So I bought a case called 'Unity V2' and it's supposed to be for a RPi4. There's assembly instructions on their site showing the fan should have
3 cables (red, black and blue), but the fan has a fourth (green) cable?
<https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/trengo/media/hc_m_W8ndrq2X1BqWddxsYFFP9hMjDnL4cj.png>
The sticker on the fan says 'Pi-Fan model: ODS-232-3007' which should
have 3 cables.
My question: can I still use this fan for my RPi4? Cut the green wire or simply not use it?
I'm guessing that the blue pin is actually the speed control PWM, and the green is to report spin speed back to the Pi. If you don't care about that you don't need it.
If you're unsure, you can just wire red and black and ignore the other two wires - the fan should spin at full speed and you won't be able to sense the spin speed, but maybe that's ok.
On 03 Dec 2024 10:13:01 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:
I'm guessing that the blue pin is actually the speed control PWM, and the
green is to report spin speed back to the Pi. If you don't care about that >> you don't need it.
If you're unsure, you can just wire red and black and ignore the other two >> wires - the fan should spin at full speed and you won't be able to sense the >> spin speed, but maybe that's ok.
Tnx for the follow-up. According to the shop I could just snip the green wire, so I've done that. I've set it to run at 60°C and the fan's not turning (CPU temperature is 48°C).
Tnx for the follow-up. According to the shop I could just snip the green wire, so I've done that. I've set it to run at 60°C and the fan's not turning (CPU temperature is 48°C).
My Pi 4B runs about that with no fan
On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 07:48:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tnx for the follow-up. According to the shop I could just snip the green >>> wire, so I've done that. I've set it to run at 60°C and the fan's not
turning (CPU temperature is 48°C).
My Pi 4B runs about that with no fan
That's what I'm saying: it's 48°C when the fan is not running. Software
only allows to set a minimum temperature of 60°C before the fan starts running, so I unchecked the setting and now the fan is turning all the
time. A fan with only 2 cables (red & black) should have been enough. I
don't know if there's a way to set that minimum temperature to 40°C...
But yes, it's not really necessary and I shouldn't have bought it. But
it was fun setting it up. I use RPi4 for Pi-Hole and PiVPN. I've played
a little with RetroPie, so maybe I'll give that another go, because I
have two RPi4 now.
I used a Pimoroni Heatsink Case for the first one I bought: <https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/aluminium-heatsink-case-for-raspberry-pi-4?variant=29430673178707>
Temperature is around 40°C.
The Unity V2 comes with a fan: <https://www.kiwi-electronics.com/en/unity-v2-case-for-rpi-4-20096?search=unity>
Temperature is between 30° and 35°C. (There's a real peak when I open
Fx.)
On 06/12/2024 14:53, s|b wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 07:48:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tnx for the follow-up. According to the shop I could just snip theMy Pi 4B runs about that with no fan
green
wire, so I've done that. I've set it to run at 60°C and the fan's not >>>> turning (CPU temperature is 48°C).
That's what I'm saying: it's 48°C when the fan is not running. Software
only allows to set a minimum temperature of 60°C before the fan starts
running, so I unchecked the setting and now the fan is turning all the
time. A fan with only 2 cables (red & black) should have been enough. I
don't know if there's a way to set that minimum temperature to 40°C...
But yes, it's not really necessary and I shouldn't have bought it. But
it was fun setting it up. I use RPi4 for Pi-Hole and PiVPN. I've played
a little with RetroPie, so maybe I'll give that another go, because I
have two RPi4 now.
I used a Pimoroni Heatsink Case for the first one I bought:
<https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/aluminium-heatsink-case-for-
raspberry-pi-4?variant=29430673178707>
Temperature is around 40°C.
The Unity V2 comes with a fan:
<https://www.kiwi-electronics.com/en/unity-v2-case-for-rpi-4-20096?
search=unity>
Temperature is between 30° and 35°C. (There's a real peak when I open
Fx.)
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
On 12/7/24 11:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/12/2024 14:53, s|b wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 07:48:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tnx for the follow-up. According to the shop I could just snip theMy Pi 4B runs about that with no fan
green
wire, so I've done that. I've set it to run at 60°C and the fan's not >>>>> turning (CPU temperature is 48°C).
That's what I'm saying: it's 48°C when the fan is not running. Software >>> only allows to set a minimum temperature of 60°C before the fan starts
running, so I unchecked the setting and now the fan is turning all the
time. A fan with only 2 cables (red & black) should have been enough. I
don't know if there's a way to set that minimum temperature to 40°C...
But yes, it's not really necessary and I shouldn't have bought it. But >>> it was fun setting it up. I use RPi4 for Pi-Hole and PiVPN. I've played
a little with RetroPie, so maybe I'll give that another go, because I
have two RPi4 now.
I used a Pimoroni Heatsink Case for the first one I bought:
<https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/aluminium-heatsink-case-for-
raspberry-pi-4?variant=29430673178707>
Temperature is around 40°C.
The Unity V2 comes with a fan:
<https://www.kiwi-electronics.com/en/unity-v2-case-for-rpi-4-20096?
search=unity>
Temperature is between 30° and 35°C. (There's a real peak when I open
Fx.)
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If
its such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or
an Intel based machine is indicated.
Heat is often about continuous utilisation, like CCTV. On my Pi4 I have
a heavy aluminium case that serves as a heat sink, it is fine without a
fan.
On my Pi5, I use the official active cooler heat sink, which has a fan.
But a good fan, in that it only comes on during the hottest days of summer.
In a moment of stupidity I also bought a metal case for the Pi5 which
messes up my USB keyboard/mouse dongle (reflection?), I haven't checked
to see what it does to Bluetooth and WiFi.
I dislike fans. They fail.They do, but they normally last for years.
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 11:54:48 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I know I don't really need it, but some people claim it's better to have
the CPU at (for instance) 35°C than 48°C. It can't hurt, can it?
I dislike fans. They fail.
Well, if this one fails I won't be in trouble, because it does fine
without it. ;-)
I know I don't really need it, but some people claim it's better to have the CPU at (for instance) 35°C than 48°C. It can't hurt, can it?
I think it will probably extend the chip lifetime from about 150 years
to a couple of thousand.
On 07/12/2024 12:31, Pancho wrote:
On 12/7/24 11:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/12/2024 14:53, s|b wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 07:48:59 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Tnx for the follow-up. According to the shop I could just snip the >>>>>> greenMy Pi 4B runs about that with no fan
wire, so I've done that. I've set it to run at 60°C and the fan's not >>>>>> turning (CPU temperature is 48°C).
That's what I'm saying: it's 48°C when the fan is not running. Software >>>> only allows to set a minimum temperature of 60°C before the fan starts >>>> running, so I unchecked the setting and now the fan is turning all the >>>> time. A fan with only 2 cables (red & black) should have been enough. I >>>> don't know if there's a way to set that minimum temperature to 40°C... >>>>
But yes, it's not really necessary and I shouldn't have bought it. But >>>> it was fun setting it up. I use RPi4 for Pi-Hole and PiVPN. I've played >>>> a little with RetroPie, so maybe I'll give that another go, because I
have two RPi4 now.
I used a Pimoroni Heatsink Case for the first one I bought:
<https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/aluminium-heatsink-case-for-
raspberry-pi-4?variant=29430673178707>
Temperature is around 40°C.
The Unity V2 comes with a fan:
<https://www.kiwi-electronics.com/en/unity-v2-case-for-rpi-4-20096?
search=unity>
Temperature is between 30° and 35°C. (There's a real peak when I open >>>> Fx.)
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If
its such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or
an Intel based machine is indicated.
Heat is often about continuous utilisation, like CCTV. On my Pi4 I have
a heavy aluminium case that serves as a heat sink, it is fine without
a fan.
On my Pi5, I use the official active cooler heat sink, which has a
fan. But a good fan, in that it only comes on during the hottest days
of summer.
In a moment of stupidity I also bought a metal case for the Pi5 which
messes up my USB keyboard/mouse dongle (reflection?), I haven't
checked to see what it does to Bluetooth and WiFi.
I dislike fans. They fail.They do, but they normally last for years.
Not IME
Repaired several computers with failed fans. If you were lucky the fan
itself just needed replacing, If you were unlucky it took the processor
with it.
The trouble is the environment in which they run. In a clean machine
room, OK. In an office full of people some of whom must have had pets
and some of whom smoked, it could be a very common failure...
On 12/7/24 14:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The trouble is the environment in which they run. In a clean machine
room, OK. In an office full of people some of whom must have had pets
and some of whom smoked, it could be a very common failure...
Does your experience come from this millennium?
I remember that type of thing happening, but it was a long time ago.
Modern fans are good, I have CPU fans still running after 10 + years. Stunning reliability.
Plus, CPUs shut down without a running fan, and have thermal shutdown too.
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
In message <vj1d28$31v9g$12@dont-email.me>
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
PC fans run pretty much all the time. A fan on a RasPi is likely to
run less of the time, and could well last longer overall.
In message <vj1d28$31v9g$12@dont-email.me>
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
PC fans run pretty much all the time. A fan on a RasPi is likely to
run less of the time, and could well last longer overall.
Fans fail. Disc drives fail. SSDs fail. Batteries fail. Reservoir capacitors fail. But before they do, they are very useful.
David
On 08/12/2024 19:50, David Higton wrote:
In message <vj1d28$31v9g$12@dont-email.me>
          The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If its >>> such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
PC fans run pretty much all the time. A fan on a RasPi is likely to
run less of the time, and could well last longer overall.
Fans fail. Disc drives fail. SSDs fail. Batteries fail. Reservoir
capacitors fail. But before they do, they are very useful.
Such an ArtStudentâ„¢ view of life.
Do you know what MTBF means?
On 12/9/24 10:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/12/2024 19:50, David Higton wrote:
In message <vj1d28$31v9g$12@dont-email.me>
          The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If
its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
PC fans run pretty much all the time. A fan on a RasPi is likely to
run less of the time, and could well last longer overall.
Fans fail. Disc drives fail. SSDs fail. Batteries fail. Reservoir >>> capacitors fail. But before they do, they are very useful.
Such an ArtStudentâ„¢ view of life.
Do you know what MTBF means?
I was surprised you'd use MTBF for a component which is expected to
steadily deteriorate due to wear and tear.
I though MTBF was more a random failure thing.
For some relatively reliable components, such as people, you initially
see a relatively low failure rate, but come 80 or 90 years they start dropping like flies, due to wear and tear.
For some things like atomic an atomic nucleus, the failure does seem
random, so MTBF seems applicable.
I don't know which it is for PC fans, but would assume it is more wear
and tear than random.
I was surprised you'd use MTBF for a component which is expected toNo it isnt that at all.
steadily deteriorate due to wear and tear.
I though MTBF was more a random failure thing.
On 2024-12-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I was surprised you'd use MTBF for a component which is expected toNo it isnt that at all.
steadily deteriorate due to wear and tear.
I though MTBF was more a random failure thing.
MTBF is a measure for the rate of failures *during normal lifetime* - ie.
1 / failure rate
It is *not* the lifetime of a component. MTBF is a measure for failures during the flat part of the bathtub curve. Failures due to end of lifetime (like normal, not-premature wearout on a fan) are not part of MTBF.
https://www.vitecpower.com/technische-daten/the-difference-between-mtbf-and-lifetime/
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/why-l10-life-expectancy-is-key-for-fan-durability-over-mtbf-ratings
https://www.digi.com/support/knowledge-base/understanding-mtbf-mean-time-between-failures
In message <vj6i1l$c6u2$4@dont-email.me>
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2024 19:50, David Higton wrote:
In message <vj1d28$31v9g$12@dont-email.me>
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If
its such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an >>>> Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
PC fans run pretty much all the time. A fan on a RasPi is likely to run >>> less of the time, and could well last longer overall.
Fans fail. Disc drives fail. SSDs fail. Batteries fail. Reservoir
capacitors fail. But before they do, they are very useful.
Such an ArtStudentâ„¢ view of life.
Do you know what MTBF means?
Yes. Something I don't understand, though, is why so many people use
the term MTBF when the appropriate one would be MTTF, since so few of
the things referred to are repaired.
On 08/12/2024 19:50, David Higton wrote:
In message <vj1d28$31v9g$12@dont-email.me>
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all. If
its such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
PC fans run pretty much all the time. A fan on a RasPi is likely to run less of the time, and could well last longer overall.
Fans fail. Disc drives fail. SSDs fail. Batteries fail. Reservoir capacitors fail. But before they do, they are very useful.
Such an ArtStudentâ„¢ view of life.
Do you know what MTBF means?
Do you know what MTBF means?
Yes. Something I don't understand, though, is why so many people use
the term MTBF when the appropriate one would be MTTF, since so few of
the things referred to are repaired.
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/why-l10-life-expectancy-is-key-for-fan-durability-over-mtbf-ratings
This is full of bullshit
"MTBF estimates the lifespan of a fan’s electronic components, expressed
in millions of hours. In contrast, L10 Service Life, measured in
thousands of hours, is based on the durability of the bearings and lubrication grease."
So a fan with no electronic components has no MTBF?
https://www.digi.com/support/knowledge-base/understanding-mtbf-mean-time-between-failures
"Furthermore, MTBF specifically excludes wear-out factors"
Total crap.
What matters is how long the repair or the new fan will last. Not
splitting hairs over MTTF versus MTBF
On 2024-12-09, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I was surprised you'd use MTBF for a component which is expected toNo it isnt that at all.
steadily deteriorate due to wear and tear.
I though MTBF was more a random failure thing.
MTBF is a measure for the rate of failures *during normal lifetime* - ie.
1 / failure rate
It is *not* the lifetime of a component. MTBF is a measure for failures during the flat part of the bathtub curve. Failures due to end of lifetime (like normal, not-premature wearout on a fan) are not part of MTBF.
On 09/12/2024 12:28, Pancho wrote:
On 12/9/24 10:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No it isnt that at all.
On 08/12/2024 19:50, David Higton wrote:
In message <vj1d28$31v9g$12@dont-email.me>
          The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all.
If its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
PC fans run pretty much all the time. A fan on a RasPi is likely to
run less of the time, and could well last longer overall.
Fans fail. Disc drives fail. SSDs fail. Batteries fail. Reservoir >>>> capacitors fail. But before they do, they are very useful.
Such an ArtStudentâ„¢ view of life.
Do you know what MTBF means?
I was surprised you'd use MTBF for a component which is expected to
steadily deteriorate due to wear and tear.
I though MTBF was more a random failure thing.
For some relatively reliable components, such as people, you initially
see a relatively low failure rate, but come 80 or 90 years they start
dropping like flies, due to wear and tear.
Yup. MTBF of peole is about 70 years.
Never used.
For some things like atomic an atomic nucleus, the failure does seem
random, so MTBF seems applicable.
I don't know which it is for PC fans, but would assume it is more wearIn general fans fail for one reason only. Bearing failure. The cheapos
and tear than random.
use phosphor bronze plain bushes and these dry out and seize up, wear
out and get noisy and start slowing down or get clogged with people's cruft.
You can go for sealed ball races if you like, as in hard drives, but
the price goes up.
In terms of drying out, its time elapsed, not time spent running. Same
for cruft. Only bearing wear is time dependent.
None of these are random., All if them are however dependent on
conditions and maintenance
MTBF is an attempt to get a handle on how long a collection of parts
should stay operational given the spreads of failures in a spread of conditions of the individual parts
There will always be variations in conditions and manufacturing quality
My experience of cheap fans is that 5 years was about the MTBF.
On 09/12/2024 12:28, Pancho wrote:
On 12/9/24 10:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No it isnt that at all.
On 08/12/2024 19:50, David Higton wrote:
In message <vj1d28$31v9g$12@dont-email.me>
          The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>
It's an interesting thought as to why one would use a fan at all.
If its
such a high compute task that you need one, maybe a bigger Pi or an
Intel based machine is indicated.
I dislike fans. They fail.
PC fans run pretty much all the time. A fan on a RasPi is likely to
run less of the time, and could well last longer overall.
Fans fail. Disc drives fail. SSDs fail. Batteries fail. Reservoir >>>> capacitors fail. But before they do, they are very useful.
Such an ArtStudentâ„¢ view of life.
Do you know what MTBF means?
I was surprised you'd use MTBF for a component which is expected to
steadily deteriorate due to wear and tear.
I though MTBF was more a random failure thing.
For some relatively reliable components, such as people, you initially
see a relatively low failure rate, but come 80 or 90 years they start
dropping like flies, due to wear and tear.
Yup. MTBF of peole is about 70 years.
Never used.
For some things like atomic an atomic nucleus, the failure does seem
random, so MTBF seems applicable.
I don't know which it is for PC fans, but would assume it is more wearIn general fans fail for one reason only. Bearing failure. The cheapos
and tear than random.
use phosphor bronze plain bushes and these dry out and seize up, wear
out and get noisy and start slowing down or get clogged with people's cruft.
You can go for sealed ball races if you like, as in hard drives, but
the price goes up.
In terms of drying out, its time elapsed, not time spent running. Same
for cruft. Only bearing wear is time dependent.
None of these are random., All if them are however dependent on
conditions and maintenance
MTBF is an attempt to get a handle on how long a collection of parts
should stay operational given the spreads of failures in a spread of conditions of the individual parts
There will always be variations in conditions and manufacturing quality
My experience of cheap fans is that 5 years was about the MTBF.
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