The Integral Trees (Integral Trees, volume 1) by Larry Niven

Climate change provides a tribal leader a pretext to dispatch his least favourite tribe members on an ill-fated expedition from which none will return.

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/your-sanctuary
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On 8/7/2025 8:53 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

The Integral Trees (Integral Trees, volume 1) by Larry Niven

Climate change provides a tribal leader a pretext to dispatch his least favourite tribe members on an ill-fated expedition from which none will return.

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/your-sanctuary

Allow me to get super picky, and comment on a comment:

Jacob Haller wrote:

I would happily gloss over things like there not being any reason to
think that integral-shaped trees bobbing around in a vacuum would have
a stable orientation.

In this case Jacob's wrong, and Niven was right.

Elongated objects in orbit tend to assume a position with the longest
axis pointed towards to center of the orbit, due to gravity gradients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity-gradient_stabilization

There's a lot of very bad physics in the book, but that at least
is right.

The entire 100 km tree is orbiting with the speed of its center
of mass, while the 'air' is treated as if each molecule is in a
free orbit (Niven ignores that the molecular mean free path in
air is on the order of 10^-7 m).

In that case, the upper end of the tree is moving faster then the
molecules around it, while the lower end is moving slower. This
is what sweeps the ends of the trees into the integral-sign shape.

pt

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

In article <1073n36$d5th$1@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 8/7/2025 8:53 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

The Integral Trees (Integral Trees, volume 1) by Larry Niven

Climate change provides a tribal leader a pretext to dispatch his least favourite tribe members on an ill-fated expedition from which none will return.

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/your-sanctuary

Allow me to get super picky, and comment on a comment:

Jacob Haller wrote:

I would happily gloss over things like there not being any reason to
think that integral-shaped trees bobbing around in a vacuum would have
a stable orientation.

In this case Jacob's wrong, and Niven was right.

Elongated objects in orbit tend to assume a position with the longest
axis pointed towards to center of the orbit, due to gravity gradients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity-gradient_stabilization

There's a lot of very bad physics in the book, but that at least
is right.

I have a vague recollection of Niven mentioning that Robert L. Forward
did some of the world-building, which means that I am reluctant to use
the phrase "bad physics".

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. —-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: home user (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

In article <robertaw-A2E2CB.21445407082025@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

In article <1073n36$d5th$1@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 8/7/2025 8:53 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

The Integral Trees (Integral Trees, volume 1) by Larry Niven

Climate change provides a tribal leader a pretext to dispatch his least
favourite tribe members on an ill-fated expedition from which none will
return.

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/your-sanctuary

Allow me to get super picky, and comment on a comment:

Jacob Haller wrote:

I would happily gloss over things like there not being any reason to
think that integral-shaped trees bobbing around in a vacuum would have
a stable orientation.

In this case Jacob's wrong, and Niven was right.

Elongated objects in orbit tend to assume a position with the longest
axis pointed towards to center of the orbit, due to gravity gradients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity-gradient_stabilization

There's a lot of very bad physics in the book, but that at least
is right.

I have a vague recollection of Niven mentioning that Robert L. Forward
did some of the world-building, which means that I am reluctant to use
the phrase "bad physics".

Remember that Forward's work then got filtered through Niven.


--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Public Access Networks Corp. (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

In article <1074vti$msc$1@reader1.panix.com>,
jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

In article <robertaw-A2E2CB.21445407082025@news.individual.net>,
Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

In article <1073n36$d5th$1@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 8/7/2025 8:53 AM, James Nicoll wrote:

The Integral Trees (Integral Trees, volume 1) by Larry Niven

Climate change provides a tribal leader a pretext to dispatch his least >> > favourite tribe members on an ill-fated expedition from which none will >> > return.

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/your-sanctuary

Allow me to get super picky, and comment on a comment:

Jacob Haller wrote:

I would happily gloss over things like there not being any reason to
think that integral-shaped trees bobbing around in a vacuum would have >> > a stable orientation.

In this case Jacob's wrong, and Niven was right.

Elongated objects in orbit tend to assume a position with the longest
axis pointed towards to center of the orbit, due to gravity gradients.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity-gradient_stabilization

There's a lot of very bad physics in the book, but that at least
is right.

I have a vague recollection of Niven mentioning that Robert L. Forward
did some of the world-building, which means that I am reluctant to use
the phrase "bad physics".

Remember that Forward's work then got filtered through Niven.

The dedication for _Integral Trees_ says that Forward worked on the
parameters of the Smoke Ring. I will point out that the diagrams at the
start of that book specify the radius of the mid point of the Smoke Ring
and other numbers. I wonder where they came from.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. �-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.2 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: home user (3:633/280.2@fidonet)