On 9/4/25 11:51, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/4/2025 9:48 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn makes his living from fossil fuels. It's not in his
best interest to care about the rest of the planet, so long
has his customers can extract more money from the
exploitation of a fundamentally limited resource.
He's about to reach 65, one might think he'd be concerned
about the world he is leaving to his child, but since
he owns his business, it's likely he'll continue to
ignore science and continue parroting nonsense from
right-wing garbage sites.
I've been 65 for quite a while now. And I have more than one child.
And you keep on listening to the crazies like Mann and the rest of them while me and mine are keeping the lights on.
Yes Lynn you are keeping the lights on but at what price?
Also when the internal heat of the Earth is not available for the thermal extraction of electricity from over-heated water.
All we have to do is build out the grid so that the sunny, windy places
are able to supply the power to keep your lights on.
Yes Lynn you are keeping the lights on but at what price?
Also when the internal heat of the Earth is not available for the >> thermal extraction of electricity from over-heated water.
All we have to do is build out the grid so that the sunny, windy >> places
are able to supply the power to keep your lights on.
Interestingly, possibly surprisingly, he lives in a state that has done
a major build-out, just as you described: <https://poweruptexas.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Transmission-and- CREZ-Fact-Sheet.pdf>
On 9/8/2025 4:01 PM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
...
Yes Lynn you are keeping the lights on but at what price?
Also when the internal heat of the Earth is not available for the >>> thermal extraction of electricity from over-heated water.
All we have to do is build out the grid so that the sunny, windy >>> places
are able to supply the power to keep your lights on.
Interestingly, possibly surprisingly, he lives in a state that has done
a major build-out, just as you described:
<https://poweruptexas.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Transmission-and-
CREZ-Fact-Sheet.pdf>
You can see the grid power generation at any given moment in Texas at:
https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/fuelmix
Right now at 5:03 pm on Monday Sep 8, 2025, it is: type actual power peak capacity Solar 26,352 MW(37.5%) 32,107 MW Wind 8,040 MW(11.4%) 40,183 MW Hydro 0 MW(0.0%) 573 MW Power Storage 131 MW(0.2%) 13,861 MW Other 50 MW(0.1%) 142 MW Natural Gas 24,457 MW(34.8%) 66,438 MW
Coal and Lignite 6,209 MW(8.8%) 12,812 MW Nuclear 4,997 MW(7.1%) 5,268 MW
This does not include private power plants for the 50+ refineries and chemical plants running in Texas from 10 MW to 400+ MW. Nor does it
include private wind power, private solar power, private generators and private battery power at people's homes and businesses. Several of the crypto plants and data centers have private power generation running on natural gas and coal.
Lynn
On 9/8/2025 4:01 PM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
...
Yes Lynn you are keeping the lights on but at what price?
Also when the internal heat of the Earth is not available for the >>> thermal extraction of electricity from over-heated water.
All we have to do is build out the grid so that the sunny, windy >>> places
are able to supply the power to keep your lights on.
Interestingly, possibly surprisingly, he lives in a state that has done
a major build-out, just as you described:
<https://poweruptexas.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Transmission-and-
CREZ-Fact-Sheet.pdf>
You can see the grid power generation at any given moment in Texas at:
https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/fuelmix
Right now at 5:03 pm on Monday Sep 8, 2025, it is: type actual power peak capacity Solar 26,352 MW(37.5%) 32,107 MW Wind 8,040 MW(11.4%) 40,183 MW Hydro 0 MW(0.0%) 573 MW Power Storage 131 MW(0.2%) 13,861 MW Other 50 MW(0.1%) 142 MW Natural Gas 24,457 MW(34.8%) 66,438 MW
Coal and Lignite 6,209 MW(8.8%) 12,812 MW Nuclear 4,997 MW(7.1%) 5,268 MW
This does not include private power plants for the 50+ refineries and chemical plants running in Texas from 10 MW to 400+ MW. Nor does it
include private wind power, private solar power, private generators and private battery power at people's homes and businesses. Several of the crypto plants and data centers have private power generation running on natural gas and coal.
On 9/8/25 15:12, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/8/2025 4:01 PM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
...
Yes Lynn you are keeping the lights on but at what price?
Also when the internal heat of the Earth is not available for the
thermal extraction of electricity from over-heated water.
All we have to do is build out the grid so that the sunny,
windy places
are able to supply the power to keep your lights on.
Interestingly, possibly surprisingly, he lives in a state that has done
a major build-out, just as you described:
<https://poweruptexas.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Transmission-
and- CREZ-Fact-Sheet.pdf>
You can see the grid power generation at any given moment in Texas at:
https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/fuelmix
Right now at 5:03 pm on Monday Sep 8, 2025, it is:
type actual power peak capacity
Solar 26,352 MW(37.5%) 32,107 MW
Wind 8,040 MW(11.4%) 40,183 MW
Hydro 0 MW(0.0%) 573 MW
Power Storage 131 MW(0.2%) 13,861 MW
Other 50 MW(0.1%) 142 MW
Natural Gas 24,457 MW(34.8%) 66,438 MW
Coal and Lignite 6,209 MW(8.8%) 12,812 MW
Nuclear 4,997 MW(7.1%) 5,268 MW
This does not include private power plants for the 50+ refineries and
chemical plants running in Texas from 10 MW to 400+ MW. Nor does it
include private wind power, private solar power, private generators
and private battery power at people's homes and businesses. Several
of the crypto plants and data centers have private power generation
running on natural gas and coal.
Lynn
Yes those data centers and AI servers are doing vast and dirty
power consumption
particularly bad is Elmo Musk's plant in Louisiana using very dirty
power produced by
obsolete devices. I am glad to see that even the Texans have begun to invest in lots
of renewable power.
bliss
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/8/2025 4:01 PM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
...
Yes Lynn you are keeping the lights on but at what price?
Also when the internal heat of the Earth is not available for the
thermal extraction of electricity from over-heated water.
All we have to do is build out the grid so that the sunny,
windy places
are able to supply the power to keep your lights on.
Interestingly, possibly surprisingly, he lives in a state that has done
a major build-out, just as you described:
<https://poweruptexas.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Transmission-
and- CREZ-Fact-Sheet.pdf>
You can see the grid power generation at any given moment in Texas at:
https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/fuelmix
Right now at 5:03 pm on Monday Sep 8, 2025, it is:
type actual power peak capacity
Solar 26,352 MW(37.5%) 32,107 MW
Wind 8,040 MW(11.4%) 40,183 MW
Hydro 0 MW(0.0%) 573 MW
Power Storage 131 MW(0.2%) 13,861 MW
Other 50 MW(0.1%) 142 MW
Natural Gas 24,457 MW(34.8%) 66,438 MW
Coal and Lignite 6,209 MW(8.8%) 12,812 MW
Nuclear 4,997 MW(7.1%) 5,268 MW
We're lucky in Ontario to have so much Hydro available. But then, our
Solar doesn't amount to much.
And we got rid of that coal crap, to the great benefit of my respiration
in summer.
This does not include private power plants for the 50+ refineries and
chemical plants running in Texas from 10 MW to 400+ MW. Nor does it
include private wind power, private solar power, private generators
and private battery power at people's homes and businesses. Several
of the crypto plants and data centers have private power generation
running on natural gas and coal.
Polluting the planet for a Ponzi scheme. Next up, coal powered prayer wheels.
Lynn McGuire wrote:
“Latest Arctic Ice Measurements Are In! — Someone Get Al Gore A Tissue”
https://clashdaily.com/2025/07/latest-arctic-ice-measurements-are-in-
someone-get-al-gore-a-tissue/
“Before that, Al Gore had confidently predicted that the sea ice would
be gone in just a few years, both in his ‘documentary’ (the one that
lost some court battles concerning its claims) and his ‘Day After
Tomorrow’ cataclysm movie where the polar ice slid into the ocean,
causing New York to freeze over.”
Ah, Lynn. You and reality are at best distant acquaintances.
Actually, as this is an SF group, and alternate realities are a common subject of SF, let us consider an alternate universe where Lynn and
Trump are right about everything.
Let's see. Could we write books based on the following?
(1) Donald Trump is a self-made man
(2) By selling the US oil at below world prices for fifty years, Canada
is ripping off the US.
(3) Biden appointed Jerome Powell
(3a) Biden was president in 2017
(4) The US will fall apart in five years.
(5) Fentanyl is flooding into the US from Canada (maybe we pack it in
the pipelines?).
(5) The world is not growing warmer
(5a) North America's fires are due to lazy people who don't rake
forests, unlike the industrious folk of the 1990s.
(6) USMCA is the greatest trade deal of all time. All credit to Pres
Trump.
(7) USMCA is the worst trade deal of all time. All blame to someone else.
We could go on. But what should be the pen name? I'd go with "Angery American", but that is taken.
William Hyde
On 9/8/2025 7:32 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 9/8/2025 4:01 PM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
...
Yes Lynn you are keeping the lights on but at what price?
Also when the internal heat of the Earth is not available for the
thermal extraction of electricity from over-heated water.
All we have to do is build out the grid so that the sunny, >>>>> windy places
are able to supply the power to keep your lights on.
Interestingly, possibly surprisingly, he lives in a state that has done >>>> a major build-out, just as you described:
<https://poweruptexas.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Transmission-
and- CREZ-Fact-Sheet.pdf>
You can see the grid power generation at any given moment in Texas at:
https://www.ercot.com/gridmktinfo/dashboards/fuelmix
Right now at 5:03 pm on Monday Sep 8, 2025, it is:
type actual power peak capacity
Solar 26,352 MW(37.5%) 32,107 MW
Wind 8,040 MW(11.4%) 40,183 MW
Hydro 0 MW(0.0%) 573 MW >>> Power Storage 131 MW(0.2%) 13,861 MW
Other 50 MW(0.1%) 142 MW >>> Natural Gas 24,457 MW(34.8%) 66,438 MW
Coal and Lignite 6,209 MW(8.8%) 12,812 MW
Nuclear 4,997 MW(7.1%) 5,268 MW
We're lucky in Ontario to have so much Hydro available. But then, our
Solar doesn't amount to much.
And we got rid of that coal crap, to the great benefit of my
respiration in summer.
This does not include private power plants for the 50+ refineries and
chemical plants running in Texas from 10 MW to 400+ MW. Nor does it
include private wind power, private solar power, private generators
and private battery power at people's homes and businesses. Several
of the crypto plants and data centers have private power generation
running on natural gas and coal.
Polluting the planet for a Ponzi scheme. Next up, coal powered prayer
wheels.
IIRC, in 'The Nine Billion Names of God', the engineer worries about the availability of power for the computer they're installing, but is
assured that there's plenty, since they have a generator to run the
prayer wheels. Energy source was unspecified.
Oddly, I once set up a project that iterated through 2^64 items. This is
so much larger than 9 billion that I expect a mapping could have been
created between every name and at least one of the items.
Luckily, the stars still shine...
On 7/22/2025 6:23 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
“Latest Arctic Ice Measurements Are In! — Someone Get Al Gore A Tissue”
https://clashdaily.com/2025/07/latest-arctic-ice-measurements-are-in-
someone-get-al-gore-a-tissue/
“Before that, Al Gore had confidently predicted that the sea ice
would be gone in just a few years, both in his ‘documentary’ (the one >>> that lost some court battles concerning its claims) and his ‘Day
After Tomorrow’ cataclysm movie where the polar ice slid into the
ocean, causing New York to freeze over.”
Ah, Lynn. You and reality are at best distant acquaintances.
Actually, as this is an SF group, and alternate realities are a common
subject of SF, let us consider an alternate universe where Lynn and
Trump are right about everything.
Let's see. Could we write books based on the following?
(1) Donald Trump is a self-made man
(2) By selling the US oil at below world prices for fifty years,
Canada is ripping off the US.
(3) Biden appointed Jerome Powell
(3a) Biden was president in 2017
(4) The US will fall apart in five years.
(5) Fentanyl is flooding into the US from Canada (maybe we pack it in
the pipelines?).
(5) The world is not growing warmer
(5a) North America's fires are due to lazy people who don't rake
forests, unlike the industrious folk of the 1990s.
(6) USMCA is the greatest trade deal of all time. All credit to Pres
Trump.
(7) USMCA is the worst trade deal of all time. All blame to someone else.
We could go on. But what should be the pen name? I'd go with "Angery
American", but that is taken.
William Hyde
Dude, you wound me unto the quick !
Lynn
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:
Scott Lurndal wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 9/4/2025 9:48 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@gmail.com> writes:
On 22/07/2025 17:07, Paul S Person wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2025 17:00:42 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
“Latest Arctic Ice Measurements Are In!  Someone Get Al Gore A Tissueâ€Â
https://clashdaily.com/2025/07/latest-arctic-ice-measurements-are-in-someone-get-al-gore-a-tissue/
“Before that, Al Gore had confidently predicted that the sea ice would
be gone in just a few years, both in his ‘documentary’ (the one that
lost some court battles concerning its claims) and his ‘Day After
Tomorrow’ cataclysm movie where the polar ice slid into the ocean,
causing New York to freeze over.â€Â
<snippo nonsense others have addressed>
/The Day After Tomorrow/ came out two years before /An Inconvient >>>>>>> Truth/. Gore appears to have had nothing to do with the former.
And /The Day After Tomorrow/ contains no "polar ice slid[ing] into the >>>>>>> ocean". New York -- indeed the Northern half of the USA -- does indeed >>>>>>> freeze over, however.
So here's the question: here we have a site that cannot even get its >>>>>>> movies right. Why should we trust them to get anything else right? >>>>>>> ("right" here meaning "correct", BTW)
North polar ice was, and, what remains, is in
the ocean already. If the ice on Greenland and
on Antarctica (and at the south pole) slips into
thevsea more than it already has, then New York City
may get quite wet. Which can happen already on a
windy day. Ice is less likely.
I don't see a reason to argue that the rest of what
Lynn quoted is anything other than nonsensical lies.
Lynn makes his living from fossil fuels. It's not in his
best interest to care about the rest of the planet, so long
has his customers can extract more money from the
exploitation of a fundamentally limited resource.
He's about to reach 65, one might think he'd be concerned
about the world he is leaving to his child, but since
he owns his business, it's likely he'll continue to
ignore science and continue parroting nonsense from
right-wing garbage sites.
I've been 65 for quite a while now. And I have more than one child.
And you keep on listening to the crazies like Mann
See, you can't refute the facts and resort to Ad Homenim. You
don't get to define "crazy".
and the rest of them
Like the IPCC? Like our own Dr. Hyde?
While I know who Mann is, he's one of thousands of
scientists who actually understand the atmospheric
behavior of carbon dioxide vis-a-vis emitted IR.
Spencer and Christy, however, are only two.
"Perhaps the darlings of the denialist community are
two researchers out of Alabama (John Christy and Roy
Spencer). They rose to public attention in the mid-1990s
when they reportedly showed that the atmosphere was not
warming and was actually cooling. It turns out they had
made some pretty significant errors and when other researchers
identified those errors, the new results showed a warming."
Even Christy could not deny the surface warning. His satellite
measurements, however, did show that the mid and upper troposphere were
not warming, or at least not warming as much as predicted. This caused
quite a stir, and a book was published on the topic which considered
every single possibility except that the measurements were incorrect.
A big deal was made of Christy's work here in this group. I pointed
out, among other things, that satellite "measurements" of tropospheric
temperature were actually models themselves, models of the modification
of long wave radiation as it passes through the atmosphere. So the issue
wasn't quite the "data vs model" argument it seemed to be. There were
error bars on the satellite results. Little did I know that the word
"bar" was superfluous.
The upper atmosphere was never expected to warm as much as the lower,
and the stratosphere, it has long, long, been known, was expected to
cool. I suspected that the relative upper atmosphere cooling had been
underestimated in climate models, not all that incredible a possibility,
though disturbing.
I never for a second imagined that Christy and his co-workers could be
so incompetent as to allow the stratospheric cooling signal to be mixed
in to a significant degree with their tropospheric measurements. Yet
that is what happened.
I was present when this was revealed. A seminar by one of Christy's
people at Texas A&M had me uneasy about their inversion algorithm, but a
mature grad student - far more knowledgeable than I in the area of
remote sensing - stood up and tore the work apart. The speaker had
nothing to say in rebuttal.
And this wasn't their first such error, it was their third. The first
two were small, but all contributed to give erroneously cool
measurements. I find it difficult to regard this a coincidence.
We can be somewhat molified that Christy and Spencer (and Koonin,
Curry and McKitrick (an economist) as well) have been fired! Talk about the five stooges, indeed.
The DoE won't withdraw their polemic (soi disant 'climate change report').
In an excess of irony, DoE wrote:
"We will continue to engage in the debate in favor of a
more science-based and less ideological conversation
around climate science."
You can't get more ideological than the five listed above, only one of
which was once considered a legitimate climate scientist (Curry).
Dude, you wound me unto the quick !
Lynn
But how Lynn? You are living already in an alternate reality.
So how can anything from this alien POV affect you?
Reality by the way is what sticks around when the observer is changed. Gravity is real to all concerned, so is the level of greenhouse gases in the Atmosphere. Volcanic events used to raise the level of greenhouse gases but humans spew greenhouse gas more than any
recent volcanic event.
Volcanic events in the past have triggered global warming but
these were really horrenous spewing of lava and gases covering lots
of territory. Look up "Siberian traps".
We do it without lava but with millions of machines dependent on fossil fuels which are made of iron and steel using fossil fuel to render
the metals from their ores and create alloys then more fossil fuel to
drive the hammers and presses that make it in those further milllins
of machines for the convenience of day life and travel.
bliss -
On 9/9/2025 5:05 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
Dude, you wound me unto the quick !
Lynn
But how Lynn? You are living already in an alternate reality.
So how can anything from this alien POV affect you?
Reality by the way is what sticks around when the observer is
changed. Gravity is real to all concerned, so is the level of greenhouse >> gases in the Atmosphere. Volcanic events used to raise the level of
greenhouse gases but humans spew greenhouse gas more than any
recent volcanic event.
Volcanic events in the past have triggered global warming but
these were really horrenous spewing of lava and gases covering lots
of territory. Look up "Siberian traps".
We do it without lava but with millions of machines dependent on >> fossil fuels which are made of iron and steel using fossil fuel to render
the metals from their ores and create alloys then more fossil fuel to
drive the hammers and presses that make it in those further milllions
of machines for the convenience of ever day life and travel.
bliss -
Sorry, I live in the real very much. Chemical Engineering Process Simulation Programmer by day (and sometimes night), SF reader by night.
My customers make gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, ethylene, various glycols, naphtha, asphalt, clean natural gas from dirty natural gas, LNG
(liquefied natural gas), propane, other NGLs (natural gas liquids), pipelines, compressors, expanders, distillation columns, etc, etc, etc,
etc, etc, etc, etc. My software allows them to simulate the chemical processes before they actually build or make it.
For instance, when XXXXXXXXXX buys a tanker of crude crude oil, they
simulate the crude oil using 600 chemicals and decide which of their refineries to ship the crude to for optimum performance. They do this
up to 600 times a month depending on how many of the crude oil tankers
cargos are alike (they usually are).
I have been working on this software on and off since 1975. 50 years
last June. I am getting old.
Lynn
Sorry, I live in the real very much. Chemical Engineering Process
Simulation Programmer by day (and sometimes night), SF reader by night.
Actually what you consider real I consider working with the abstraction of
the fossil fuels that are ruining the planet for multi-cellular life.
My customers make gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, ethylene, various
glycols, naphtha, asphalt, clean natural gas from dirty natural gas,
LNG (liquefied natural gas), propane, other NGLs (natural gas
liquids), pipelines, compressors, expanders, distillation columns,
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. My software allows them to
simulate the chemical processes before they actually build or make it.
We used to mine asphalt in California but I think all we have left are seeps.
We also mined mercury and some other things more or less noxious. Some
of the mines were on the rivers that feed Shasta Dam and while they were plugged
according to the understanding ot the day the souble chemicals may be
leaking out.
For instance, when XXXXXXXXXX buys a tanker of crude crude oil, they
simulate the crude oil using 600 chemicals and decide which of their
refineries to ship the crude to for optimum performance. They do this
up to 600 times a month depending on how many of the crude oil tankers
cargos are alike (they usually are).
I have been working on this software on and off since 1975. 50 years
last June. I am getting old.
Lynn
You are getting old because you are very lucky. No one recommends the alternative, at least no one has stopped in to tell me things are
great.
I used to know a lot of people who would talk about it if they could.
bliss
On 9/11/2025 12:35 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
...
Sorry, I live in the real very much. Chemical Engineering Process
Simulation Programmer by day (and sometimes night), SF reader by night.
Actually what you consider real I consider working with the
abstraction of
the fossil fuels that are ruining the planet for multi-cellular life.
My customers make gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, ethylene, various
glycols, naphtha, asphalt, clean natural gas from dirty natural gas,
LNG (liquefied natural gas), propane, other NGLs (natural gas
liquids), pipelines, compressors, expanders, distillation columns,
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. My software allows them to
simulate the chemical processes before they actually build or make it.
We used to mine asphalt in California but I think all we have
left are seeps.
We also mined mercury and some other things more or less noxious. >> Some
of the mines were on the rivers that feed Shasta Dam and while they
were plugged
according to the understanding ot the day the souble chemicals may be
leaking out.
For instance, when XXXXXXXXXX buys a tanker of crude crude oil, they
simulate the crude oil using 600 chemicals and decide which of their
refineries to ship the crude to for optimum performance. They do
this up to 600 times a month depending on how many of the crude oil
tankers cargos are alike (they usually are).
I have been working on this software on and off since 1975. 50 years
last June. I am getting old.
Lynn
You are getting old because you are very lucky. No one recommends
the alternative, at least no one has stopped in to tell me things are
great.
I used to know a lot of people who would talk about it if they could.
bliss
I consider myself blessed by God. My eyes are failing me so I will be having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. I feel that God has
blessed the USA so much that we have surgeons and hospitals that can
help us out.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
I consider myself blessed by God. My eyes are failing me so I will be
having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. I feel that God has
blessed the USA so much that we have surgeons and hospitals that can
help us out.
I can accept this, but it would make me wonder why God has blessed Japan
so much more than the USA in that regard.
--scott
On 9/11/25 15:14, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
I consider myself blessed by God. My eyes are failing me so I will be
having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. I feel that God has
blessed the USA so much that we have surgeons and hospitals that can
help us out.
I can accept this, but it would make me wonder why God has blessed Japan
so much more than the USA in that regard.
--scott
Really Japan is ahead on surgeons and hospitals?
If so the following may explain it.
The Nihonjin accept the multiplicity of the faces of God and try to honor
all that are revealed to them from ancient times before the origin of
the Japanese Empire around 400 CE.
Each clan had it own Gods as well in those times and into the medieval
era the worship continued of those. Then the Christians came in and
changed
the playing field. Before that in the early Empire the Buddhists came
and converted a lot of the Imperial family around 600 CE so that before the American intrusion in the middle of the 18th Century Buddhism and
Shintoism had fused into a religion that conflated Buddhas with ancient dieties.
After the so-called Meji restoration the plans of some theologians and
philosophers were implemented and the Shinto and Buddhist religion were separated and the Buddhist temples were no longer state supported because
the Buddhist faith was not thought Japanese enough.
From Meji in the 1860s course though the WW II so-called State Shinto
was in place which taught the divinity of the Imperial family. It was
used as
justification for all nations to be brought under the Fatherly rule of
the Emperor.
The Imperial family accepted this but it was promoted by the magnates of
the former domains like Satsuma and Choshu which were called Outside by
the old Shogunate who with some few others took over the rule of Japan. Outside was designated in the 1600s by Ieyasu Tokugawa who completed
the long unification of Japan and whose Family inherited his rule of the Shogunate. Those domains had not supported him in a final battle against the family of the former ruler Hideyoshi who had conquered most of Japan
but was not eligible for the title of Shogun due his low birth.
I am not well off so I have to wait until nearly the end of November for my cataract evaluation. I hope that it will be operable as
something is
obscuring my vision which leds to frequent un-noticed typos and I have
to look over each post carefully to make sure I have not inadvertantly
typed "fruit for "free". I use this example because in a SF book the error was made and went to final publication so that the free men became fruit
men.
I am not well off so I have to wait until nearly the end of NovemberFor what it is worth I had cataract surgery (lens replacement) on my
for my cataract evaluation. I hope that it will be operable as
something is
obscuring my vision which leds to frequent un-noticed typos and I have
to look over each post carefully to make sure I have not inadvertantly
typed "fruit for "free". I use this example because in a SF book the
error
was made and went to final publication so that the free men became fruit
men.
eyes last year. I had been forced to wait a LONG time before doing so because of lack of health insurance. By the time I was finally able to
get the surgeries I was basically blind in one eye and losing vision in
the other. The lens replacement surgery is pretty close to routine now
with the odds of a bad outcome being very low.
I was "lucky" in that I had finally gotten a job that paid enough that
with the discounts/subsidies available on the ACA Marketplace I could
scrape together enough to pay premiums and the "out of pocket" expenses.
But it was close to too late. If I had to do it with what the Big Ugly
Bill is doing to health insurance I wouldn't have been able to and would
be completely blind now.
Lynn may feel blessed but the politicians and policies he so strongly supports are deliberately taking healthcare away from as many as
possible. In large part because the MAGA movement is partly based on
the old Eugenics "let the weak die off!" with the wealthy and lucky
helping to kill them off.
On 9/12/2025 12:09 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
...
I am not well off so I have to wait until nearly the end of NovemberFor what it is worth I had cataract surgery (lens replacement) on my
for my cataract evaluation. I hope that it will be operable as
something is
obscuring my vision which leds to frequent un-noticed typos and I have
to look over each post carefully to make sure I have not inadvertantly
typed "fruit for "free". I use this example because in a SF book the
error
was made and went to final publication so that the free men became fruit >>> men.
eyes last year. I had been forced to wait a LONG time before doing so
because of lack of health insurance. By the time I was finally able
to get the surgeries I was basically blind in one eye and losing
vision in the other. The lens replacement surgery is pretty close to
routine now with the odds of a bad outcome being very low.
I was "lucky" in that I had finally gotten a job that paid enough that
with the discounts/subsidies available on the ACA Marketplace I could
scrape together enough to pay premiums and the "out of pocket" expenses.
But it was close to too late. If I had to do it with what the Big
Ugly Bill is doing to health insurance I wouldn't have been able to
and would be completely blind now.
Lynn may feel blessed but the politicians and policies he so strongly
supports are deliberately taking healthcare away from as many as
possible. In large part because the MAGA movement is partly based on
the old Eugenics "let the weak die off!" with the wealthy and lucky
helping to kill them off.
Bobbie, I hope that you get your cataract fixed. They are a total mess.
Paying for medical health is a total nightmare in the USA. I have no
idea how to fix this. Even Medicare For All will be a disaster in my opinion as that will be a Single Payer system. For me, I love being on Medicare but my Part B, part D, and Part G are costing me $350 per
month. My wife is the same. A bargain compared to my $1,200/month that
I was paying for Obamacare. I do pay $550 per month to Obamacare for
our disabled 37 year old daughter who lives with my wife and I.
I was on Obamacare for the last two years before I turned 65. It sucked
and it sucked bad. I lost all of my doctors except my eye doctor. I
lost my favorite hospital. I distinctly remember Obama stating that if
I wanted to keep my doctor, I could. He lied.
I will be evaluated for getting my first cataract fixed in a week and a half. My two heart attacks and two heart surgeries supposedly will not affect that evaluation. Neither will my missing right coronary artery,
a problem that I have had since birth. However, we are now watching a
1/8 inch growth in one of my lungs to see if that continues growing. I
do not know if that will excite the eye surgery center people, my eye
surgeon thinks not. I go back for more lung imaging in Feb so I do not
want to wait as my right eye has not focused for two years now due to
the cataract. But Obamacare said that the cataract was not bad enough
to fix so I had to wait for Medicare, even though I cannot read one inch
tall text just three feet away with my glasses.
I feel blessed because I survived two heart attacks with the aid of much medical intervention at ages 49 and 53. My great grandfather passed
away in 1937 at the age of 57 with his second heart attack, just a few
miles away from here. Maybe I will continue to survive my heart issues
and now my new lung issues for a while.
Lynn
On Thu, 11 Sep 2025 13:37:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippo>
I consider myself blessed by God. My eyes are failing me so I will be
having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. I feel that God has
blessed the USA so much that we have surgeons and hospitals that can
help us out.
I felt (still feel, but after 20+ years it is less intense) the same
way.
One of the commentaries on Revelation I read would have it that this
is the result of Satan -- or, rather (as Satan is currently residing
in the Pit) the Beast (basically, all science, all tech, all culture
other than simple Christianity). But he is in the minority.
I would not limit God's blessings to the USA, however. God is no
respecter of persons, after all.
On Thu, 11 Sep 2025 13:37:09 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippo>
I consider myself blessed by God. My eyes are failing me so I will be
having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. I feel that God has
blessed the USA so much that we have surgeons and hospitals that can
help us out.
I felt (still feel, but after 20+ years it is less intense) the same
way.
One of the commentaries on Revelation I read would have it that this
is the result of Satan -- or, rather (as Satan is currently residing
in the Pit) the Beast (basically, all science, all tech, all culture
other than simple Christianity). But he is in the minority.
I would not limit God's blessings to the USA, however. God is no
respecter of persons, after all.
I feel blessed because I survived two heart attacks with the aid of much medical intervention at ages 49 and 53. My great grandfather passed
away in 1937 at the age of 57 with his second heart attack, just a few
miles away from here. Maybe I will continue to survive my heart issues
and now my new lung issues for a while.
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
On 9/12/2025 12:09 AM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
...
November     I am not well off so I have to wait until nearly the end of
for my cataract evaluation. I hope that it will be operable asFor what it is worth I had cataract surgery (lens replacement) on my
something is
obscuring my vision which leds to frequent un-noticed typos and I have >>>> to look over each post carefully to make sure I have not inadvertantly >>>> typed "fruit for "free". I use this example because in a SF book the >>>> error
was made and went to final publication so that the free men became fruit >>>> men.
eyes last year. I had been forced to wait a LONG time before doing so >>> because of lack of health insurance. By the time I was finally able to >>> get the surgeries I was basically blind in one eye and losing vision in
the other. The lens replacement surgery is pretty close to routine now >>> with the odds of a bad outcome being very low.
I was "lucky" in that I had finally gotten a job that paid enough that
with the discounts/subsidies available on the ACA Marketplace I could
scrape together enough to pay premiums and the "out of pocket" expenses. >>>
But it was close to too late. If I had to do it with what the Big Ugly >>> Bill is doing to health insurance I wouldn't have been able to and would >>> be completely blind now.
Lynn may feel blessed but the politicians and policies he so strongly
supports are deliberately taking healthcare away from as many as
possible. In large part because the MAGA movement is partly based on >>> the old Eugenics "let the weak die off!" with the wealthy and lucky
helping to kill them off.
Bobbie, I hope that you get your cataract fixed. They are a total mess.
Paying for medical health is a total nightmare in the USA. I have no
idea how to fix this. Even Medicare For All will be a disaster in my
opinion as that will be a Single Payer system.
Why would you think a single payer system would be a disaster?
50% of your medical costs (or more) are simple overhead from each
of the dozen intermediaries that are involved in paying the providers.
The for-profit insurance company (e.g. united health) absorbs almost
30% of your premium, just so they can deny coverage to preserve their
profits and princely CEO compensation.
Medicare overhead is in the single digit percentage.
Then there is the overhead for the physicican billing
service, and all the arcane billing intermediaries, the
transportation (ambulance) providers.
If medical professionals were saleried generously, rather than compensated per procedure, costs would go down considerably.
If the government covered part or all of medical school, it would
open up opportunities for the non-wealthy to serve. Perhaps with
certain requirements on serving underserved areas for some period
of time (e.g. all the rural and suburban hospitals that will likely
close due to the Big Ugly Bill).
? For me, I love being on
Medicare but my Part B, part D, and Part G are costing me $350 per
Yes, the insurance companies lobbied congress to make sure they
could suck more dollars out of the system, rather than medicare
just handling it all themselves, like they used to before the
GOP dismantled that and replaced it with private for-profit
companies, inevitably leading to higher costs and lesser benefit
to the retired.
month. My wife is the same. A bargain compared to my $1,200/month that
I was paying for Obamacare. I do pay $550 per month to Obamacare for
our disabled 37 year old daughter who lives with my wife and I.
I was on Obamacare for the last two years before I turned 65.
It is called the Affordable Care Act, and originate in
congress.
It sucked
and it sucked bad. I lost all of my doctors except my eye doctor. I
lost my favorite hospital.
A common complaint from conservatives. Not backed up by much
non-anecdotal evidence, however.
I distinctly remember Obama stating that if
I wanted to keep my doctor, I could.
Another misattribution by conservative commentators, not backed
by actual fact.
He lied.
Congress didn't craft the ACA to allowed you to keep your
doctor, if that indeed was the case. For which the blame
should be assigned to congress. Yes, the President was
incorrect in his statements (many of which preceeded the
passage of the ACA). But ultimately, law is created by
congress (although the orange clown is testing that part of
the constitution, to our collective detriment).
"The Affordable Care Act tried to allow existing health plans
to continue under a complicated process called "grandfathering,"
which basically said insurance companies could keep selling plans
if they followed certain rules."
"The problem for insurers was that the ACA rules were strict.
If the plans deviated even a little, they would lose their
grandfathered status. In practice, that meant insurers canceled
plans that didn't meet new standards."
Again, blame the congress who wrote and passed the affordable
care act.
I feel blessed because I survived two heart attacks with the aid of much
medical intervention at ages 49 and 53. My great grandfather passed
away in 1937 at the age of 57 with his second heart attack, just a few
miles away from here. Maybe I will continue to survive my heart issues
and now my new lung issues for a while.
We've all benefited from the advances in medical care during our
lifetime. Much of which is threatened by the current congress
and administration.
for heart patients significantly since they were approved by the
FDA in 1994.
But so long as the system is profit driven, outcomes will favor profitibility, rather than the health of the patient, sadly.
Lynn McGuire wrote:
I feel blessed because I survived two heart attacks with the aid of
much medical intervention at ages 49 and 53. My great grandfather
passed away in 1937 at the age of 57 with his second heart attack,
just a few miles away from here. Maybe I will continue to survive my
heart issues and now my new lung issues for a while.
I begin to think we are related.
But then, our family's heart problems come from the English side. My
great great grandfather died in 1888 at at age 44 from what seems to
have been cardiac arrest.
"Are you *sure* you've never smoked?" asked my doctor on seeing my lung x-rays. "Not at all but I did drink" (until recently bars and chess
clubs were notoriously smoky and I don't think working at GE helped
either).
I have just learned that cataracts are a long way off. Thankfully.
William Hyde
On 9/12/2025 6:26 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Lynn McGuire wrote:
I feel blessed because I survived two heart attacks with the aid of
much medical intervention at ages 49 and 53. My great grandfather
passed away in 1937 at the age of 57 with his second heart attack,
just a few miles away from here. Maybe I will continue to survive my
heart issues and now my new lung issues for a while.
I begin to think we are related.
But then, our family's heart problems come from the English side. My
great great grandfather died in 1888 at at age 44 from what seems to
have been cardiac arrest.
"Are you *sure* you've never smoked?" asked my doctor on seeing my
lung x-rays. "Not at all but I did drink" (until recently bars and
chess clubs were notoriously smoky and I don't think working at GE
helped either).
I have just learned that cataracts are a long way off. Thankfully.
William Hyde
My family's heart problems come from the German side. Several of my
older cousins have had bypass surgeries in their 70s and 80s. The
oldest just passed away at age 94. He was 6'5" and 250 lbs.
I worked with asbestos insulation in power plants as a junior engineer.
I hope that is not coming back to bite me. One of my friends died of mesothelioma about six years ago, he was a ensign in the US Navy while
they were building six nuclear submarines in the 1960s. It was his job
to do a construction status verification every week. He said that so
much asbestos was flying in the air that it looked like it was snowing
inside the subs.
On Sat, 13 Sep 2025 21:12:29 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Sep 2025 18:14:05 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
I consider myself blessed by God. My eyes are failing me so I will be >>>> having cataract surgery in a couple of weeks. I feel that God has
blessed the USA so much that we have surgeons and hospitals that can
help us out.
I can accept this, but it would make me wonder why God has blessed Japan >>> so much more than the USA in that regard.
--scott
Hmmm. I had cataract surgery 3 weeks ago. Does that "prove" Canada is
equally blessed by God? Uh...
At the moment, perhaps, even more so, if that were possible.
We, after all, have Trump; Canada does not.
On Sun, 14 Sep 2025 09:05:04 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:snip
snipdeprived Americans with black skin from owning property. It happened in
New York State and in California that black-owned property was
alienated by state and local action. In California some of that property
was returned recently but it was to have been the core of a families
wealth while on return it became a Public Park.
A fair number of communities in the area still feature property deeds
with restrictive covenants on them. For all I know, mine is one of
them (I don't have a copy of the actual deed). These are now
unenforceable, but efforts to remove them are (or were at last report)
having a hard time because the tradition for property titles is that /everything/ stays in forever, to ensure that there is only /one/
version of each deed.
On Sat, 13 Sep 2025 21:12:29 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:
On Thu, 11 Sep 2025 18:14:05 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
I can accept this, but it would make me wonder why God has blessed Japan >>> so much more than the USA in that regard.
--scott
Hmmm. I had cataract surgery 3 weeks ago. Does that "prove" Canada is
equally blessed by God? Uh...
At the moment, perhaps, even more so, if that were possible.
We, after all, have Trump; Canada does not.
This is why we need two new /centrist/ parties: the current ones, both
of them, are too extreme and too self-interested.
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 17:12:36 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 16/09/25 03:36, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2025 09:05:04 -0700, Bobbie Sellerssnip
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
snipdeprived Americans with black skin from owning property. It happened in >>>> New York State and in California that black-owned property was
alienated by state and local action. In California some of that property >>>> was returned recently but it was to have been the core of a families
wealth while on return it became a Public Park.
A fair number of communities in the area still feature property deeds
with restrictive covenants on them. For all I know, mine is one of
them (I don't have a copy of the actual deed). These are now
unenforceable, but efforts to remove them are (or were at last report)
having a hard time because the tradition for property titles is that
/everything/ stays in forever, to ensure that there is only /one/
version of each deed.
I am not from America and even though I am aware of much of the history
of racism in the USA, I had never heard of property ownership being
dependent on skin colour and amazed at the possibility it can still
exist as your comment regarding covenants implies. Fascinating. I will
do a web search for more general (rather than legal) details.
There are also communities (and, IIRC, at least one State)
/explicitly/ founded as for White people only. This nonsense is, of
course, now illegal as well.
Some of these things can be changed. The county I live in (King County
in Washington State) was original named for Rufus B King, slaveowner;
it has for quite some years now been officially named for Dr. Martin
Luther King, Jr. IIRC, we voted on it. If so, I voted for it.
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 11:47:04 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 9/16/25 11:02, Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 17:12:36 +1200, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 16/09/25 03:36, Paul S Person wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2025 09:05:04 -0700, Bobbie Sellerssnip
<bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
snipdeprived Americans with black skin from owning property. It happened in >>>>>> New York State and in California that black-owned property was
alienated by state and local action. In California some of that property >>>>>> was returned recently but it was to have been the core of a families >>>>>> wealth while on return it became a Public Park.
A fair number of communities in the area still feature property deeds >>>>> with restrictive covenants on them. For all I know, mine is one of
them (I don't have a copy of the actual deed). These are now
unenforceable, but efforts to remove them are (or were at last report) >>>>> having a hard time because the tradition for property titles is that >>>>> /everything/ stays in forever, to ensure that there is only /one/
version of each deed.
I am not from America and even though I am aware of much of the history >>>> of racism in the USA, I had never heard of property ownership being
dependent on skin colour and amazed at the possibility it can still
exist as your comment regarding covenants implies. Fascinating. I will >>>> do a web search for more general (rather than legal) details.
There are also communities (and, IIRC, at least one State)
/explicitly/ founded as for White people only. This nonsense is, of
course, now illegal as well.
That was because they did not want slaves brought in to that state.
The ones I am referring to didn't want /any/ non-White people allowed
in. States that didn't want slaves brought in outlawed slavery -- or
declared any slave brought in to be freedmen.
I may have been unclear: the "one State" (or more) involved would not
have done this as a State or perhaps even as a Territory, but when
first settled.
And some agreements/covenants /did/ allow for non-White employees,
provided they lived elsewhere and commuted to and from the White
enclave.
As usual it was white workmen who feared wages being undercut by slave
labor.
Slaves picked cotton and other crops. White workmen worked in industry
coal mining, steelmaking, etc). There was no competition from slaves.
Doesn't mean they weren't racist, though.
There was also simple-minded racism involved. But free states did not
suffer
from the fear as was common in the South of slave rebellions.
After abolition there were towns and cities where black people founded >> the municipality. We had at least one in the Central Valley of
California but
after the automobile was widespread black people with ambitions for a better >> life moved away from the South to find that prejudiced white people had
gotten there first to present new problems. Those white people included
some of my Dad's relatives which is why i don't have anything to do with
that side of my family. All of his brothers and sisters are dead by
this time
in any event.
Again: the "prejudiced people" /did not get there first/ They were
/always/ there. But they did oppose slavery and they did not follow
the South into the deep hole of their "special system".
There were (and, for all I know) still may be small towns in the area
where a Black person is perfectly safe by day, but was well-advised to
leave before the sun goes down. Because evil people work in darkness.
It is true that the "po' white trash" from the South also moved North
for defense jobs, but they fit right in to the existing population. As
noted, the grocery stores serving them did start carrying
hitherto-unknown foods, such as "grits". But that's just capitalism as
its finest (no, really: trying to satisfy a felt need while making a
buck).
A lot of things are better it seems for black folks now but the
police still seem to think that dark skin is a reason for investigation
of people going about their daily activities.
That's what BLM was all about. Remember them?
As opposed to "Antifa", which is just a re-branded Anarchism. During
the demonstrations, I read (on a telephone pole) a notice explaining
how breaking department store show windors was relevent to the goals
of BLM. It was not persuasive.
Nowadays, "looks like a Mexican" is a bigger problem, at least on the
Federal level.
But that's the thing about prejudice: the target may change from time
to time, but the evil is still there.
Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 16:32:32 -0400, William HydeThere are Islamic creationists, and even Hindu creationists, though they
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippo>
I regret to say that my area in particular is less accepting of gays
than it was forty years ago. We've had a serious influx of devout
people from several religions which are not terribly enlightened on this >>> matter. Or other matters. Sermons against evolution are not uncommon >>> hereabouts, mostly in Christian churches, but not entirely.
That's a tough nut to crack. Religious opinions tend to have a strong
emotional content, so attacking the opinion and attacking the
opinion-holder tend to be seen as the same thing. I sometimes
fantasize that an effective argument exists, but it appears to me that
\the real problems are much deeper. From my perspective, a large
percentage of what we now call "Evangelical" groups have wandered far
from the narrow path that leads upward.
Your last sentence could be read as implying that sermons against
evolution can be found in non-Christian churches (eg, Muslims, Jews,
Buddhists, etc -- except, of course, that they would not like to be
called "churches"), which makes no real sense to me.
do not agree with their Christian counterparts on what creation actually means. Obviously there are no young-earth Hindu creationists.
But they're all quite, quite clear on the special independent creation
of man, with no links to those nasty, nasty, apes.
Long ago a comic SF story postulated that we had actually evolved from
pigs rather than apes. Imagine the furor that would cause, if true.
(YASID, anyone?).
William Hyde
On Wed, 17 Sep 2025 10:33:47 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
<snippo -- in fairness, I did identify Antifa with Anarchism>
AntiFa is whatever it is but a lot of it is Anti-Fascism i.e. ProDemocracy
and against the authoritorian imbecile and his peers who have been trying
to turn the nation into a Plutocrarcy with the usual fascist traits.
Trump is
old and aging very quickly so we know he is only human and has a limited
life span left. He may die before I do and I am 10 years older than him.
When it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck
-- I say it is a duck.
And that is what Antifa does -- it looks like Anarchism, acts like
Anarchism, and sounds like Anarchism. Anarchism as we have known it in
the PNW (Seattle and Portland, the latter drawing on Vancouver WA as
well): they hide inside legitimate demonstrations, they insist that
breaking department store windows is somehow serving their ends, they
come up with incoherent justifications for what they do.
Other random Anarchist events:
-- a few years back, when they actually got some of them into a
courtroom, they took advantage of being on the ground floor to break a
window and escape
-- the Italian Police, at the height of the BLM demos, arrested some
persons for having black underwear -- apparently, they had heard that
the Anarchists (rebranded Antifa) dressed in black when breaking store windows but missed the fact that it was the outer clothing that was
black, not necessarily the underwear
-- when a bogus "march" was called for the University Village (a
shopping center) every store had its windows covered with wood
(plywood, presumably) except one -- they put the wood inside the
glass, apparently not caring if the glass was broken so long as their
shelves were not emptied
As noted, we have been dealing with this for a long, long time and the
antics of "Antifa" are very familiar to us.
But both political parties are in the hands of the plutocrats aka oligarchs
who want to be protected from taxation and confiscation of their wealth from >> underpaid workers. Abe Lincoln said that all capitial is derived from
labor.
So until they cut the workers in for a fair share of the profits there
will be
discontent. Hell even after that there will still be discontent because
there
will not be enough room in the marinas or space at the golf courses.
This might have been possible as lately as 10 years ago, but today, I
am afraid, it would no longer work. That ship has sailed.
The demonstrators who put a guillotine outside an ICE office in
California were, I am sorry to say, quite possibly pointing the way to
the solution.
The Reign of Terror was a period during the French Revolution from S
September 5, 1793, to July 27, 1794, characterized by mass executions
and arrests of those deemed counter-revolutionaries, led by the Committee
of Public Safety under Maximilien Robespierre. Approximately 17,000 people >were officially executed, with many more dying in prison or without trial,
as the revolutionary government sought to eliminate perceived threats to its rule.
On Wed, 17 Sep 2025 14:58:59 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
On 9/17/25 13:19, William Hyde wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 16:32:32 -0400, William HydeThere are Islamic creationists, and even Hindu creationists, though they >>> do not agree with their Christian counterparts on what creation actually >>> means. Obviously there are no young-earth Hindu creationists.
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippo>
I regret to say that my area in particular is less accepting of gays >>>>> than it was forty years ago. We've had a serious influx of devout >>>>> people from several religions which are not terribly enlightened on this >>>>> matter. Or other matters. Sermons against evolution are not uncommon >>>>> hereabouts, mostly in Christian churches, but not entirely.
That's a tough nut to crack. Religious opinions tend to have a strong
emotional content, so attacking the opinion and attacking the
opinion-holder tend to be seen as the same thing. I sometimes
fantasize that an effective argument exists, but it appears to me that >>>> \the real problems are much deeper. From my perspective, a large
percentage of what we now call "Evangelical" groups have wandered far
from the narrow path that leads upward.
Your last sentence could be read as implying that sermons against
evolution can be found in non-Christian churches (eg, Muslims, Jews,
Buddhists, etc -- except, of course, that they would not like to be
called "churches"), which makes no real sense to me.
Hindus & Buddhists have temples, Jews have Synagogues. schules,
some museums and community centers, Muslims have mosques and schools,
Shintoist have shrines as do other animistic religions, Catholics,
Orthodox,
Epicopalians and Anglicans have not only churches but Cathedrals.
Edifice comples satisfied i guess.
Thanks for confirming that "other churches" has no meaning when
applied to other religions and, indeed, may be insulting.
I'm not sure how Cathedrals fit in here. IIRC, a church was originally
called a "cathederal" because it contained the "kathedra" (chair -- a literal, physical chair) of a bishop. So your list of denominations
that have cathedrals makes sense, as they also have bishops, as (IIRC)
do Lutherans in Scandinavia (where the bishops converted and so the
cathedral became a Lutheran one).
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
And that is what Antifa does -- it looks like Anarchism, acts like
Anarchism, and sounds like Anarchism. Anarchism as we have known it in
the PNW (Seattle and Portland, the latter drawing on Vancouver WA as
well): they hide inside legitimate demonstrations, they insist that
breaking department store windows is somehow serving their ends, they
come up with incoherent justifications for what they do.
The problem with Antifa is that, contrary to the claims of the right, it is not actually a thing. There is no actual organization. It's like being a "Christian." Anyone call call themselves Christian no matter what they believe in. So there are many mutually contradictory viewpoints all under the same name.
It does strike me that the people who are currently in favor of dismantling the government are on the right. This is strange, since for most of my lifetime they have been on the left. It is very confusing.
--scott
Scott Dorsey wrote:
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
There are Islamic creationists, and even Hindu creationists, though they >>> do not agree with their Christian counterparts on what creation actually >>> means. Obviously there are no young-earth Hindu creationists.
Whenever I hear from creationists, I always make a point of talking to
them
about Zeus. How can you believe in creation without Zeus? I can
usually
talk longer than they can put up with.
I was once told I had a god-shaped hole in my heart. I replied that he
had a Zeus-shaped hole in his.
Odd that we were both alive.
William Hyde
On Fri, 19 Sep 2025 18:57:37 -0400, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 18:33:46 -0400, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
Thanks for confirming that "other churches" has no meaning when
applied to other religions and, indeed, may be insulting.
I see that I missed the point of your objection. "Christian Church could >>>> be considered redundant. I should have said simply "in churches".
But there are non-christian churches. Unitarian Universalist and
Scientologist, for example. In the past some trinitarian Christians have >>>> claimed that even old line Unitarians are not Christians, in particular >>>> the branch that denies any divine status to "The man, Christ".
One of the interesting aspects of Christianity is that there are
Christians who are orthodox (small "o") and Christians who are
heretical.
The the Arians were Christians. Heretical Christians,
As the Arian doctrine is certainly older than the Orthodox, the
declaration of who is heretical simply depends on who has the support of
the secular state.
Not to imply anything here, but the /last/ person who made that point
to a post I had made turned out to belong to a group that is decidedly heterodox, regarding the Nicene Creed as imposed from above and
impervious to the minor detail that Jesus himself is addressed as
"Lord" (which, in Judaism, is the same as "God") and claims God as his Father. Not to mention Paul's distinction between Jesus, God's
physical heir, and the rest of us, heirs by adoption.
That is what I would call a heterodox form of Christianity.
"This year the Christmas decorations will be put up by the Wiccan group".
Much as I admire the sentiment, I'm not sure that would pass muster with
the inquisition.
Probably not -- but then, only a group sanctioned by the Pope would
pass muster with /them/.
In fairness, I should point out that Yule was (is, for some) a pagan
festival which got folded into Christmas. The Yule Log is probably the best-known part of the ceremony, at least for the meaning of "known" "remember hearing about it in an old song".
IIRC, PDQ Bach <https://www.schickele.com/wp/works/compositions/p-d-q-bach-lyrics-choral-christmas-carols/>
wrote some Christmas carols, the first of which features a Yule Log.
Newton and Spinoza, after all, were heretics.
Although it is clear that Newton claimed to be and and probably was an
Arian, I do recall reading a theory that he said "Arian" because, had
he said "Atheist", he would have had even more problems than he did as
an Arian.
Spinoza was a Jewish heretic. If you have a citation that he became a Christian, please advise.
In article <akitck9up9k4fkbv9gejugelev38ha1f1q@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2025 18:57:37 -0400, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 18:33:46 -0400, William Hyde
<wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
Thanks for confirming that "other churches" has no meaning when
applied to other religions and, indeed, may be insulting.
I see that I missed the point of your objection. "Christian Church could >>>>> be considered redundant. I should have said simply "in churches".
But there are non-christian churches. Unitarian Universalist and
Scientologist, for example. In the past some trinitarian Christians have >>>>> claimed that even old line Unitarians are not Christians, in particular >>>>> the branch that denies any divine status to "The man, Christ".
One of the interesting aspects of Christianity is that there are
Christians who are orthodox (small "o") and Christians who are
heretical.
The the Arians were Christians. Heretical Christians,
As the Arian doctrine is certainly older than the Orthodox, the
declaration of who is heretical simply depends on who has the support of >>> the secular state.
Not to imply anything here, but the /last/ person who made that point
to a post I had made turned out to belong to a group that is decidedly
heterodox, regarding the Nicene Creed as imposed from above and
impervious to the minor detail that Jesus himself is addressed as
"Lord" (which, in Judaism, is the same as "God") and claims God as his
Father. Not to mention Paul's distinction between Jesus, God's
physical heir, and the rest of us, heirs by adoption.
Don't reasonable people agree Xtianity ended as soon as Paul got
his hands on it?
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