• R.I.P. Erich von D„niken, 90

    From Christian Weisgerber@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 12 14:02:51 2026
    RIP, Erich von D„niken (1935-2026), Swiss writer who became an
    international bestselling author by opportunistically writing about
    fringe and pseudoscience topics. He popularized the idea that early
    human cultures were visited by extraterrestrials who helped build
    monumental works and became revered as gods; a concept that was
    picked up numerous times by science fiction writers.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Steve Coltrin@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 12 08:43:48 2026
    "Every time he sees something he can?t understand, he attributes it to extraterrestrial intelligence, and since he understands almost nothing,
    he sees evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence all over the planet."

    - Carl Sagan

    --
    Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org
    "A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
    to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
    - Associated Press

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From BCFD 36@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 12 10:26:37 2026
    On 1/12/26 07:43, Steve Coltrin wrote:
    "Every time he sees something he can?t understand, he attributes it to extraterrestrial intelligence, and since he understands almost nothing,
    he sees evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence all over the planet."

    - Carl Sagan

    So Sagan was saying Von Danken was a Fundamentalist or Evangelical of
    xxxx religion?

    --
    ----------------

    Dave Scruggs
    Senior Software Engineer - Lockheed Martin, et. al (mostly Retired)
    Captain - Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Board of Directors - Boulder Creek Fire Protection District (What was I thinking?)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 12 19:19:42 2026
    On 2026-01-12, Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:

    "Every time he sees something he can?t understand, he attributes it to extraterrestrial intelligence, and since he understands almost nothing,
    he sees evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence all over the planet."
    - Carl Sagan

    Having actually read several of von D„niken's books, I think this characterization is spot-on.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 12 19:57:29 2026
    Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> writes:
    On 2026-01-12, Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:

    "Every time he sees something he can?t understand, he attributes it to
    extraterrestrial intelligence, and since he understands almost nothing,
    he sees evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence all over the planet."
    - Carl Sagan

    Having actually read several of von D„niken's books, I think this >characterization is spot-on.

    I suspect that EvD was more interested in the income from the
    books than the contents thereof.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 12 15:57:05 2026
    Christian Weisgerber wrote:
    RIP, Erich von D„niken (1935-2026), Swiss writer who became an
    international bestselling author by opportunistically writing about
    fringe and pseudoscience topics. He popularized the idea that early
    human cultures were visited by extraterrestrials who helped build
    monumental works and became revered as gods; a concept that was
    picked up numerous times by science fiction writers.

    I believe that SF writers got there first. But in those stories the
    aliens were more clever, passing on information rather than building
    useless objects.

    Still, given how stupid we are, perhaps aliens would also be dumb enough
    to think:

    "We need to help these poor people! Gimme three pyramids, stat!"

    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 12 22:03:09 2026
    On 2026-01-12, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:

    Haven't read him, but I had always assumed he was a guy who had found a
    grift and was milking it. So he actually believed this stuff?

    I seem to remember that interviewers put the question straight to
    him and he seemed evasive.

    In _Erscheinungen_ (1974, "Apparitions") he wrote with equal
    conviction about... ghosts. Surely those third-hand anecdotes about
    spectral figures haunting English castles must have some truth!

    Personally, I suspect that von D„niken neither believed nor disbelieved
    much of what he wrote. The books sold and he just didn't care. A
    bullshitter, in Harry Frankfurt's terms.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Scott Dorsey@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 12 19:28:50 2026
    Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
    Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
    On 2026-01-12, Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:

    "Every time he sees something he can?t understand, he attributes it to
    extraterrestrial intelligence, and since he understands almost nothing,
    he sees evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence all over the planet."
    - Carl Sagan

    Having actually read several of von D„niken's books, I think this >>characterization is spot-on.


    Haven't read him, but I had always assumed he was a guy who had found a
    grift and was milking it. So he actually believed this stuff?

    It's hard to tell. I suspect not, but stranger things have happened.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Mickmane@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jan 13 11:01:00 2026
    On 12.01.26, ted@loft.tnolan.com <Unknown@Sender> wrote:
    In article <slrn10maiae.24af.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de>,
    Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
    On 2026-01-12, Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:

    "Every time he sees something he can???t understand, he
    attributes it to extraterrestrial intelligence, and since he
    understands almost nothing, he sees evidence of extraterrestrial
    intelligence all over the planet." - Carl Sagan

    Having actually read several of von D??niken's books, I think
    this characterization is spot-on.

    Haven't read him, but I had always assumed he was a guy who had found
    a grift and was milking it. So he actually believed this stuff?

    Haven't read him either.

    Only came across all this stuff (besides flatmate in the 90s saying
    Daeniken spouted nonsense) after a Terraria update spoiler image with
    crazy hair guy, text saying "I'm not saying it's aliens, but... It's
    Aliens!" (The Terraria update featured marsian invasions.)

    When I then noticed crazy hair guy in some "documentary" I got
    interested and watched that. (It's fascinating how I like watching that stupid show, and keep telling the people in it that they need to buy a
    brain. Yet, I keep watching it. Guess it has nice pictures. :) )

    I am pretty certain that crazy hair dude at least doesn't really believe
    any of it.

    --

    Mickmane


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charles Packer@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jan 13 11:28:29 2026
    On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 15:57:05 -0500, William Hyde wrote:

    Christian Weisgerber wrote:
    RIP, Erich von D„niken (1935-2026), Swiss writer who became an
    international bestselling author by opportunistically writing about
    fringe and pseudoscience topics. He popularized the idea that early
    human cultures were visited by extraterrestrials who helped build
    monumental works and became revered as gods; a concept that was picked
    up numerous times by science fiction writers.

    I believe that SF writers got there first. But in those stories the
    aliens were more clever, passing on information rather than building
    useless objects.

    Still, given how stupid we are, perhaps aliens would also be dumb enough
    to think:

    "We need to help these poor people! Gimme three pyramids, stat!"

    William Hyde


    Raise your hand if you're old enough to remember an eerily
    similar controversy a generation earlier: "Worlds in Collision"
    by Immanuel Velikovsky. Compare and contrast.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Cryptoengineer@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jan 13 12:19:48 2026
    On 1/13/2026 4:15 AM, Jerry Brown wrote:
    On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 15:57:05 -0500, William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:

    Christian Weisgerber wrote:
    RIP, Erich von D„niken (1935-2026), Swiss writer who became an
    international bestselling author by opportunistically writing about
    fringe and pseudoscience topics. He popularized the idea that early
    human cultures were visited by extraterrestrials who helped build
    monumental works and became revered as gods; a concept that was
    picked up numerous times by science fiction writers.

    I believe that SF writers got there first. But in those stories the
    aliens were more clever, passing on information rather than building
    useless objects.

    Still, given how stupid we are, perhaps aliens would also be dumb enough
    to think:

    "We need to help these poor people! Gimme three pyramids, stat!"

    I recall Arthur C Clarke saying[*] that they came very close to going
    with a pyramid-shaped monolith before choosing the slab, and how it
    might have had a deleterious effect on 2001's performance, due to the association with von Daniken.

    *: probably "The Lost Worlds of 2001"

    2001 is based (loosely) on Clarkes short story 'The Sentinal',
    which does indeed have a pyramid-shaped monolith.

    pt

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jan 14 00:05:11 2026
    On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:43:48 -0700, Steve Coltrin wrote:

    "Every time he sees something he can?t understand, he attributes it
    to extraterrestrial intelligence, and since he understands almost
    nothing, he sees evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence all over
    the planet."

    - Carl Sagan

    Seems apt. Also it seems he was a bit of a scoundrel in his personal
    life.

    I read a lot of that kind of stuff (several of von D„niken, one or two
    on the Bermuda Triangle, possibly others I can?t remember now) back in
    my teens. Maybe even a bit of Bruce Cathie.

    Did it leave a lasting effect on me? Let?s just say, I no longer
    return the Lizard People?s calls ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jan 14 00:17:01 2026
    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 11:28:29 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer wrote:

    Raise your hand if you're old enough to remember an eerily similar controversy a generation earlier: "Worlds in Collision" by Immanuel Velikovsky. Compare and contrast.

    Scientists live in deathly fear of being taken for cranks, or being misinterpreted by cranks.

    E.g. Soddy and Rutherford arguing over whether to use the old
    alchemical term ?transmutation? when they succeeded in converting one
    chemical element into another.

    E.g. Bretz?s discovery of the glacial flooding episodes that created
    the Scablands of the US Pacific Northwest, at just about the time that
    geology thought it had got rid of the religious baggage of the
    Noachian Flood idea.

    E.g. Wegener being ridiculed over the idea that South America and
    Africa were once joined together, only to break up and drift apart
    over time. It took decades for him to be proven correct.

    Velikovsky was wrong, but Sagan argued that it wasn?t necessary to
    assassinate his character as well. And yes, it turns out worlds have
    collided, though perhaps not quite to the cosmic-billiards-type extent
    that he claimed -- one current theory is that our own Earth-Moon
    system was created by the collision of the precursor Earth with a (now-destroyed) body called ?Theia?.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jan 14 00:18:44 2026
    ; Scratch buffer -- list evaluation

    On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 10:26:37 -0800, BCFD 36 wrote:

    So Sagan was saying Von Danken was a Fundamentalist or Evangelical
    of xxxx religion?

    All kinds of religious/political ideologies have core characteristics
    in common. A key one is a masterful ability to argue in circles.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jan 14 01:14:39 2026
    On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 22:03:09 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:

    In _Erscheinungen_ (1974, "Apparitions") he wrote with equal
    conviction about... ghosts. Surely those third-hand anecdotes about
    spectral figures haunting English castles must have some truth!

    I?ve always wondered where ghosts got their clothes from. Is there an
    afterlife for clothes?

    And where did the Headless Horseman get his horse?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jan 14 01:17:17 2026
    On 12 Jan 2026 21:16:19 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    Belief in the paranormal and in extraterrestrials was indeed more
    widespread and publicly respectable in some expert and elite circles
    in the 1960s-1970s than it tends to be among comparable experts
    today.

    It was very much a common topic for SF in the 1950s and possibly 1960s
    as well. Dr Rhine was seen as a serious researcher producing real
    results, until questions were raised over his concept of scientific
    rigour ...

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jan 13 21:48:48 2026


    On 1/13/26 17:14, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 22:03:09 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:

    In _Erscheinungen_ (1974, "Apparitions") he wrote with equal
    conviction about... ghosts. Surely those third-hand anecdotes about
    spectral figures haunting English castles must have some truth!

    I?ve always wondered where ghosts got their clothes from. Is there an afterlife for clothes?

    And where did the Headless Horseman get his horse?

    Well the minds of the viewers of ghosts and expectations supply everything needed for a satisfactory experience of "seeing ghosts".

    Of course that is merely my uninformed opinions.
    Are ghosts haunted by the living?

    bliss



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Tue Jan 13 21:57:31 2026


    On 1/13/26 16:17, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 11:28:29 -0000 (UTC), Charles Packer wrote:

    Raise your hand if you're old enough to remember an eerily similar
    controversy a generation earlier: "Worlds in Collision" by Immanuel
    Velikovsky. Compare and contrast.

    Scientists live in deathly fear of being taken for cranks, or being misinterpreted by cranks.

    E.g. Soddy and Rutherford arguing over whether to use the old
    alchemical term ?transmutation? when they succeeded in converting one chemical element into another.

    E.g. Bretz?s discovery of the glacial flooding episodes that created
    the Scablands of the US Pacific Northwest, at just about the time that geology thought it had got rid of the religious baggage of the
    Noachian Flood idea.

    E.g. Wegener being ridiculed over the idea that South America and
    Africa were once joined together, only to break up and drift apart
    over time. It took decades for him to be proven correct.

    Velikovsky was wrong, but Sagan argued that it wasn?t necessary to assassinate his character as well. And yes, it turns out worlds have collided, though perhaps not quite to the cosmic-billiards-type extent
    that he claimed -- one current theory is that our own Earth-Moon
    system was created by the collision of the precursor Earth with a (now-destroyed) body called ?Theia?.

    Which adds one more element to finding exoplanets with Earth-like characteristics. Most of them have higher gravity and have not been hit
    by a "Theian" body and the Moon has a sixth the gravity of earth and
    lots of super Earth exoplanets have gravity that seems to be one sixth
    stronger than Earth's own gravity. Terra-forming may be harder and require
    the use of lots of energy to direct appropriate sized bodied to collide
    with Super Earths to cut them down to size.
    Some people believe that this collision was necessary to lift the
    the oxygen producing bacteria from the depths to the surface of the
    healing crust.

    bliss - reads too much maybe?


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ignatios Souvatzis@3:633/10 to All on Wed Jan 14 09:31:53 2026
    s|b wrote:
    On 12 Jan 2026 19:50:05 GMT, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

    Haven't read him, but I had always assumed he was a guy who had found a
    grift and was milking it. So he actually believed this stuff?

    You can't deny he saw things in a different perspective.

    Ahem. There's at least one case where he photographed, for one of his
    books, some graphics carved into stone in a cave in some South
    American mountain from a perspective that was impossible to view
    with your eyes if you stood there. Must have used some crane construction
    to hold the camera. Impossible to falsify if you didn't travel there yourself to view the original.

    Turned by 90 degrees(iirc), you might interpret it as an astronaut
    inside a flying machine. Viewed normally, it was some guy with
    decorative clothing crouching.

    Ask me 50 years ago if you want details.

    So you're very right, he viewed things, deliberately, from a different perspective.

    -is
    --
    A medium apple... weighs 182 grams, yields 95 kcal, and contains no
    caffeine, thus making it unsuitable for sysadmins. - Brian Kantor

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)