and crank-up windows. I do not see that ever being sold in the US.

    Crank up windows I think are dead. The rest you can still do.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 16:13:23 2026
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:


    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on
    its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes
    or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even >waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane
    roads if needed.


    How well does it handle a deer bolting in front of the vehicle from
    the side, without warning?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 15:47:37 2026
    James Nicoll wrote:
    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    https://reactormag.com/safer-driving-through-science-fiction/

    I've been too lazy to post a review of Per Wahloo's novel, "The Steel
    Spring", a 1970s dystopian novel set in an unnamed but probably
    Scandinavian country.

    The country has long been ruled by a left-right coalition, with each
    side getting to torment the people in their own way.

    The left gains a prohibition on alcohol, and our protagonist is a police inspector charged with enforcing this. He is also an alcoholic about to
    die of liver failure.

    The right gains a driver's paradise. Aside from building, every square
    foot of space in cities is dedicated to roads - pedestrians move through underground tunnels. Finally, enough space for cars! Except for those
    pesky buildings.

    Wahloo was best known a a mystery novel, winning an Edgar for a novel
    written with his frequent co-author, Maj Sjowall. It has been claimed
    that these two created "Scandinavian Noir".

    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 17:20:01 2026
    On 6/15/2026 12:13 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:


    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on
    its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes
    or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even
    waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane
    roads if needed.


    How well does it handle a deer bolting in front of the vehicle from
    the side, without warning?

    How well do YOU handle it?

    I did get hit by a deer once, but it was in a
    Suburban, not a Tesla. It slammed into the driver
    side door, and left an amazing amount of fur
    stuck to the car. I didn't see it until it was
    about 10 feet from me.

    Here's one video of a Tesla dodging around a deer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWAmZBEK2Wk

    Here's a Tesla slowing down before the deer even
    enters the road:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30BTkMsHC7w


    pt



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 22:33:23 2026
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/15/2026 12:13 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:


    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on
    its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes >>>> or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even
    waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane
    roads if needed.


    How well does it handle a deer bolting in front of the vehicle from
    the side, without warning?

    How well do YOU handle it?

    Better than many as I didn't
    overreact. But in reality, there's no time to react;
    maintaining control becomes the overriding concern.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jun 15 16:50:51 2026
    On 6/15/26 15:33, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/15/2026 12:13 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:


    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on >>>>> its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes >>>>> or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even >>>> waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane
    roads if needed.


    How well does it handle a deer bolting in front of the vehicle from
    the side, without warning?

    How well do YOU handle it?

    Better than many as I didn't
    overreact. But in reality, there's no time to react;
    maintaining control becomes the overriding concern.


    Indeed! Consider using a motorcycle on highway 1 north of the
    Golden Gate. Deer come out the woods close to towns and you have/had
    to practice braking. Never hit one though. That is like 50 years ago.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.16
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 14:58:53 2026
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextremeinvalid.com> writes:
    On 6/15/26 15:33, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/15/2026 12:13 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:


    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on >>>>>> its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes >>>>>> or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic >>>>>> effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even >>>>> waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane >>>>> roads if needed.


    How well does it handle a deer bolting in front of the vehicle from
    the side, without warning?

    How well do YOU handle it?

    Better than many as I didn't
    overreact. But in reality, there's no time to react;
    maintaining control becomes the overriding concern.


    Indeed! Consider using a motorcycle on highway 1 north of the
    Golden Gate. Deer come out the woods close to towns and you have/had
    to practice braking. Never hit one though. That is like 50 years ago.

    Not just Highway 1. Uvas Road in Santa Clara county is another
    deer hotspot. The most common areas for deer encounters are I280
    through the highlands and Highway 17 over to Santa Cruz.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jay Morris@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 20:12:44 2026
    On 6/15/2026 11:13 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:


    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on
    its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes
    or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even
    waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane
    roads if needed.


    How well does it handle a deer bolting in front of the vehicle from
    the side, without warning?

    Not a deer but testing was done, perhaps courtesy of ACME Industries, to compare Tesla's cameras verses others use of LIDAR to detect obstacles.
    If the tunnel looks real....

    https://insideevs.com/news/753642/tesla-autopilot-road-runner-test/

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jun 16 22:05:19 2026
    On 6/16/2026 9:12 PM, Jay Morris wrote:
    On 6/15/2026 11:13 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:


    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on
    its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes >>>> or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even
    waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane
    roads if needed.


    How well does it handle a deer bolting in front of the vehicle from
    the side, without warning?

    Not a deer but testing was done, perhaps courtesy of ACME Industries, to compare Tesla's cameras verses others use of LIDAR to detect obstacles.
    If the tunnel looks real....

    https://insideevs.com/news/753642/tesla-autopilot-road-runner-test/

    Yeah, this is pretty well known. H#3 with V12 (which is what I drive)
    can be fooled.

    HW4, with V14 FSD, is much better:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzZhIsGFL6g

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 04:22:15 2026
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 17:00:19 -0000 (UTC), James Nicoll wrote:

    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    I remember a short story about a future world where the flow of
    traffic became the absolute topmost priority. Everything else had to
    give way to that: there were highways in all directions, stacked level
    upon level, cutting through high-rise buildings where necessary. There
    were regulations on minimum speed and maximum following distance, to
    try to pack the traffic as efficiently as possible. Helicopters would
    drop paint-bombs to mark vehicles moving too slowly, for later
    enforcement action.

    Too bad if you lost control at speed and spun off the road ... just so
    long as you weren?t blocking other traffic ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 04:23:45 2026
    On Fri, 12 Jun 2026 05:14:47 -0000 (UTC), Don wrote:

    (excerpt)

    DREAM MASTER by Zelazny

    I didn?t remember the title, but I did remember the concept ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 04:24:33 2026
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 18:22:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    What about Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll

    But that?s getting rid of vehicles entirely, and making the roads
    themselves the transport mechanism.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 07:37:14 2026
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 20:54:22 -0700, Don_from_AZ wrote:

    "In the year 3100, thanks to fail-safe technology and the influence
    of the Teela Brown Luck gene, in Known Space you have nothing to
    fear except inconvenience?even when your car is swallowed by a giant
    Roc."

    Do we have a name for this idea? How about we call it the ?X-Men
    trope? -- the proposition that genetics can give people Miraculous
    Powers Beyond The Understanding Of Science ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 07:38:55 2026
    On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 08:43:46 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    But... seeing that most people do not enjoy mindful driving (witness
    the number of automatic devices on cars today) I understand the
    argument for autonomous operation.

    Horses were more automatic than that, weren?t they. They often had the
    smarts to figure out where you were going, and you could leave it to
    them to get there on their own.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Evelyn C. Leeper@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 07:34:41 2026
    On 6/18/26 00:22, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 17:00:19 -0000 (UTC), James Nicoll wrote:

    Safer Driving Through Science Fiction

    Surely, issues like traffic jams, speeding, and road rage can be
    solved through these creative strategies...

    I remember a short story about a future world where the flow of
    traffic became the absolute topmost priority. Everything else had to
    give way to that: there were highways in all directions, stacked level
    upon level, cutting through high-rise buildings where necessary. There
    were regulations on minimum speed and maximum following distance, to
    try to pack the traffic as efficiently as possible. Helicopters would
    drop paint-bombs to mark vehicles moving too slowly, for later
    enforcement action.

    Too bad if you lost control at speed and spun off the road ... just so
    long as you weren?t blocking other traffic ...

    All designed by Robert Moses, one suspects...

    --
    Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
    Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
    86 47 II/4 25

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 10:04:16 2026
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    I remember a short story about a future world where the flow of
    traffic became the absolute topmost priority. Everything else had to
    give way to that: there were highways in all directions, stacked level
    upon level, cutting through high-rise buildings where necessary. There
    were regulations on minimum speed and maximum following distance, to
    try to pack the traffic as efficiently as possible. Helicopters would
    drop paint-bombs to mark vehicles moving too slowly, for later
    enforcement action.

    This does not sound like a science fiction story. This sounds like
    Los Angeles today. Perhaps you were reading the "Guide to LA Freeways." --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 10:05:08 2026
    In article <110vru1$2bgdb$5@dont-email.me>,
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 18:22:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    What about Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll

    But that?s getting rid of vehicles entirely, and making the roads
    themselves the transport mechanism.

    WITH their own theme song! I support the creation of the BosWash Road City. --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 10:08:39 2026
    In article <11107ae$2e9gl$6@dont-email.me>,
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 08:43:46 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    But... seeing that most people do not enjoy mindful driving (witness
    the number of automatic devices on cars today) I understand the
    argument for autonomous operation.

    Horses were more automatic than that, weren't they. They often had the
    smarts to figure out where you were going, and you could leave it to
    them to get there on their own.

    Yes, and I think that a well-behaved horse (not one that will kick and bite you) is a good model for how an autonomous vehicle should function.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Evelyn C. Leeper@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 10:45:45 2026
    On 6/18/26 10:08, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    In article <11107ae$2e9gl$6@dont-email.me>,
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 08:43:46 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    But... seeing that most people do not enjoy mindful driving (witness
    the number of automatic devices on cars today) I understand the
    argument for autonomous operation.

    Horses were more automatic than that, weren't they. They often had the
    smarts to figure out where you were going, and you could leave it to
    them to get there on their own.

    Yes, and I think that a well-behaved horse (not one that will kick and bite you) is a good model for how an autonomous vehicle should function.
    --scott

    And as the latest news reports, horses also have their safety issues,
    which ironically seem to be the same as many "self-driving" accidents: inattentive drivers:

    18-Year-Old Dies in Fall From Horse Carriage in Central Park

    After the driver stepped out to take a photo of the passengers, the
    horse bolted, and a tourist from India fell from the driverless carriage.

    ...

    The union that represents carriage drivers said it never should have
    happened.

    ?It appears the driver was at least at arm?s length from his horse,?
    Alexander Kemp, a vice president of the union, Transport Workers Union
    Local 100, said in a statement. ?This is unacceptable. A driver is not supposed to leave the carriage to take photos ? ever. We support a full investigation.?

    --
    Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
    Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
    86 47 II/4 25

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul S Person@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 08:18:46 2026
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 07:38:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 08:43:46 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    But... seeing that most people do not enjoy mindful driving (witness
    the number of automatic devices on cars today) I understand the
    argument for autonomous operation.

    Horses were more automatic than that, weren?t they. They often had the
    smarts to figure out where you were going, and you could leave it to
    them to get there on their own.

    Particularly if it led to the barn and food.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BCFD 36@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 10:39:13 2026
    On 6/15/26 14:20, Cryptoengineer wrote:
    On 6/15/2026 12:13 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:


    I guess I left out what may have been another interesting question on
    its capability: does it promote proper distances when overtaking bikes >>>> or passing by pedestrians, especially factoring in the aerodynamic
    effects of the car's own speed?

    I've encountered this a number of times. It gives plenty of room, even
    waiting for a clear spot to swerve into the oncoming lane on two lane
    roads if needed.


    How well does it handle a deer bolting in front of the vehicle from
    the side, without warning?

    How well do YOU handle it?

    I did get hit by a deer once, but it was in a
    Suburban, not a Tesla. It slammed into the driver
    side door, and left an amazing amount of fur
    stuck to the car. I didn't see it until it was
    about 10 feet from me.

    Here's one video of a Tesla dodging around a deer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWAmZBEK2Wk

    Here's a Tesla slowing down before the deer even
    enters the road:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30BTkMsHC7w


    pt


    My wife has been hit by deer twice. No amount of AI sophistication is
    going to fix that problem. Both times the beasts came out from a blind
    area. Maybe if she was doing 10 mph she could have seen it before it
    jumped off the hillside or came out from behind a tree, but even that is questionable. And once it was dark at the time.

    I came around a corner doing about 50 mph and there were two deer
    standing on the double yellows in the middle of the road, and more
    standing on the edge. I managed to go between them, but there was fur on
    my fender. No dent though. I don't think AI could have done any better
    than I did. The physics of the situation said I was going to hit one of
    them.

    --
    ----------------

    Dave Scruggs
    Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
    Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 17:40:23 2026
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:
    In article <11107ae$2e9gl$6@dont-email.me>,
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 08:43:46 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    But... seeing that most people do not enjoy mindful driving (witness
    the number of automatic devices on cars today) I understand the
    argument for autonomous operation.

    Horses were more automatic than that, weren't they. They often had the >>smarts to figure out where you were going, and you could leave it to
    them to get there on their own.

    Yes, and I think that a well-behaved horse (not one that will kick and bite >you) is a good model for how an autonomous vehicle should function.

    Over the river and through the wood
    to grandfather's house we go
    The horse knows the way
    to carry the sleigh
    through the white and drifted snow"

    - Lydia Marie Child, 1844

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BCFD 36@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 10:42:52 2026
    On 6/15/26 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 6/15/26 15:33, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/15/2026 12:13 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:

    [some text deleted, as requested by Ms. Leeper]


    ˙˙˙˙Indeed! Consider using a motorcycle on highway 1 north of the
    Golden Gate.˙ Deer come out the woods close to towns and you have/had
    to practice braking. Never hit one though. That is like 50 years ago.

    ˙˙˙˙bliss
    At BCFD many, many years ago, we had a guy on a motorcycle try to become
    one with a deer. It didn't go well for either of them. The guy lived,
    the deer and the motorcycle didn't. One of the Captains took the deer
    home and butchered it. He said some of the meat was spoiled, but lots of
    it was still good.

    --
    ----------------

    Dave Scruggs
    Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
    Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BCFD 36@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 10:45:33 2026
    On 6/16/26 07:58, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    BobbieSellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextremeinvalid.com> writes:
    On 6/15/26 15:33, Scott Lurndal wrote:

    [shortened]

    Not just Highway 1. Uvas Road in Santa Clara county is another
    deer hotspot. The most common areas for deer encounters are I280
    through the highlands and Highway 17 over to Santa Cruz.
    Highway 9 from Saratoga to Santa Cruz, Bear Creek Road, Hwy 236 are all
    bad too. You know what a deer looks like when hit by a log truck or a
    gravel truck. I wish I didn't.

    --
    ----------------

    Dave Scruggs
    Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
    Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Evelyn C. Leeper@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 15:11:18 2026
    On 6/18/26 13:39, BCFD 36 wrote:

    My wife has been hit by deer twice. No amount of AI sophistication is
    going to fix that problem. Both times the beasts came out from a blind
    area. Maybe if she was doing 10 mph she could have seen it before it
    jumped off the hillside or came out from behind a tree, but even that is questionable. And once it was dark at the time.

    As someone who lives in an area (over-)populated with deer, let me tell
    you that that is when the deer come out. (Well, they are crepusular, so
    they start before it's totally dark. And one way to tell if someone
    lives in a deer area is whether they use the word "crepusular".)

    (And I just had to add that to Thunderbird's dictionary. Apparently
    Mountain View (CA) is not a deer area.)

    --
    Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
    Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
    86 47 II/4 25

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 13:49:38 2026
    On 6/18/26 10:42, BCFD 36 wrote:
    On 6/15/26 16:50, BobbieSellers wrote:
    On 6/15/26 15:33, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/15/2026 12:13 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/14/2026 4:40 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:

    [some text deleted, as requested by Ms. Leeper]


    ˙˙˙˙˙Indeed! Consider using a motorcycle on highway 1 north of the
    Golden Gate.˙ Deer come out the woods close to towns and you have/had
    to practice braking. Never hit one though. That is like 50 years ago.

    ˙˙˙˙˙bliss
    At BCFD many, many years ago, we had a guy on a motorcycle try to become
    one with a deer. It didn't go well for either of them. The guy lived,
    the deer and the motorcycle didn't. One of the Captains took the deer
    home and butchered it. He said some of the meat was spoiled, but lots of
    it was still good.

    Which is why if you ride on however many wheels braking practice is a necessity.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 21:10:26 2026
    "Evelyn C. Leeper" <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/18/26 13:39, BCFD 36 wrote:

    My wife has been hit by deer twice. No amount of AI sophistication is
    going to fix that problem. Both times the beasts came out from a blind
    area. Maybe if she was doing 10 mph she could have seen it before it
    jumped off the hillside or came out from behind a tree, but even that is
    questionable. And once it was dark at the time.

    As someone who lives in an area (over-)populated with deer, let me tell
    you that that is when the deer come out. (Well, they are crepusular, so
    they start before it's totally dark. And one way to tell if someone
    lives in a deer area is whether they use the word "crepusular".)

    (And I just had to add that to Thunderbird's dictionary. Apparently
    Mountain View (CA) is not a deer area.)

    Definitely not now. 75 years ago, when it was still all
    orchards, there were likely deer coming down from the
    neighboring Los Altos hills - which still have deer
    sightings occasionally.




    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 18:29:21 2026
    Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
    As someone who lives in an area (over-)populated with deer, let me tell
    you that that is when the deer come out. (Well, they are crepusular, so
    they start before it's totally dark. And one way to tell if someone
    lives in a deer area is whether they use the word "crepusular".)

    (And I just had to add that to Thunderbird's dictionary. Apparently
    Mountain View (CA) is not a deer area.)

    Take it back out! The word is "crepuscular" as in the famous piece
    "Crepuscule for Nellie."
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BobbieSellers@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 15:50:09 2026
    On 6/18/26 14:10, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    "Evelyn C. Leeper" <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/18/26 13:39, BCFD 36 wrote:

    My wife has been hit by deer twice. No amount of AI sophistication is
    going to fix that problem. Both times the beasts came out from a blind
    area. Maybe if she was doing 10 mph she could have seen it before it
    jumped off the hillside or came out from behind a tree, but even that is >>> questionable. And once it was dark at the time.

    As someone who lives in an area (over-)populated with deer, let me tell
    you that that is when the deer come out. (Well, they are crepusular, so
    they start before it's totally dark. And one way to tell if someone
    lives in a deer area is whether they use the word "crepusular".)

    (And I just had to add that to Thunderbird's dictionary. Apparently
    Mountain View (CA) is not a deer area.)

    Definitely not now. 75 years ago, when it was still all
    orchards, there were likely deer coming down from the
    neighboring Los Altos hills - which still have deer
    sightings occasionally.

    Maybe that is why the cougars are coming into the towns down
    the Peninsula, looking for the deer they should be eating.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 23:17:43 2026
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:05:08 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 04:24:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 18:22:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    What about Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll

    But that?s getting rid of vehicles entirely, and making the roads
    themselves the transport mechanism.

    WITH their own theme song! I support the creation of the BosWash
    Road City.

    Kind of neat to have the concept of caf‚s and shops etc in the middle
    express strip. Gives you something to do while waiting to get to your destination.

    I can?t recall -- did he have any kind of barriers between different
    regions of the road? I?m wondering how you keep it from getting too
    windy in the faster parts. The central sections might even need to be completely enclosed.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 23:22:12 2026
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:45:45 -0400, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

    And as the latest news reports, horses also have their safety issues
    ...

    Absolutely nothing new there. (See also: Christopher Reeve.) David
    Nutt (look him up) was once a UK Government advisor on drug policy. He
    got into conflict with the politicians because he refused to look at
    the issue as a political one, but purely as a scientific one, with
    decisions to be based on evidence.

    For example, he pointed out that taking Ecstasy/MDMA was about as
    dangerous (or as safe, if you prefer) as horse-riding. And then had to
    field an angry phone call from some minister or other who tried to
    counter by saying that one was illegal while the other was not.

    Which is the essence of circular argument, is it not?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 23:25:01 2026
    On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 12:04:15 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    EVs tend to be extremely quick, and provide a definite adrenaline
    rush when you put your foot down.

    Ah, the joys of electricity ... being able to apply maximum torque
    from 0 rpm.

    A similar thing can still work with an internal-combustion engine, if
    the power transmission to the wheels is mediated electrically, rather
    than mechanically.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 23:27:31 2026
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:04:16 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    This does not sound like a science fiction story. This sounds like
    Los Angeles today. Perhaps you were reading the "Guide to LA
    Freeways."

    The odd thing was, I remember the story being described in the
    editor?s intro as a ?black comedy?. That was the first time I had come
    across the term. Still not sure it fits.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Evelyn C. Leeper@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 19:27:33 2026
    On 6/18/26 18:29, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
    As someone who lives in an area (over-)populated with deer, let me tell
    you that that is when the deer come out. (Well, they are crepusular, so
    they start before it's totally dark. And one way to tell if someone
    lives in a deer area is whether they use the word "crepusular".)

    (And I just had to add that to Thunderbird's dictionary. Apparently
    Mountain View (CA) is not a deer area.)

    Take it back out! The word is "crepuscular" as in the famous piece "Crepuscule for Nellie."
    --scott

    You know, I triple-checked I was spelling it right, and *still* screwed
    it up.

    I have no idea how to remove a word from the dictionary. :-(

    --
    Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
    Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
    86 47 II/4 25

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 19:28:24 2026
    On 6/18/2026 7:17 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:05:08 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 04:24:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Thu, 11 Jun 2026 18:22:45 -0500, Lynn McGuire wrote:

    What about Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll"?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll

    But that?s getting rid of vehicles entirely, and making the roads
    themselves the transport mechanism.

    WITH their own theme song! I support the creation of the BosWash
    Road City.

    Kind of neat to have the concept of caf‚s and shops etc in the middle
    express strip. Gives you something to do while waiting to get to your destination.

    I can?t recall -- did he have any kind of barriers between different
    regions of the road? I?m wondering how you keep it from getting too
    windy in the faster parts. The central sections might even need to be completely enclosed.

    Here's some very early footage from the Paris Exposition in the 1900.
    They had a two-tier system running at the fair.

    This clip's been tarted up a bit with sound and colorization, but
    gives a flavor of such a system in use. The entire video is an
    interesting look at a bygone era.

    https://youtu.be/fo_eZuOTBNc?t=297

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 19:31:32 2026
    On 6/18/2026 5:10 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    "Evelyn C. Leeper" <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/18/26 13:39, BCFD 36 wrote:

    My wife has been hit by deer twice. No amount of AI sophistication is
    going to fix that problem. Both times the beasts came out from a blind
    area. Maybe if she was doing 10 mph she could have seen it before it
    jumped off the hillside or came out from behind a tree, but even that is >>> questionable. And once it was dark at the time.

    As someone who lives in an area (over-)populated with deer, let me tell
    you that that is when the deer come out. (Well, they are crepusular, so
    they start before it's totally dark. And one way to tell if someone
    lives in a deer area is whether they use the word "crepusular".)

    (And I just had to add that to Thunderbird's dictionary. Apparently
    Mountain View (CA) is not a deer area.)

    Definitely not now. 75 years ago, when it was still all
    orchards, there were likely deer coming down from the
    neighboring Los Altos hills - which still have deer
    sightings occasionally.

    I've encountered deer is residential areas of San Carlos
    in the past couple of years.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 00:11:47 2026
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 07:34:41 -0400, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

    On 6/18/26 00:22, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    I remember a short story about a future world where the flow of
    traffic became the absolute topmost priority. Everything else had
    to give way to that: there were highways in all directions, stacked
    level upon level, cutting through high-rise buildings where
    necessary.

    All designed by Robert Moses, one suspects...

    I had no idea who he was -- had to look him up.

    Seems he destroyed a predominantly black-populated suburb just to make
    way for Central Park ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 00:18:26 2026
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 19:28:24 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    On 6/18/2026 7:17 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Kind of neat to have the concept of caf‚s and shops etc in the
    middle express strip. Gives you something to do while waiting to
    get to your

    Here's some very early footage from the Paris Exposition in the
    1900. They had a two-tier system running at the fair.

    Found 36 seconds of something at 4:58, that was about it.

    Looks like the belt is made of segments that can rotate around a
    vertical axis. Did it go around in a loop?

    That?s how you?d want to construct a rolling roadway -- at least, the
    faster sections.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Evelyn C. Leeper@3:633/10 to All on Thu Jun 18 20:23:53 2026
    On 6/18/26 20:11, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 07:34:41 -0400, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

    On 6/18/26 00:22, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    I remember a short story about a future world where the flow of
    traffic became the absolute topmost priority. Everything else had
    to give way to that: there were highways in all directions, stacked
    level upon level, cutting through high-rise buildings where
    necessary.

    All designed by Robert Moses, one suspects...

    I had no idea who he was -- had to look him up.

    Seems he destroyed a predominantly black-populated suburb just to make
    way for Central Park ...

    No, Central Park predated him by quite a bit; Frederick Olmsted who
    destroyed Seneca Village in 1857. Moses was the Cross-Bronx Expressway.

    --
    Evelyn C. Leeper, http://leepers.us/evelyn
    Super Callous Fragile Racist Sexist Lying POTUS -anonymous sign
    86 47 II/4 25

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 00:50:26 2026
    Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/18/2026 5:10 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    "Evelyn C. Leeper" <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> writes:
    On 6/18/26 13:39, BCFD 36 wrote:

    My wife has been hit by deer twice. No amount of AI sophistication is
    going to fix that problem. Both times the beasts came out from a blind >>>> area. Maybe if she was doing 10 mph she could have seen it before it
    jumped off the hillside or came out from behind a tree, but even that is >>>> questionable. And once it was dark at the time.

    As someone who lives in an area (over-)populated with deer, let me tell
    you that that is when the deer come out. (Well, they are crepusular, so
    they start before it's totally dark. And one way to tell if someone
    lives in a deer area is whether they use the word "crepusular".)

    (And I just had to add that to Thunderbird's dictionary. Apparently
    Mountain View (CA) is not a deer area.)

    Definitely not now. 75 years ago, when it was still all
    orchards, there were likely deer coming down from the
    neighboring Los Altos hills - which still have deer
    sightings occasionally.

    I've encountered deer is residential areas of San Carlos
    in the past couple of years.

    West of the avenue of the fleas[*], I would guess, I280 is only
    a hop-skip-and jump away.


    [*] Paseo de las Pulgus.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 02:41:46 2026
    On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 16:29:15 +1200, Titus G wrote:

    I have a complaint with the cruise control on my Honda which
    increases power going uphill but does not restrict speed going
    downhill so braking is required which switches off the cruise
    control. NZ is a hilly place.

    Have you tried using a lower gear?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 03:24:42 2026
    On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 01:57:05 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    ... I've never been stranded in the middle of an intersection.

    Inconsiderate other drivers?

    Here in ??, the rule for a full-green signal (i.e. no arrows) is ?do
    not enter the intersection unless your way out is blocked by
    *stationary* traffic? (my emphasis).

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From oldernow@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 03:35:21 2026
    On 2026-06-18, Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 18 Jun 2026 10:45:45 -0400, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

    And as the latest news reports, horses also have their safety issues
    ...

    Absolutely nothing new there. (See also:
    Christopher Reeve.) David Nutt (look him up) was
    once a UK Government advisor on drug policy. He
    got into conflict with the politicians because
    he refused to look at the issue as a political
    one, but purely as a scientific one, with
    decisions to be based on evidence.

    For example, he pointed out that taking
    Ecstasy/MDMA was about as dangerous (or as safe,
    if you prefer) as horse-riding. And then had to
    field an angry phone call from some minister
    or other who tried to counter by saying that
    one was illegal while the other was not.

    Which is the essence of circular argument,
    is it not?

    As though rocket science could be worthy of
    surprise on planet "hell is other people"....

    --
    v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
    | alt.troll.adam-h-kerman: proof that the |
    | internet sometimes gets something right | ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 17:30:18 2026
    On 16/06/2026 00:47, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:

    But I use the cruise control all the time, in 40 km/h zones - school
    zones mainly, here in Oz -˙ it keeps me below the limit without having
    to take my eyes from the road that those pesky children are likely to
    run out onto.

    Unlike Don, I have a problem with the Honda in that if I use the cruise
    control in town traffic, it is too sensitive and will stop about two car lengths from the car stopped in front at the traffic lights. The
    distance adjustment works well on the open road when travelling at twice
    the speed.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 17:32:16 2026
    On 19/06/2026 14:41, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 16:29:15 +1200, Titus G wrote:

    I have a complaint with the cruise control on my Honda which
    increases power going uphill but does not restrict speed going
    downhill so braking is required which switches off the cruise
    control. NZ is a hilly place.

    Have you tried using a lower gear?

    Continuously Variable Transmission.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 17:33:29 2026
    On 19/06/2026 11:25, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 12:04:15 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    EVs tend to be extremely quick, and provide a definite adrenaline
    rush when you put your foot down.

    Ah, the joys of electricity ... being able to apply maximum torque
    from 0 rpm.

    A similar thing can still work with an internal-combustion engine, if
    the power transmission to the wheels is mediated electrically,

    electronically?

    rather
    than mechanically.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 05:51:24 2026
    On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 17:33:29 +1200, Titus G wrote:

    ... mediated electrically,

    electronically?

    ?Electrical? -- to do with power transmission
    ?Electronic? -- to do with signal processing and transmission

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 05:52:29 2026
    On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 17:32:16 +1200, Titus G wrote:

    On 19/06/2026 14:41, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 16:29:15 +1200, Titus G wrote:

    I have a complaint with the cruise control on my Honda which
    increases power going uphill but does not restrict speed going
    downhill so braking is required which switches off the cruise
    control. NZ is a hilly place.

    Have you tried using a lower gear?

    Continuously Variable Transmission.

    Is it Tiptronic -- i.e. has both automatic and manual modes?

    I don?t think I could ever be happy with a pure automatic
    transmission.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Gary R. Schmidt@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 17:32:02 2026
    On 19/06/2026 15:30, Titus G wrote:
    On 16/06/2026 00:47, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:

    But I use the cruise control all the time, in 40 km/h zones - school
    zones mainly, here in Oz -˙ it keeps me below the limit without having
    to take my eyes from the road that those pesky children are likely to
    run out onto.

    Unlike Don, I have a problem with the Honda in that if I use the cruise control in town traffic, it is too sensitive and will stop about two car lengths from the car stopped in front at the traffic lights. The
    distance adjustment works well on the open road when travelling at twice
    the speed.

    That sounds like Adaptive Cruise Control - as my Octavia has - but which
    I suspect to OP(CC) does not have, they just have the ordinary "maintain
    this speed" CC.

    And mine seems to get the distance right, but I do increase it when on
    the open road. :-)

    Cheers,
    Gary B-)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jun 19 08:50:51 2026
    In article <1112kcn$33p5r$4@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote: >On 19/06/2026 11:25, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 15 Jun 2026 12:04:15 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    EVs tend to be extremely quick, and provide a definite adrenaline
    rush when you put your foot down.

    Ah, the joys of electricity ... being able to apply maximum torque
    from 0 rpm.

    A similar thing can still work with an internal-combustion engine, if
    the power transmission to the wheels is mediated electrically,

    electronically?

    No, like a diesel-electric locomotive. Some hybrids do this, while others
    have direct mechanical coupling like a conventional vehicle with electric assist.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.17
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)