A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
scott says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
It may just be the senility, but I can't at the moment recall many
stories where generation ships reached their destination before other
humans arrived.
One would be Trar Jbysr'f obbx bs gur ybat fha, and the generation ships
in Pohl and Kornbluth's "Search the sky" brought humans to a number of worlds. But no others spring to mind.
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
On 11/08/2025 16.51, Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
That was more or less the background of Larry Niven's "All the
Bridges Rusting". A generation ship has set out for some other
system when teleportation is developed (tying in to another
recent thread here).
Although people can teleport to the ship's destination, there
is no obvious way to "rescue" the folks on the ship.
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?63026>
In article <107fbv4$38i52$1@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/08/2025 16.51, Alistair Tyrrell wrote:It's a cold-sleep ship, not a generation ship. It's actually
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
That was more or less the background of Larry Niven's "All the
Bridges Rusting". A generation ship has set out for some other
system when teleportation is developed (tying in to another
recent thread here).
Although people can teleport to the ship's destination, there
is no obvious way to "rescue" the folks on the ship.
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?63026>
pretty zippy, which is part of the problem.
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,=20
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
=20
A competition to design a generation ship.
=20
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
=20
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the=20
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you=20
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build=20
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from=20
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans=20
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
scott says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
I was going to point out that a generation ship does not do
hibernation.
But what's the point? It eventually came in by itself.
And, as others have noted, several books have used the idea.
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
It may just be the senility, but I can't at the moment recall many
stories where generation ships reached their destination before other humans arrived.
One would be Trar Jbysr'f obbx bs gur ybat fha, and the generation ships
in Pohl and Kornbluth's "Search the sky" brought humans to a number of worlds. But no others spring to mind.
William Hyde
William Hyde wrote:
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
scott says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
It may just be the senility, but I can't at the moment recall many
stories where generation ships reached their destination before other
humans arrived.
One would be Trar Jbysr'f obbx bs gur ybat fha, and the generation ships
in Pohl and Kornbluth's "Search the sky" brought humans to a number of
worlds. But no others spring to mind.
If you change "generation ship" to "sleeper ship" you get FAR CENTAURUS
by van Vogt.
Paul S Person wrote:
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
scott says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
I was going to point out that a generation ship does not do
hibernation.
But what's the point? It eventually came in by itself.
And, as others have noted, several books have used the idea.
The generation / sleeper ship subtlety was overlooked by me until
Michael pointed it out earlier in this thread.
PR 81 Raumschiff der Ahnen (Spaceship of Ancestors) combines the deep
sleeper with a generation ship.
Only once in their lifetime were the men of their world allowed
to see a woman. When their studies and apprenticeship was over
there was one year of vacation. It was the most beautiful time
of their lives. In that year they got to know some sort of
family life and had only one responsibility-to produce offspring.
When that had occurred, the temporarily coupled individuals
were separated, never to see each other again. The man was
detailed to the work sector for which he had been trained and
remained there until the Commander ordered his elimination. The
woman remained in the children’s sector for several years until
she received her second vacation.
After the birth of the second child her life’s task was fulfilled.
If she had not excelled at anything or applied for some special
training in childcare or education, death in the converter claimed
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
It may just be the senility, but I can't at the moment recall many
stories where generation ships reached their destination before other humans arrived.
One would be Trar Jbysr'f obbx bs gur ybat fha, and the generation ships
in Pohl and Kornbluth's "Search the sky" brought humans to a number of worlds. But no others spring to mind.
William Hyde
PR 81 Raumschiff der Ahnen (Spaceship of Ancestors) combines the deep
sleeper with a generation ship.
Only once in their lifetime were the men of their world allowed
to see a woman. When their studies and apprenticeship was over
there was one year of vacation. It was the most beautiful time
of their lives. In that year they got to know some sort of
family life and had only one responsibility-to produce offspring.
When that had occurred, the temporarily coupled individuals
were separated, never to see each other again. The man was
detailed to the work sector for which he had been trained and
remained there until the Commander ordered his elimination. The
woman remained in the children’s sector for several years until
she received her second vacation.
After the birth of the second child her life’s task was fulfilled. If she had not excelled at anything or applied for some special training in childcare or education, death in the converter claimed her...
# # #
<https://www.perryrhodan.us/summaries/81>
On 8/11/2025 6:11 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C.
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
It may just be the senility, but I can't at the moment recall many
stories where generation ships reached their destination before other
humans arrived.
One would be Trar Jbysr'f obbx bs gur ybat fha, and the generation
ships in Pohl and Kornbluth's "Search the sky" brought humans to a
number of worlds. But no others spring to mind.
William Hyde
David Weber's Honorverse was created by generation ship IIRC.
Lois Bujold's Vorverse was created by a generation ship. Or was it wormholes that opened and closed randomly ?
Lynn
On 8/11/2025 6:11 PM, William Hyde wrote:
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
In article <ivPlQ.597369$k6ec.337903@fx14.iad>,
scott@slp53.sl.home says...
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
A competition to design a generation ship.
https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima C. >>
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
It may just be the senility, but I can't at the moment recall many
stories where generation ships reached their destination before other humans arrived.
One would be Trar Jbysr'f obbx bs gur ybat fha, and the generation ships in Pohl and Kornbluth's "Search the sky" brought humans to a number of worlds. But no others spring to mind.
William Hyde
David Weber's Honorverse was created by generation ship IIRC.
Lois Bujold's Vorverse was created by a generation ship. Or was it wormholes that opened and closed randomly ?
Don wrote:https://www.canva.com/design/DAGmr3ubC8E/LHHAeeAIGGQe_TkZVs-PXA/view
William Hyde wrote:
Alistair Tyrrell wrote:
scott says...
A competition to design a generation ship.
=
C.
Interesting social dynamics proposed. 400 year journey to Proxima=
other
Which writer was it who pointed out that going on the
first generation ship is a bad idea - because after you
leave Earth, science will continue and they will build
faster ships that overtake you. When you wake from
hibernation at the target system you'll find other humans
already there saying 'hi, what took you' ??
It may just be the senility, but I can't at the moment recall many
stories where generation ships reached their destination before =
shipshumans arrived.
One would be Trar Jbysr'f obbx bs gur ybat fha, and the generation =
ofin Pohl and Kornbluth's "Search the sky" brought humans to a number =
CENTAURUSworlds. But no others spring to mind.=20
If you change "generation ship" to "sleeper ship" you get FAR =
=20by van Vogt.
"Sleeper ship" does have the advantage that your children, on reaching=20 >their teen years, do not form a cabal to kill you and turn the ship=20
around while they still have a chance of reaching earth and escaping the=
tin can before they die of old age.
Don wrote:
PR 81 Raumschiff der Ahnen (Spaceship of Ancestors) combines the deepWas it mentioned anywhere that there were twice as many men
sleeper with a generation ship.
Only once in their lifetime were the men of their world allowed
to see a woman. When their studies and apprenticeship was over
there was one year of vacation. It was the most beautiful time
of their lives. In that year they got to know some sort of
family life and had only one responsibility-to produce offspring.
When that had occurred, the temporarily coupled individuals
were separated, never to see each other again. The man was
detailed to the work sector for which he had been trained and
remained there until the Commander ordered his elimination. The
woman remained in the childrenâ??s sector for several years until
she received her second vacation.
After the birth of the second child her lifeâ??s task was fulfilled.
If she had not excelled at anything or applied for some special
training in childcare or education, death in the converter claimed
her...
# # #
<https://www.perryrhodan.us/summaries/81>
as women? But that would require a third infant to supply
the spare male, and that would require a third male . . .
Joy Beeson wrote:claimed
Don wrote:
<snip>
PR 81 Raumschiff der Ahnen (Spaceship of Ancestors) combines the deep
sleeper with a generation ship.
Only once in their lifetime were the men of their world allowed
to see a woman. When their studies and apprenticeship was over
there was one year of vacation. It was the most beautiful time
of their lives. In that year they got to know some sort of
family life and had only one responsibility-to produce offspring.
When that had occurred, the temporarily coupled individuals
were separated, never to see each other again. The man was
detailed to the work sector for which he had been trained and
remained there until the Commander ordered his elimination. The
woman remained in the children=C3=A2??s sector for several years = until
she received her second vacation.
After the birth of the second child her life=C3=A2??s task was = fulfilled.
If she had not excelled at anything or applied for some special
training in childcare or education, death in the converter =
her...Was it mentioned anywhere that there were twice as many men
# # #
<https://www.perryrhodan.us/summaries/81>
as women? But that would require a third infant to supply
the spare male, and that would require a third male . . .
Maybe the newborn sex ratio favors males two to one?
Don wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote:
Don wrote:
<snip>
PR 81 Raumschiff der Ahnen (Spaceship of Ancestors) combines the deepWas it mentioned anywhere that there were twice as many men
sleeper with a generation ship.
Only once in their lifetime were the men of their world allowed
to see a woman. When their studies and apprenticeship was over
there was one year of vacation. It was the most beautiful time
of their lives. In that year they got to know some sort of
family life and had only one responsibility-to produce offspring.
When that had occurred, the temporarily coupled individuals
were separated, never to see each other again. The man was
detailed to the work sector for which he had been trained and
remained there until the Commander ordered his elimination. The
woman remained in the children's sector for several years until
she received her second vacation.
After the birth of the second child her life's task was fulfilled. >>>> If she had not excelled at anything or applied for some special
training in childcare or education, death in the converter claimed >>>> her...
# # #
<https://www.perryrhodan.us/summaries/81>
as women? But that would require a third infant to supply
the spare male, and that would require a third male . . .
Maybe the newborn sex ratio favors males two to one?
So, out of three women, one has two males and the others one of each.
The next generation has only two females in this set.
And every set of three females is doing the same thing.
Oops!
The sex ratio at birth is measured as the number of newborn boys for
every 100 newborn girls. Earth's own newborn sex ratio slightly
favors boys. While the newborn sex ratio on Perry Rhodan's combo
generation and deep sleeper space ship is 200 boys per 100 girls.
Paul S Person wrote:
So, out of three women, one has two males and the others one of each.
The next generation has only two females in this set.
And every set of three females is doing the same thing.
Oops!
Oops! right back at you, big guy.
The sex ratio at birth is measured as the number of newborn boys for
every 100 newborn girls. Earth's own newborn sex ratio slightly
favors boys. While the newborn sex ratio on Perry Rhodan's combo
generation and deep sleeper space ship is 200 boys per 100 girls.
You guys need to put a little more thought into your statistical theory.
This looks like a good place to start:
The Sex Ratio: A Biological and Statistical Conundrum ><https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(20)31190-8.pdf>
Don wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
<snippo>
So, out of three women, one has two males and the others one of each.
The next generation has only two females in this set.
And every set of three females is doing the same thing.
Oops!
Oops! right back at you, big guy.
The sex ratio at birth is measured as the number of newborn boys for
every 100 newborn girls. Earth's own newborn sex ratio slightly
favors boys. While the newborn sex ratio on Perry Rhodan's combo
generation and deep sleeper space ship is 200 boys per 100 girls.
You guys need to put a little more thought into your statistical theory. >>This looks like a good place to start:
The Sex Ratio: A Biological and Statistical Conundrum >><https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdf/S0960-9822(20)31190-8.pdf>
So, we have:
current generation:
300M females
600M males
producing
600M babies
400M of which are male
200M of which are female
in the next generation
How many generations before they are down to the last 3 (1 female and
two males)? Who only produce 2 babies? Who may well both be male?
It is true that slightly more males are born than females. But by the
time they reach adulthood, it is the other way round. And that's with
current infant/child mortality rates. There have been cultures (IIRC)
where children were not even /named/ before they reached the age of 5
because so many of them did not.
Which means that, even if the sex ratio were 300M:300M (each male
getting two bites at the apple, as it were), and the ratio of newborns
was 1:1, there would /still/ be a problem unless they had a really
good medical profession focused entirely on ensuring that each and
every child survived until at least its second child was on the way
(for males) or delivered (for females). And that all of them were
fertile. No extra babies means no room for reality. No room for
reality means utter failure.
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