• (ReacTor) Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    From James Nicoll@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 3 17:54:35 2025
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sapiens/
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Garrett Wollman@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 3 18:36:49 2025
    In article <10eaq8r$dh7$1@reader2.panix.com>,
    James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sapiens/

    The newsgroup has been way too quiet lately! Let's have some
    discussion.

    1) In Julian May's "Saga of Pliocene Exile", a population of exiles
    from a far-away galaxy shows up on Pliocene earth in the proto-Rhone
    Valley. Having similar reproductive biology to the extant hominins,
    and not being as successful at carrying their own babies to term, they experiment with using the local Ramapithecus (a now-obsolete taxon) as surrogate mothers. Much to their surprise and joy, modern-human time
    travelers start passing through a one-way time-gate into their
    territory and they are somehow genetically compatible with the aliens
    and able to engender fertile hybrids. Since they lack metapsychic
    powers (which are screened out by the operators of the time-gate) they
    are easily enslaved; those with special skills are integrated into the political structure... and one of them manages to make himself High
    King in the aftermath of the Zanclean Flood. It is implied that this
    hybrid population survives until the arrival of modern humanity, and
    (a) is the source of the genes that will lead to set metapsychic
    powers arising among 20th-century humans, and (b) are the source of
    the legendary heroes of Irish mythology who IRL May based the
    characters on.

    2) In Graydon Saunders' (late of this newsgroup) Commonweal, one of
    the things dark-lord sorcerers seem to have loved doing over a hundred
    thousand years was invent people. Many are humanoid, indeed many are
    derived from human stock (pulled out of an alternate past after
    humanity exterminated itself in an enormous global war). Some others
    are unicorns (seven independently created species), kelpies, and other
    kinds of Dangerous Sapient Creatures we don't see in the five books
    published thus far. The humanoids generally have similar anatomy (and
    at least some of them are seen to have sex) but are reproductively
    isolated.

    3) In Elf Sternberg's (late of this newsgroup) extended porny
    interstellar soap opera, the Journal Entries, the journaller of the
    title is a very horny libertarian bisexual geneticist with a fur
    fetish, and likes creating new species that he will later figure out
    how to have sex with. In addition, there are also humanoid species
    elsewhere in the galaxy that he encounters and at times rescues from
    imminent social collapse. (Sometimes the rescue is done
    retroactively, reconstructing a species from the genetic and cultural
    material they have left behind.) Terran humans followed their own
    path to immortality which made them sterile, so any new humans are
    grown in vats, along with a couple of species they invent but don't
    really care much for. Away from Terra, interspecies relationships are
    common, as is xenoparenting (which has its own scientific journal);
    some species are biologically capable of being surrogates for other
    species, which is aided by 12 of the species having had the same
    designer and been scaffolded on the same Terran evolutionary history.

    -GAWollman

    --
    Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can, wollman@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
    my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 3 14:17:40 2025
    On 11/3/2025 11:54 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sapiens/

    Ah, in "Emergence" by David Palmer, all of the Homo Sapiens have died
    due to oddly effective designed flu, to be survived by some 2,000+ Homo
    Post Hominems.
    https://www.amazon.com/Emergence-David-R-Palmer/dp/0450411060

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 3 14:18:57 2025
    On 11/3/2025 12:57 PM, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <10easo1$ht2$1@usenet.csail.mit.edu>,
    Garrett Wollman <wollman@hergotha.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
    In article <10eaq8r$dh7$1@reader2.panix.com>,
    James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sapiens/

    The newsgroup has been way too quiet lately! Let's have some
    discussion.

    1) In Julian May's "Saga of Pliocene Exile", a population of exiles
    from a far-away galaxy shows up on Pliocene earth in the proto-Rhone
    Valley. Having similar reproductive biology to the extant hominins,
    and not being as successful at carrying their own babies to term, they
    experiment with using the local Ramapithecus (a now-obsolete taxon) as
    surrogate mothers. Much to their surprise and joy, modern-human time
    travelers start passing through a one-way time-gate into their
    territory and they are somehow genetically compatible with the aliens
    and able to engender fertile hybrids. Since they lack metapsychic
    powers (which are screened out by the operators of the time-gate) they
    are easily enslaved; those with special skills are integrated into the
    political structure... and one of them manages to make himself High
    King in the aftermath of the Zanclean Flood. It is implied that this
    hybrid population survives until the arrival of modern humanity, and
    (a) is the source of the genes that will lead to set metapsychic
    powers arising among 20th-century humans, and (b) are the source of
    the legendary heroes of Irish mythology who IRL May based the
    characters on.

    2) In Graydon Saunders' (late of this newsgroup) Commonweal, one of
    the things dark-lord sorcerers seem to have loved doing over a hundred
    thousand years was invent people. Many are humanoid, indeed many are
    derived from human stock (pulled out of an alternate past after
    humanity exterminated itself in an enormous global war). Some others
    are unicorns (seven independently created species), kelpies, and other
    kinds of Dangerous Sapient Creatures we don't see in the five books
    published thus far. The humanoids generally have similar anatomy (and
    at least some of them are seen to have sex) but are reproductively
    isolated.

    3) In Elf Sternberg's (late of this newsgroup) extended porny
    interstellar soap opera, the Journal Entries, the journaller of the
    title is a very horny libertarian bisexual geneticist with a fur
    fetish, and likes creating new species that he will later figure out
    how to have sex with. In addition, there are also humanoid species
    elsewhere in the galaxy that he encounters and at times rescues from
    imminent social collapse. (Sometimes the rescue is done
    retroactively, reconstructing a species from the genetic and cultural
    material they have left behind.) Terran humans followed their own
    path to immortality which made them sterile, so any new humans are
    grown in vats, along with a couple of species they invent but don't
    really care much for. Away from Terra, interspecies relationships are
    common, as is xenoparenting (which has its own scientific journal);
    some species are biologically capable of being surrogates for other
    species, which is aided by 12 of the species having had the same
    designer and been scaffolded on the same Terran evolutionary history.


    Off the top of my head we have a number of post or non human humanish species in fairly well known SF:

    Slans
    Baldies
    Iterloo
    Underpeople
    Draka
    Sime
    Children Of The Lens
    Eloi/Morlocks
    The Last Men

    I forgot about the the Draka. They were amazing and incredibly cold
    hearted.

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Titus G@3:633/10 to All on Tue Nov 4 17:55:07 2025
    On 4/11/25 06:54, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sapiens/

    Was Marc Miller?s Traveller mentioned?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lynn McGuire@3:633/10 to All on Tue Nov 4 01:21:40 2025
    On 11/3/2025 11:54 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sapiens/

    How about the Quaddies in "Falling Free" by Lois McMaster Bujold ? They
    had their legs replaced with a lower sets of arms for zero gravity
    conditions, before the invention of anti gravity plates, and it bred true.
    https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Free-Nebula-Award-Stories/dp/067157812X

    Lynn


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris Thompson@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 5 22:49:35 2025
    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:54 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sapiens/


    How about the Quaddies in "Falling Free" by Lois McMaster Bujold ?˙ They
    had their legs replaced with a lower sets of arms for zero gravity conditions, before the invention of anti gravity plates, and it bred true.
    ˙˙ https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Free-Nebula-Award-Stories/dp/067157812X

    Lynn


    I was thinking of the Quaddies myself. Eventually they would most likely become a separate species. But at the time of _Labyrinth_ Bel Thorne
    falls in love with the Quaddie dulcimer player Nicol, and in a later
    book (Diplomatic Immunity?) they're settled together and planning
    offspring. And...there was the Barrayaran who got deserted his ship to
    be with a Quaddie, and that relationship seemed it was going to be
    permanent or at least lengthy.

    So the Quaddies are not yet a different species (if the ability to
    interbreed is your benchmark- there are others), but interbreeding
    between them and legged humans is likely to become less and less common, leading to an eventual speciation event.

    Chris


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Robert Woodward@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 5 21:57:17 2025
    In article <10eh5si$sfgj$1@dont-email.me>,
    Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:54 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sap
    iens/


    How about the Quaddies in "Falling Free" by Lois McMaster Bujold ?˙ They had their legs replaced with a lower sets of arms for zero gravity conditions, before the invention of anti gravity plates, and it bred true.
    ˙˙ https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Free-Nebula-Award-Stories/dp/067157812X

    Lynn


    I was thinking of the Quaddies myself. Eventually they would most likely become a separate species. But at the time of _Labyrinth_ Bel Thorne
    falls in love with the Quaddie dulcimer player Nicol, and in a later
    book (Diplomatic Immunity?) they're settled together and planning
    offspring. And...there was the Barrayaran who got deserted his ship to
    be with a Quaddie, and that relationship seemed it was going to be
    permanent or at least lengthy.

    So the Quaddies are not yet a different species (if the ability to interbreed is your benchmark- there are others), but interbreeding
    between them and legged humans is likely to become less and less common, leading to an eventual speciation event.

    Since it appears that Bel's and Nicol's offspring have to be created in
    a biolab; they probably are separate species. Certainly the Betan Hermaphrodites have to be a separate species. For that matter, since the Cetagandan Haut have an extra pair of chromosones, they are a separate
    species by definition (the Haut-Ghem crosses are also created in a
    biolab).

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ?-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris Thompson@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 8 21:49:10 2025
    Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article <10eh5si$sfgj$1@dont-email.me>,
    Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:54 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sap
    iens/


    How about the Quaddies in "Falling Free" by Lois McMaster Bujold ??˙ They >>> had their legs replaced with a lower sets of arms for zero gravity
    conditions, before the invention of anti gravity plates, and it bred true. >>> ?˙?˙ https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Free-Nebula-Award-Stories/dp/067157812X

    Lynn


    I was thinking of the Quaddies myself. Eventually they would most likely
    become a separate species. But at the time of _Labyrinth_ Bel Thorne
    falls in love with the Quaddie dulcimer player Nicol, and in a later
    book (Diplomatic Immunity?) they're settled together and planning
    offspring. And...there was the Barrayaran who got deserted his ship to
    be with a Quaddie, and that relationship seemed it was going to be
    permanent or at least lengthy.

    So the Quaddies are not yet a different species (if the ability to
    interbreed is your benchmark- there are others), but interbreeding
    between them and legged humans is likely to become less and less common,
    leading to an eventual speciation event.

    Since it appears that Bel's and Nicol's offspring have to be created in
    a biolab; they probably are separate species. Certainly the Betan Hermaphrodites have to be a separate species. For that matter, since the Cetagandan Haut have an extra pair of chromosones, they are a separate species by definition (the Haut-Ghem crosses are also created in a
    biolab).


    Well, you've gone and opened 2 or 3 new cans of worms there. First, I
    don't see that Betan herms have to be a different species. Why would
    that be? They simply have 2 functional sets of reproductive organs. As
    for the haut...by your reasoning, people with Turner's syndrome or
    Trisomy 21 are members of different species and that just ain't so.

    Chris
    PS: Mind you, much of this would seem to depend on your philosophy.
    Biologists have long be split into the "lumper" and "splitter" factions:
    those who minimize certain differences such that species become more inclusive, and the opposite. Some of the debates are legendary.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Robert Woodward@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 8 22:13:41 2025
    In article <10eovf8$30kiq$1@dont-email.me>,
    Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

    Robert Woodward wrote:
    In article <10eh5si$sfgj$1@dont-email.me>,
    Chris Thompson <the_thompsons@earthlink.net> wrote:

    Lynn McGuire wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 11:54 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
    Five Ways Science Fiction Can Expand Beyond Homo sapiens

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories?

    https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-s
    ap
    iens/


    How about the Quaddies in "Falling Free" by Lois McMaster Bujold ??˙ They >>> had their legs replaced with a lower sets of arms for zero gravity
    conditions, before the invention of anti gravity plates, and it bred
    true.
    ?˙?˙
    https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Free-Nebula-Award-Stories/dp/067157812X >>>
    Lynn


    I was thinking of the Quaddies myself. Eventually they would most likely >> become a separate species. But at the time of _Labyrinth_ Bel Thorne
    falls in love with the Quaddie dulcimer player Nicol, and in a later
    book (Diplomatic Immunity?) they're settled together and planning
    offspring. And...there was the Barrayaran who got deserted his ship to
    be with a Quaddie, and that relationship seemed it was going to be
    permanent or at least lengthy.

    So the Quaddies are not yet a different species (if the ability to
    interbreed is your benchmark- there are others), but interbreeding
    between them and legged humans is likely to become less and less common, >> leading to an eventual speciation event.

    Since it appears that Bel's and Nicol's offspring have to be created in
    a biolab; they probably are separate species. Certainly the Betan Hermaphrodites have to be a separate species. For that matter, since the Cetagandan Haut have an extra pair of chromosones, they are a separate species by definition (the Haut-Ghem crosses are also created in a
    biolab).


    Well, you've gone and opened 2 or 3 new cans of worms there. First, I
    don't see that Betan herms have to be a different species. Why would
    that be? They simply have 2 functional sets of reproductive organs. As
    for the haut...by your reasoning, people with Turner's syndrome or
    Trisomy 21 are members of different species and that just ain't so.

    People with those chromosome abnormalities do have significant fertility problems.

    I must insist that the Betan Herms having 2 functional sets of
    reproductive organs is not simple. If you view the female body has the
    human baseline, then male testes are repurposed ovaries. For the Betan
    Herm to have both requires weird stuff going on early in fetal
    development (it also requires masculinization of one part of the body to create the penis, but not anywhere else).

    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. ?-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 21:09:09 2025
    On 2025-11-03, James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:

    Modern humans are fine, but what if we had a bit more variety in
    our stories? https://reactormag.com/five-ways-science-fiction-can-expand-beyond-homo-sapiens/

    Greg Egan's short story "The Moat" implies the existence of a cryptic population in the near future. Uninterpretable DNA evidence from
    a crime leads to the realization that somebody, presumably a wealthy
    ‚lite, has made themselves genetically incompatible, maybe by
    switching their DNA to other bases.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From William Hyde@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 18:01:30 2025
    Chris Thompson wrote:


    Well, you've gone and opened 2 or 3 new cans of worms there. First, I
    don't see that Betan herms have to be a different species. Why would
    that be? They simply have 2 functional sets of reproductive organs. As
    for the haut...by your reasoning, people with Turner's syndrome or
    Trisomy 21 are members of different species and that just ain't so.

    Tetrasomy two, on the other hand ...


    William Hyde

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 9 15:22:36 2025


    On 11/9/25 15:01, William Hyde wrote:
    Chris Thompson wrote:


    Well, you've gone and opened 2 or 3 new cans of worms there. First, I
    don't see that Betan herms have to be a different species. Why would
    that be? They simply have 2 functional sets of reproductive organs. As
    for the haut...by your reasoning, people with Turner's syndrome or
    Trisomy 21 are members of different species and that just ain't so.

    Tetrasomy two, on the other hand ...


    William Hyde

    For functional hermaphodites you run into conflicting problems
    with hormones which may be solvable but seem very difficult. Now if
    the Betan Herms were to exist they might very well be a different species
    from our long evolved humanity.

    Herm Sapiens Sapiens could be descendants of homo sapiens sapiens
    but i hope they would not interbreed with our species as it would offer
    no advantage to the offspring and might even be un-vialble.

    bliss

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Steve Coltrin@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 09:10:41 2025
    begin fnord
    Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> writes:

    Greg Egan's short story "The Moat" implies the existence of a cryptic population in the near future. Uninterpretable DNA evidence from
    a crime leads to the realization that somebody, presumably a wealthy
    ‚lite, has made themselves genetically incompatible, maybe by
    switching their DNA to other bases.

    Doesn't he use the same gag in one of his novels, _Distress_ if I recall

    --
    Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org
    "A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
    to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
    - Associated Press

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Christian Weisgerber@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 10 21:10:51 2025
    On 2025-11-10, Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> wrote:

    Greg Egan's short story "The Moat" implies the existence of a cryptic
    population in the near future. Uninterpretable DNA evidence from
    a crime leads to the realization that somebody, presumably a wealthy
    ‚lite, has made themselves genetically incompatible, maybe by
    switching their DNA to other bases.

    Doesn't he use the same gag in one of his novels, _Distress_ if I recall

    Not that I recall, but _Distress_ had a number of odd sideshows,
    like the voluntary autists.

    In the settings that are beyond the near future, his protagonists
    tend to be substantially removed from baseline Homo sapiens. In
    _Diaspora_, humanity has split into three groups: The fleshers, who
    retain a multitude of gene-engineered biological forms; the gleisners,
    who have transferred their consciousness into robot bodies; and the
    polis citizens who are disembodied uploaded minds that run on
    whatever computing substrate is convenient. His focus and interest
    are clearly the latter, but I think he was careful not to disparage
    the others. Well, the fleshers are barely mentioned, since they
    are Earth-bound and there is just nothing interesting there.

    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From The Horny Goat@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 23 15:31:31 2025
    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 01:21:40 -0600, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    How about the Quaddies in "Falling Free" by Lois McMaster Bujold ? They
    had their legs replaced with a lower sets of arms for zero gravity >conditions, before the invention of anti gravity plates, and it bred true.
    https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Free-Nebula-Award-Stories/dp/067157812X

    That was my first introduction to LMB and while your logic makes sense presumably if the quaddies were the result of genetic engineering,
    engineering arms and legs for their children would still be possible
    (and desireable once anti grav plates were a common technology)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bobbie Sellers@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 23 17:56:59 2025


    On 11/23/25 15:31, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 01:21:40 -0600, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

    How about the Quaddies in "Falling Free" by Lois McMaster Bujold ? They
    had their legs replaced with a lower sets of arms for zero gravity
    conditions, before the invention of anti gravity plates, and it bred true. >> https://www.amazon.com/Falling-Free-Nebula-Award-Stories/dp/067157812X >>
    That was my first introduction to LMB and while your logic makes sense presumably if the quaddies were the result of genetic engineering, engineering arms and legs for their children would still be possible
    (and desireable once anti grav plates were a common technology)

    Ok the quaddies though perfer Zero Gravity and their adapations go deeper for the sake of maintaining their bodies in Zero G. You have to
    engineer calcium retention to maintain the bones and the heart rate.
    Then assuming the Quaddies want fine control over both sets of hands
    the processing space for control of both must be increased.
    So the Quaddies may maintain orbital embassies with friendly
    planets or political entities. If they come to the surface they will
    use adaptive methods perhaps prosthetic, powered armor.
    Probably given Homo Sapiens Sapiens history they will find lots of animus directed at them. They may leave humanity behind because
    they operate in no gravity.

    But that is in another timeline where people are cooperative enough
    to build real space ships and not just mission directed vehicles.

    bliss - stuck on the only possible planet for her primitive life-form


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)