• Re: Getting along without a keyboard

    From bp@www.zefox.net@3:770/3 to Chris Green on Sat Sep 14 19:44:03 2024
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    You need a virtual keyboard, a web search for 'pi virtual keyboard'
    comes up with loads of hits.

    There are several in the standard Raspbian repositories:-

    apt search "on-screen keyboard"

    Thank you, the choice of search terms makes a big difference!

    That has led to another puzzle: The Pi2 is on a wifi dongle that
    reports a connection using 192.168.1.10 and successfully downloads
    RasPiOS updates. However, turning on ssh using the Raspberry>
    Preferences> Raspberry Pi Configuration menu and rebooting doesn't
    allow ssh login. Indeed, my DHCP server doesn't seem to notice
    that the Pi2 is connected and ping from my Pi5 to the Pi2 reports
    "host is unreachable".

    It wouldn't be a huge mystery if the WiFi couldn't connect, but the
    combination of the Pi2 claiming 192.168.1.10 and yet not being
    visible strikes me as inexplicable unless the software updates are
    being downloaded vi some non-IP protocol, which seems implausible.

    The only clue so far is that traceroute 192.168.1.10 on the Pi5 reports: traceroute to 192.168.1.10 (192.168.1.10), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
    1 192.168.1.11 (192.168.1.11) 3077.790 ms !H 3077.735 ms !H 3077.730 ms !H To clarify, the Pi5 is .11, the router is .254 and I don't know what the traceroute output means but it looks like a complaint about time.

    Am I doing something dumb?

    Thanks for reading!

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Chris Green@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Sun Sep 15 07:23:20 2024
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    You need a virtual keyboard, a web search for 'pi virtual keyboard'
    comes up with loads of hits.

    There are several in the standard Raspbian repositories:-

    apt search "on-screen keyboard"

    Thank you, the choice of search terms makes a big difference!

    That has led to another puzzle: The Pi2 is on a wifi dongle that
    reports a connection using 192.168.1.10 and successfully downloads
    RasPiOS updates. However, turning on ssh using the Raspberry>
    Preferences> Raspberry Pi Configuration menu and rebooting doesn't
    allow ssh login. Indeed, my DHCP server doesn't seem to notice
    that the Pi2 is connected and ping from my Pi5 to the Pi2 reports
    "host is unreachable".

    It wouldn't be a huge mystery if the WiFi couldn't connect, but the combination of the Pi2 claiming 192.168.1.10 and yet not being
    visible strikes me as inexplicable unless the software updates are
    being downloaded vi some non-IP protocol, which seems implausible.

    The only clue so far is that traceroute 192.168.1.10 on the Pi5 reports: traceroute to 192.168.1.10 (192.168.1.10), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
    1 192.168.1.11 (192.168.1.11) 3077.790 ms !H 3077.735 ms !H 3077.730 ms !H
    To clarify, the Pi5 is .11, the router is .254 and I don't know what the traceroute output means but it looks like a complaint about time.

    Three possible things to check:-

    1 - Are the two Pis on the same subnet? I.e. while you have told us
    the whole address for the Pi2 (192.168.1.10) you have only given the
    last digit for the Pi5 and the router. What are the full IPV4
    addreses for the Pi5 and the router. Certainly some widely used
    routers default to 192.168.0.254 and I'm wondering if that is your
    problem. Maybe you even have *two* subnets on the router.

    2 - Are you using the 'guest' WiFi of the router, this may prevent
    connecting between different systems using the WiFi. This may even be
    possible to configure with non-guest networks. You'll have to look
    into the router configuration to check.

    3 - Is the Pi2 connected to the same network/router as the Pi5? Are
    you sure it's using DHCP to get its address? If so then you should be
    able to check on the router that it's connected to as it is the router
    that is handing out IP addresses (usually).


    The first thing I would be doing is to look at the routers's Web GUI
    to check what it thinks is going on and what is connected to where.



    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bp@www.zefox.net@3:770/3 to Chris Green on Sun Sep 15 22:37:29 2024
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

    Three possible things to check:-

    1 - Are the two Pis on the same subnet? I.e. while you have told us
    the whole address for the Pi2 (192.168.1.10) you have only given the
    last digit for the Pi5 and the router. What are the full IPV4
    addreses for the Pi5 and the router. Certainly some widely used
    routers default to 192.168.0.254 and I'm wondering if that is your
    problem. Maybe you even have *two* subnets on the router.

    The router (A DI-524) has only one subnet (192.168.1.nnn) for which it
    is the DHCP server. Both Pi5 and Pi4 use DHCP, with the DHCP range
    from 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.20 .


    2 - Are you using the 'guest' WiFi of the router, this may prevent
    connecting between different systems using the WiFi. This may even be possible to configure with non-guest networks. You'll have to look
    into the router configuration to check.

    There's nothing called guest mode in the config pages, but there are
    "filters", described as "allow or deny LAN users from accessing the
    Internet". Nothing is listed as enabled, so I don't think that's the
    problem.

    There are three firewall rules active, allow ping to WAN port, allow
    LAN to LAN for all protocols and deny WAN to LAN for all protocols.

    3 - Is the Pi2 connected to the same network/router as the Pi5? Are
    you sure it's using DHCP to get its address? If so then you should be
    able to check on the router that it's connected to as it is the router
    that is handing out IP addresses (usually).


    Yes, there is only one router/AP.

    The first thing I would be doing is to look at the routers's Web GUI
    to check what it thinks is going on and what is connected to where.


    The DHCP range is limited to 192.168.1.nnn, with no distinction between
    wired and wireless connections. There's clearly bridging from wirless to
    wired devices such as the printer, which works and can be pinged.

    Maybe there's a firewall between wireless clients. I've certainly not needed such connections much. I'll poke around on the Web to see if there are any references to Guest Mode online. The internal help pages are close to useless, and the configuration menus are worse.

    Thanks for writing, and your patient good counsel!

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Chris Green@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Mon Sep 16 07:16:30 2024
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

    [snip]

    The first thing I would be doing is to look at the routers's Web GUI
    to check what it thinks is going on and what is connected to where.


    The DHCP range is limited to 192.168.1.nnn, with no distinction between
    wired and wireless connections. There's clearly bridging from wirless to wired devices such as the printer, which works and can be pinged.

    Maybe there's a firewall between wireless clients. I've certainly not needed such connections much. I'll poke around on the Web to see if there are any references to Guest Mode online. The internal help pages are close to useless,
    and the configuration menus are worse.

    Router software does sometimes have bugs. I have a TP-link router
    that has a symptom a bit like yours, I can't remember the exact
    details (it's relegated to being an access point now) but I do
    remember that it was something about the firewall treating WiFi
    connections differently from wired ones.

    Can you temporarily connect the Pi2 using a wired connection and see
    if it then works as expected?

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bp@www.zefox.net@3:770/3 to Chris Green on Mon Sep 16 18:39:23 2024
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

    [snip]

    Router software does sometimes have bugs. I have a TP-link router
    that has a symptom a bit like yours, I can't remember the exact
    details (it's relegated to being an access point now) but I do
    remember that it was something about the firewall treating WiFi
    connections differently from wired ones.

    That's much like what I'm seeing.

    Can you temporarily connect the Pi2 using a wired connection and see
    if it then works as expected?

    The Pi2 has been used on wired ethernet, but under
    FreeBSD rather than RasPiOS. The "no route to host" message rather
    suggests the issue resides somewhere in the network.

    The original trigger for this investigation was wanting to use ssh
    to avoid need for a keyboard on the Pi2. With your help I found an accessibility aid called "onboard", using a temporary keyboard.
    For immediate purposes, the problem is solved.

    Thanks very much for all your help!

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From mm0fmf@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Mon Sep 16 20:50:32 2024
    On 16/09/2024 19:39, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

    [snip]

    Router software does sometimes have bugs. I have a TP-link router
    that has a symptom a bit like yours, I can't remember the exact
    details (it's relegated to being an access point now) but I do
    remember that it was something about the firewall treating WiFi
    connections differently from wired ones.

    That's much like what I'm seeing.


    Check if your wireless settings for the router have something called "AP Isolation" or very similar and if it is enabled. If it is enabled,
    devices connected by WiFi will not be able to access each other. Turn it
    off in this case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Mon Sep 16 21:41:30 2024
    On 15/09/2024 23:37, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    3 - Is the Pi2 connected to the same network/router as the Pi5?

    The DHCP range is limited to 192.168.1.nnn, with no distinction between
    wired and wireless connections. There's clearly bridging from wirless to wired devices such as the printer, which works and can be pinged.

    Unfortunately at one location I have to use an externally managed
    router/AP which bridges wireless and wired networks, but not between
    2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi.

    I couldn't talk to a Pi Zero which only uses 2.4GHz from the laptop
    which had connected to 5GHz. I had to go via another Raspberry Pi which
    was connected by Ethernet and could see devices both WiFi frequencies.

    ---druck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bp@www.zefox.net@3:770/3 to druck on Tue Sep 17 00:01:04 2024
    druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
    On 15/09/2024 23:37, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    3 - Is the Pi2 connected to the same network/router as the Pi5?

    The DHCP range is limited to 192.168.1.nnn, with no distinction between
    wired and wireless connections. There's clearly bridging from wirless to
    wired devices such as the printer, which works and can be pinged.

    Unfortunately at one location I have to use an externally managed
    router/AP which bridges wireless and wired networks, but not between
    2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi.

    I couldn't talk to a Pi Zero which only uses 2.4GHz from the laptop
    which had connected to 5GHz. I had to go via another Raspberry Pi which
    was connected by Ethernet and could see devices both WiFi frequencies.

    Was there any mention of this fact in the router docs? Perhaps an explanation of why it's done? That would at least grant some mental peace....

    Thanks for writing,

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bp@www.zefox.net@3:770/3 to none@invalid.com on Mon Sep 16 23:58:21 2024
    mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

    Check if your wireless settings for the router have something called "AP Isolation" or very similar and if it is enabled. If it is enabled,
    devices connected by WiFi will not be able to access each other. Turn it
    off in this case.


    Hmm, nothing related that I have seen. The term "access point" doesn't
    appear in the manual or setup menus, nor "isolation" or anything close
    to it.

    It isn't clear that I've completely searched the Web interface setup
    options, however. And a few topics I don't recognize. One is "Virtual
    Server", described as:
    Virtual Server is used to allow Internet users access to LAN services
    At face value, that seems not to apply.

    Another is "Special Application", described as:
    Special Application is used to run applications that require multiple connections.
    But, the "special applications" list refers to games.

    The firewall rules dangled an option to allow LAN-to-LAN traffic,
    but when I tried to set a rule using the DHCP addresses a dialog
    box saying:
    Allow/Deny traffic from WAN to WAN or LAN to LAN does not support! (sic)

    There's no distinction between WiFi and wired LAN that I can find.

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From mm0fmf@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Tue Sep 17 09:38:05 2024
    On 17/09/2024 00:58, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

    Check if your wireless settings for the router have something called "AP
    Isolation" or very similar and if it is enabled. If it is enabled,
    devices connected by WiFi will not be able to access each other. Turn it
    off in this case.


    Hmm, nothing related that I have seen. The term "access point" doesn't
    appear in the manual or setup menus, nor "isolation" or anything close
    to it.

    It isn't clear that I've completely searched the Web interface setup
    options, however. And a few topics I don't recognize. One is "Virtual Server", described as:
    Virtual Server is used to allow Internet users access to LAN services
    At face value, that seems not to apply.

    Another is "Special Application", described as:
    Special Application is used to run applications that require multiple connections.
    But, the "special applications" list refers to games.

    The firewall rules dangled an option to allow LAN-to-LAN traffic,
    but when I tried to set a rule using the DHCP addresses a dialog
    box saying:
    Allow/Deny traffic from WAN to WAN or LAN to LAN does not support! (sic)

    There's no distinction between WiFi and wired LAN that I can find.

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska


    It's possible it is always enabled. The router has been obsolete for 14
    years, maybe time for a new one?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Tue Sep 17 10:47:03 2024
    On 16/09/2024 19:39, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

    [snip]

    Router software does sometimes have bugs. I have a TP-link router
    that has a symptom a bit like yours, I can't remember the exact
    details (it's relegated to being an access point now) but I do
    remember that it was something about the firewall treating WiFi
    connections differently from wired ones.

    That's much like what I'm seeing.

    Can you temporarily connect the Pi2 using a wired connection and see
    if it then works as expected?

    The Pi2 has been used on wired ethernet, but under
    FreeBSD rather than RasPiOS. The "no route to host" message rather
    suggests the issue resides somewhere in the network.

    No route to host is probably 'I did an ARP request, and nobody answered'


    The original trigger for this investigation was wanting to use ssh
    to avoid need for a keyboard on the Pi2. With your help I found an accessibility aid called "onboard", using a temporary keyboard.
    For immediate purposes, the problem is solved.

    Mmm. It would irk me not to have ssh though. Everything here is sshe'd together. Or NFS. Or webbed!

    Thanks very much for all your help!

    bob prohaska


    --
    "First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors."
    - George Orwell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to druck on Tue Sep 17 10:54:00 2024
    On 16/09/2024 21:41, druck wrote:
    On 15/09/2024 23:37, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    3 - Is the Pi2 connected to the same network/router as the Pi5?
    The DHCP range is limited to 192.168.1.nnn, with no distinction between
    wired and wireless connections. There's clearly bridging from wirless to
    wired devices such as the printer, which works and can be pinged.

    Unfortunately at one location I have to use an externally managed
    router/AP which bridges wireless and wired networks, but not between
    2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi.

    I couldn't talk to a Pi Zero which only uses 2.4GHz from the laptop
    which had connected to 5GHz. I had to go via another Raspberry Pi which
    was connected by Ethernet and could see devices both WiFi frequencies.

    ---druck

    That truly sucks.

    --
    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
    ― Groucho Marx

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Tue Sep 17 10:53:06 2024
    On 17/09/2024 09:38, mm0fmf wrote:
    On 17/09/2024 00:58, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

    Check if your wireless settings for the router have something called "AP >>> Isolation" or very similar and if it is enabled. If it is enabled,
    devices connected by WiFi will not be able to access each other. Turn it >>> off in this case.


    Hmm, nothing related that I have seen. The term "access point" doesn't
    appear in the manual or setup menus, nor "isolation" or anything close
    to it.

    It isn't clear that I've completely searched the Web interface setup
    options, however. And a few topics I don't recognize. One is "Virtual
    Server", described as:
    Virtual Server is used to allow Internet users access to LAN services
    At face value, that seems not to apply.

    Another is "Special Application", described as:
    Special Application is used to run applications that require multiple
    connections.
    But, the "special applications" list refers to games.

    The firewall rules dangled an option to allow LAN-to-LAN traffic,
    but when I tried to set a rule using the DHCP addresses a dialog
    box saying:
    Allow/Deny traffic from WAN to WAN or LAN to LAN does not support! (sic)

    There's no distinction between WiFi and wired LAN that I can find.

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska


    It's possible it is always enabled. The router has been obsolete for 14 years, maybe time for a new one?


    I loved my old D-Link router.
    A thunderstorm got it years ago.

    Since then I had a netgear POS and a CISCO SOHO router - a rebadged
    linksys I think - that was good but the Draytek I now have is even better.

    Unlike many feature rich routers, the draytek has a sanely organised
    user interface and the advanced features actually work...

    I have a friend who is computer illiterate and cannot understand why his
    BT supplied router needs power cycling every few weeks.

    My Draytek has never needed it. Neither did the Cisco.
    Moral. Get a decent router so at least you can eliminate it from your
    problems




    --
    "First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors."
    - George Orwell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Tue Sep 17 11:00:46 2024
    On 17/09/2024 01:01, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
    On 15/09/2024 23:37, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    3 - Is the Pi2 connected to the same network/router as the Pi5?

    The DHCP range is limited to 192.168.1.nnn, with no distinction between
    wired and wireless connections. There's clearly bridging from wirless to >>> wired devices such as the printer, which works and can be pinged.

    Unfortunately at one location I have to use an externally managed
    router/AP which bridges wireless and wired networks, but not between
    2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi.

    I couldn't talk to a Pi Zero which only uses 2.4GHz from the laptop
    which had connected to 5GHz. I had to go via another Raspberry Pi which
    was connected by Ethernet and could see devices both WiFi frequencies.

    Was there any mention of this fact in the router docs? Perhaps an explanation of why it's done? That would at least grant some mental peace....

    Thanks for writing,

    bob prohaska

    I think the rationale is that 'guest' additions to the network
    especially in public places may legitimately access the network's
    internet connection and any servers on it, but shouldn't be allowed to
    'see' each other for security reasons.

    I cant say that exists as a possibility on any wifi routers I ahve or
    access pints, but I have seen it I think on some other peoles kit.

    If I wanted that level of access here, I would configure a second LAN
    attached to a different SSID and put it on an entirely different IP network

    --
    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
    ― Groucho Marx

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From mm0fmf@3:770/3 to druck on Tue Sep 17 12:18:45 2024
    On 16/09/2024 21:41, druck wrote:
    On 15/09/2024 23:37, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    3 - Is the Pi2 connected to the same network/router as the Pi5?
    The DHCP range is limited to 192.168.1.nnn, with no distinction between
    wired and wireless connections. There's clearly bridging from wirless to
    wired devices such as the printer, which works and can be pinged.

    Unfortunately at one location I have to use an externally managed
    router/AP which bridges wireless and wired networks, but not between
    2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi.

    I couldn't talk to a Pi Zero which only uses 2.4GHz from the laptop
    which had connected to 5GHz. I had to go via another Raspberry Pi which
    was connected by Ethernet and could see devices both WiFi frequencies.

    ---druck

    That's AP Isolation at work. It stops Wifi devices communicating with
    each. The idea is if you have lots of guest devices connecting, AP
    Isolation stops them talking direct to each other and is meant to limit
    a rogue guest device ability to do bad things to other guests.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Scott Alfter@3:770/3 to tnp@invalid.invalid on Tue Sep 17 15:08:04 2024
    In article <vcbji2$3evhe$4@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Moral. Get a decent router so at least you can eliminate it from your >problems

    Another recommendation: Look for something that can run OpenWRT, so you're
    not stuck with whatever firmware the router manufacturer provides.

    A third recommendation: a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 and a carrier board that adds a second Ethernet port make a pretty good platform to run OpenWRT. The CPU and memory on the CM4 will blow the doors off of most of the routers you'd likely buy for home use, and I suspect they're competitive with nearly anything short of rack-mountable enterprise-grade routers. The onboard WiFi (on models so equipped) probably isn't so hot, but it's a solid option for wired connections up to at least gigabit speeds and WiFi can be provided
    with a separate access point or a USB dongle.

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Scott Alfter on Tue Sep 17 17:19:15 2024
    On 17/09/2024 16:08, Scott Alfter wrote:
    In article <vcbji2$3evhe$4@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Moral. Get a decent router so at least you can eliminate it from your
    problems

    Another recommendation: Look for something that can run OpenWRT, so you're not stuck with whatever firmware the router manufacturer provides.

    A third recommendation: a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 and a carrier board that adds a second Ethernet port make a pretty good platform to run OpenWRT. The CPU and memory on the CM4 will blow the doors off of most of the routers you'd likely buy for home use, and I suspect they're competitive with nearly anything short of rack-mountable enterprise-grade routers. The onboard WiFi (on models so equipped) probably isn't so hot, but it's a solid option for wired connections up to at least gigabit speeds and WiFi can be provided
    with a separate access point or a USB dongle.


    Why a compute module especially?
    Wouldn't e.g. a Pi4 be just as good?

    But once again, these are 'hobbyist' choices. Sometimes I like to spend
    money rather than time and buy really solid solutions.

    In fact my motto is 'dont build what you can buy'.
    My custom hardware solutions exist because they cannot be bought satisfactorally.


    --
    “But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!”

    Mary Wollstonecraft

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From mm0fmf@3:770/3 to Scott Alfter on Tue Sep 17 17:22:15 2024
    On 17/09/2024 16:08, Scott Alfter wrote:
    In article <vcbji2$3evhe$4@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Moral. Get a decent router so at least you can eliminate it from your
    problems

    Another recommendation: Look for something that can run OpenWRT, so you're not stuck with whatever firmware the router manufacturer provides.

    A third recommendation: a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 and a carrier board that adds a second Ethernet port make a pretty good platform to run OpenWRT. The CPU and memory on the CM4 will blow the doors off of most of the routers you'd likely buy for home use, and I suspect they're competitive with nearly anything short of rack-mountable enterprise-grade routers. The onboard WiFi (on models so equipped) probably isn't so hot, but it's a solid option for wired connections up to at least gigabit speeds and WiFi can be provided
    with a separate access point or a USB dongle.


    I have just replaced my router after 12 years fine continuous service.
    It was TP-Link model bought because it could run OpenWRT. But it turned
    out the OpenWRT 5GHz driver performance was poor so I locked down the
    TP-Link software as much as I could. I regularly tried various ways of
    breaking in but never could. It was good and fast enough. It was an
    AC1300 class router.

    Earlier this year it started locking up... Wifi would fail then the UI
    would fail. A power cycle restored it and it would run for another week
    or so. Then Wifi range started dropping and the lock ups became more
    frequent. I'm assuming there are some electro lytic caps that have dried
    out. After 12+ years I bought a new one, another TP-Link Wifi6 unit as
    the last had worked well. The unit had a number of decent reviews.
    Throughput is noticeably better than the old, especially if say there
    are 2 TVs accessing Netflix plus wired computers and assorted Wifi
    devices. The 5GHz signal is significantly stronger about the house. I
    should look at the old one sometime but I had won an Amazon voucher so
    this was a quick fix at effectively no cost. The software seems to have
    fewer features than the old one but it does what it claims very well.

    I did think of the CM4 route and OpenWRT but when I was last minded to
    faff about lockdown was on and there were no Pis for love nor money.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bp@www.zefox.net@3:770/3 to none@invalid.com on Tue Sep 17 16:56:26 2024
    mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

    That's AP Isolation at work. It stops Wifi devices communicating with
    each. The idea is if you have lots of guest devices connecting, AP
    Isolation stops them talking direct to each other and is meant to limit
    a rogue guest device ability to do bad things to other guests.

    The problem is solved, and I'm feeling quite stupid about the solution.

    It turns out that setting a reserved DHCP address for the wireless client
    MAC address un-isolates hosts on WiFi. Ssh and ping work now. Interestingly, setting a static address at the client end, by itself, does not lift the isolation. An old iMac with a static IP connected to the LAN via a WiFi- Ethernet bridge still can't be pinged but connects outbound just fine.

    On reflection it makes perfect sense.....

    I've played with the idea of getting an open-wrt-compatible router in the
    past, but dropped the idea after finding nothing suitable at the local
    thrift store. Perhaps I should look again.

    Thanks to everyone for all your help!

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Tue Sep 17 19:17:47 2024
    On 17/09/2024 17:56, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

    That's AP Isolation at work. It stops Wifi devices communicating with
    each. The idea is if you have lots of guest devices connecting, AP
    Isolation stops them talking direct to each other and is meant to limit
    a rogue guest device ability to do bad things to other guests.

    The problem is solved, and I'm feeling quite stupid about the solution.

    It turns out that setting a reserved DHCP address for the wireless client
    MAC address un-isolates hosts on WiFi. Ssh and ping work now. Interestingly, setting a static address at the client end, by itself, does not lift the isolation. An old iMac with a static IP connected to the LAN via a WiFi- Ethernet bridge still can't be pinged but connects outbound just fine.


    How weird.
    One feels there ought to be a simple snitch to switch that behaviour
    off, somewhere on the router
    Or that if you use static address outsoide the DHCP range that should
    work too

    On reflection it makes perfect sense.....

    Well, yes and no..

    Its all a bit Putin-like in its centralised state control...:-)


    I've played with the idea of getting an open-wrt-compatible router in the past, but dropped the idea after finding nothing suitable at the local
    thrift store. Perhaps I should look again.

    Are you *that* strapped for cash?


    --
    If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
    eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
    time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
    and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
    important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
    the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
    truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

    Joseph Goebbels

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Chris Green@3:770/3 to bp@www.zefox.net on Tue Sep 17 20:39:00 2024
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

    I've played with the idea of getting an open-wrt-compatible router in the past, but dropped the idea after finding nothing suitable at the local
    thrift store. Perhaps I should look again.

    I am using Asus routers now which, by default, run a version of OpenWrt
    called AsusWrt. However, even better, is asuswrt-merlin which is easy
    to install instead of Asuswrt and gives you all sorts of customisation
    if you want.

    Not all Asus routers can run Asuswrt-Merlin but there's a fair number
    that can and many of them are available at very reasonable prices
    secondhand on eBay or from such as CEX.

    The user interface GUI is really nice (though quite complex because
    there is so much that can be configured). My previous routers were
    Draytek Vigor which have a pretty good reputation but I really find
    the Asus ones much better in all sorts of ways.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to All on Tue Sep 17 21:42:32 2024
    T24gMTcvMDkvMjAyNCAxMjoxOCwgbW0wZm1mIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBPbiAxNi8wOS8yMDI0IDIx OjQxLCBkcnVjayB3cm90ZToNCj4+IFVuZm9ydHVuYXRlbHkgYXQgb25lIGxvY2F0aW9uIEkg aGF2ZSB0byB1c2UgYW4gZXh0ZXJuYWxseSBtYW5hZ2VkIA0KPj4gcm91dGVyL0FQIHdoaWNo IGJyaWRnZXMgd2lyZWxlc3MgYW5kIHdpcmVkIG5ldHdvcmtzLCBidXQgbm90IGJldHdlZW4g DQo+PiAyLjRHSHogYW5kIDVHSHogV2lGaS4NCj4+DQo+PiBJIGNvdWxkbid0IHRhbGsgdG8g YSBQaSBaZXJvIHdoaWNoIG9ubHkgdXNlcyAyLjRHSHogZnJvbSB0aGUgbGFwdG9wIA0KPj4g d2hpY2ggaGFkIGNvbm5lY3RlZCB0byA1R0h6LiBJIGhhZCB0byBnbyB2aWEgYW5vdGhlciBS YXNwYmVycnkgUGkgDQo+PiB3aGljaCB3YXMgY29ubmVjdGVkIGJ5IEV0aGVybmV0IGFuZCBj b3VsZCBzZWUgZGV2aWNlcyBib3RoIFdpRmkgDQo+PiBmcmVxdWVuY2llcy4NCj4gDQo+IFRo YXQncyBBUCBJc29sYXRpb24gYXQgd29yay7CoCBJdCBzdG9wcyBXaWZpIGRldmljZXMgY29t bXVuaWNhdGluZyB3aXRoIA0KPiBlYWNoLiBUaGUgaWRlYSBpcyBpZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBsb3Rz IG9mIGd1ZXN0IGRldmljZXMgY29ubmVjdGluZywgQVAgDQo+IElzb2xhdGlvbiBzdG9wcyB0 aGVtIHRhbGtpbmcgZGlyZWN0IHRvIGVhY2ggb3RoZXIgYW5kIGlzIG1lYW50IHRvIGxpbWl0 IA0KPiBhIHJvZ3VlIGd1ZXN0IGRldmljZSBhYmlsaXR5IHRvIGRvIGJhZCB0aGluZ3MgdG8g b3RoZXIgZ3Vlc3RzLg0KDQpBUCBpc29sYXRpb24gc2hvdWxkIHN0b3AgYW55IGRldmljZSB0 YWxraW5nIHRvIGFueSBvdGhlciBvbiB0aGUgbG9jYWwgDQpuZXR3b3JrLCBvbmx5IGFsbG93 aW5nIGFjY2VzcyB0byB0aGUgaW50ZXJuZXQsIHdoaWNoIGlzIHdoYXQgaGFwcGVucyBvbiAN Cm15IGd1ZXN0IG5ldHdvcmsgYXQgaG9tZS4NCg0KV2l0aCB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSByb3V0ZXIg ZGV2aWNlcyBvbiAyLjRHSHogY2FuIHNlZSBvdGhlcnMgb24gMi40R0h6IGFuZCANCndpcmVk LCBkZXZpY2VzIG9uIDVHSHogY2FuIHNlZSBvdGhlcnMgb24gNUdIeiBhbmQgd2lyZWQuIFdp cmVkIGRldmljZXMgDQpjYW4gc2VlIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcuDQoNCkkgc3VzcGVjdCBpZiBJIGNh biBnZXQgdGhyb3VnaCAyIGxldmVscyBvZiBjbHVlbGVzc25lc3Mgc3VwcG9ydCBhdCB0aGUg DQptYW5hZ2VtZW50IGNvbXBhbnksIEkgY291bGQgZ2V0IHdoYXRldmVyIHNldHRpbmcgdGhh dCBpcyByZXNwb25zaWJsZSANCmNoYW5nZWQuIEJ1dCBpdCB0b29rIHNpeCBtb250aHMgZm9y IHRoZW0gdG8gcmVwbGFjZSB0aGUgbGFzdCByb3V0ZXIgDQp3aGljaCB3YXMgY29udGludWFs bHkgcmVib290aW5nLCBhbHRob3VnaCBkaWRuJ3Qgc3VmZmVyIGZyb20gdGhlIA0Kc2VtaS1p c29sYXRpb24uDQoNCi0tLWRydWNrDQo=

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bp@www.zefox.net@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Sep 18 01:16:23 2024
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 17/09/2024 17:56, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

    The problem is solved, and I'm feeling quite stupid about the solution.

    I've played with the idea of getting an open-wrt-compatible router in the
    past, but dropped the idea after finding nothing suitable at the local
    thrift store. Perhaps I should look again.

    Are you *that* strapped for cash?

    No, but I am a skinflint 8-) At the time there weren't any known problems
    with the router, it was just to have a spare which I didn't urgently need.
    The prices for even simple new routers seemed rather high, being during
    the initial Covid ruckus, and the features baffling to a Luddite.

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Anssi Saari@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Sep 18 13:36:07 2024
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    Unlike many feature rich routers, the draytek has a sanely organised
    user interface and the advanced features actually work...

    High praise. Which Draytek router BTW? I had one a few years ago but it
    was strangely broken and I eventually had to return it and as it was out
    of production I just got a refund. I went with a fairly awful Mikrotik
    until I got around to building my own from a PC Engines APU2 board.

    I really like how Draytek puts a simulation of their web interface
    online. Nothing like seeing it yourself, even if you can't really do
    anything in the simulation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Anssi Saari on Wed Sep 18 12:43:07 2024
    On 18/09/2024 11:36, Anssi Saari wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    Unlike many feature rich routers, the draytek has a sanely organised
    user interface and the advanced features actually work...

    High praise. Which Draytek router BTW? I had one a few years ago but it
    was strangely broken and I eventually had to return it and as it was out
    of production I just got a refund. I went with a fairly awful Mikrotik
    until I got around to building my own from a PC Engines APU2 board.

    I have a Mikrotik HAPLITE TC as Wifi access point. Awful user
    interface, Nothing on it worked except by cribbing something off the
    net, I got it to work as a wifi access point!

    Very cheap tho

    Once I had incanted the right magic spell, it has been rock solid.


    My draytek is one with two voip phone sockets in.

    As the UK is moving away from everything except VOIP for landline
    phones, that would be handy, except the ISPs are reselling BTs
    proprietary shit and the old free SIPGATE doesn't like 'free' any more.


    Vigor 2762Vac

    System Up Time: 2398:28:36

    They are getting on for $200 now I think

    I really like how Draytek puts a simulation of their web interface
    online. Nothing like seeing it yourself, even if you can't really do
    anything in the simulation.

    I didn't know they did that!


    --
    Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
    name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
    or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
    logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
    the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
    face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

    Ayn Rand.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Scott Alfter@3:770/3 to tnp@invalid.invalid on Wed Sep 18 18:22:01 2024
    In article <vcca63$3je29$3@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 17/09/2024 16:08, Scott Alfter wrote:
    In article <vcbji2$3evhe$4@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Moral. Get a decent router so at least you can eliminate it from your
    problems

    Another recommendation: Look for something that can run OpenWRT, so you're >> not stuck with whatever firmware the router manufacturer provides.

    A third recommendation: a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 and a carrier board >> that adds a second Ethernet port make a pretty good platform to run OpenWRT. >> The CPU and memory on the CM4 will blow the doors off of most of the routers >> you'd likely buy for home use, and I suspect they're competitive with nearly >> anything short of rack-mountable enterprise-grade routers. The onboard WiFi >> (on models so equipped) probably isn't so hot, but it's a solid option for >> wired connections up to at least gigabit speeds and WiFi can be provided
    with a separate access point or a USB dongle.


    Why a compute module especially?
    Wouldn't e.g. a Pi4 be just as good?

    You're stuck with USB network adapters if you use a Pi 4. With a CM4, there are carrier boards that route the built-in Ethernet to one port and connect
    a second port over PCIe. This is the one I use:

    https://wiki.dfrobot.com/Compute_Module_4_IoT_Router_Board_Mini_SKU_DFR0767

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Chris Green@3:770/3 to Anssi Saari on Wed Sep 18 20:17:07 2024
    Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    Unlike many feature rich routers, the draytek has a sanely organised
    user interface and the advanced features actually work...

    High praise. Which Draytek router BTW? I had one a few years ago but it
    was strangely broken and I eventually had to return it and as it was out
    of production I just got a refund. I went with a fairly awful Mikrotik
    until I got around to building my own from a PC Engines APU2 board.

    I really like how Draytek puts a simulation of their web interface
    online. Nothing like seeing it yourself, even if you can't really do
    anything in the simulation.

    I used Draytek routers until a year or so ago but now I'm 100% with
    Asus routers running asuswrt-merlin. It's another (much better) world.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Scott Alfter on Thu Sep 19 07:48:01 2024
    On 18/09/2024 19:22, Scott Alfter wrote:
    In article <vcca63$3je29$3@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 17/09/2024 16:08, Scott Alfter wrote:
    In article <vcbji2$3evhe$4@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Moral. Get a decent router so at least you can eliminate it from your
    problems

    Another recommendation: Look for something that can run OpenWRT, so you're >>> not stuck with whatever firmware the router manufacturer provides.

    A third recommendation: a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 and a carrier board >>> that adds a second Ethernet port make a pretty good platform to run OpenWRT.
    The CPU and memory on the CM4 will blow the doors off of most of the routers
    you'd likely buy for home use, and I suspect they're competitive with nearly
    anything short of rack-mountable enterprise-grade routers. The onboard WiFi
    (on models so equipped) probably isn't so hot, but it's a solid option for >>> wired connections up to at least gigabit speeds and WiFi can be provided >>> with a separate access point or a USB dongle.


    Why a compute module especially?
    Wouldn't e.g. a Pi4 be just as good?

    You're stuck with USB network adapters if you use a Pi 4. With a CM4, there are carrier boards that route the built-in Ethernet to one port and connect
    a second port over PCIe. This is the one I use:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that hardly
    seems an issue

    https://wiki.dfrobot.com/Compute_Module_4_IoT_Router_Board_Mini_SKU_DFR0767


    --
    Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
    twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
    on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
    projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

    Richard Lindzen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to Chris Green on Thu Sep 19 10:22:58 2024
    On 17/09/2024 20:39, Chris Green wrote:
    bp@www.zefox.net wrote:

    I've played with the idea of getting an open-wrt-compatible router in the
    past, but dropped the idea after finding nothing suitable at the local
    thrift store. Perhaps I should look again.

    I am using Asus routers now which, by default, run a version of OpenWrt called AsusWrt. However, even better, is asuswrt-merlin which is easy
    to install instead of Asuswrt and gives you all sorts of customisation
    if you want.

    I'll second that. Great WiFi strength, powerful multi-core CPUs and lots
    of RAM, unlike some other makes.

    Not all Asus routers can run Asuswrt-Merlin but there's a fair number
    that can and many of them are available at very reasonable prices
    secondhand on eBay or from such as CEX.

    I've picked up my last couple from e-bay, as ASUS routers are popular
    with gamers, and they must absolutely have the latest model to save
    0.5us of latency, so you can find some almost new routers going very
    cheap. I just upgraded my primary one to an RT-AX86U from an RT-AC86U
    also from e-bay.

    My original 10 year old RT-AC68U is still going strong, now used as a
    WiFi relay for the Pi's in the shed at the bottom of the garden - it
    gives 5GHz connection where the Pi's struggle with 2.4GHz.

    The user interface GUI is really nice (though quite complex because
    there is so much that can be configured).

    All very useful stuff, when you work out what it all does!

    It's also got good monitoring faculties, and all my remote Pi's are
    connected via it's built-in VPN.

    ---druck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Scott Alfter@3:770/3 to tnp@invalid.invalid on Thu Sep 19 16:12:22 2024
    In article <vcghf1$fidv$6@dont-email.me>,
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 18/09/2024 19:22, Scott Alfter wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Why a compute module especially?
    Wouldn't e.g. a Pi4 be just as good?

    You're stuck with USB network adapters if you use a Pi 4. With a CM4, there >> are carrier boards that route the built-in Ethernet to one port and connect >> a second port over PCIe. This is the one I use:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that hardly >seems an issue

    I suspect faster connections aren't nearly as uncommon as you think. My downstream speed at home is 300 Mbps, and it's far from the fastest service that Cox offers.

    In any case, if you're currently shopping for router hardware, I'd think a
    bit of future-proofing would be prudent.

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Sep 19 17:51:02 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that hardly seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've never
    liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    For forms of government let fools contest
    Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu Sep 19 18:44:49 2024
    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that hardly
    seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

    Its more than good enough for me

    What I like is the reliability of FTTP. Not the raw speed

    --
    Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
    But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Ahem A Rivet's Shot@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Thu Sep 19 19:10:45 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

    Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    --
    Steve O'Hara-Smith
    Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
    For forms of government let fools contest
    Whate're is best administered is best - Alexander Pope

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From mm0fmf@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Thu Sep 19 22:01:49 2024
    On 19/09/2024 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

    Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    I have a 20/130Mbps cable package. My road was fibred and the same
    package was £17/month cheaper on fibre than cable. I could get moved to
    fibre and eventually move to 900/900Mbps. I moaned and moaned at the
    cable provider (Virgin) and they price matched the cable to stop me
    leaving. I didn't have to change anything which suits a lazy sod like me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to Ahem A Rivet's Shot on Fri Sep 20 09:15:17 2024
    On 19/09/2024 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

    I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

    Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    I bet your linux updates dont download any faster though...


    --
    “But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!”

    Mary Wollstonecraft

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@3:770/3 to All on Fri Sep 20 09:16:46 2024
    On 19/09/2024 22:01, mm0fmf wrote:
    On 19/09/2024 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

        I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural
    Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier.

    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

        Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the >> price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    I have a 20/130Mbps cable package. My road was fibred and the same
    package was £17/month cheaper on fibre than cable. I could get moved to fibre and eventually move to 900/900Mbps. I moaned and moaned at the
    cable provider (Virgin) and they price matched the cable to stop me leaving.  I didn't have to change anything which suits a lazy sod like me.


    You mean you passed up an opportunity to leave Virgin and save money?
    Everyone I know who was on Virgin cable is now on something else.


    --
    “But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an hypothesis!”

    Mary Wollstonecraft

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Joerg Walther@3:770/3 to All on Fri Sep 20 16:17:53 2024
    mm0fmf wrote:

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    It won't take long until most ISPs will want to get rid of the double infrastructure VDSL/Fibre, it may happen soon that you will have to
    switch to Fibre or end up with no phone/internet connectivity at all.

    -jw-
    --
    And now for something completely different...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From bp@www.zefox.net@3:770/3 to Joerg Walther on Fri Sep 20 15:34:53 2024
    Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> wrote:

    It won't take long until most ISPs will want to get rid of the double infrastructure VDSL/Fibre, it may happen soon that you will have to
    switch to Fibre or end up with no phone/internet connectivity at all.


    Fearing the same, I asked my DSL provider what the foreseeable threats
    to my service might be. The answer was "squirrels".

    bob prohaska

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From mm0fmf@3:770/3 to The Natural Philosopher on Fri Sep 20 19:00:21 2024
    On 20/09/2024 09:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 19/09/2024 22:01, mm0fmf wrote:
    On 19/09/2024 19:10, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 18:44:49 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 17:51, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:48:01 +0100
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Given that few of us have internet connections over 100Mbps, that
    hardly seems an issue

        I've had gigabit FTTH for a few years now - and I'm in rural >>>>> Ireland. I use an old PC running FreeBSD as a router/firewall, I've
    never liked commercial routers, using a proper OS is so much easier. >>>>>
    I picked the 'economy' package at 40/10 Mps

        Wow the only options on offer here are 500/50 or 1000/100 with the >>> price increment for 1000/100 being minimal.

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    I have a 20/130Mbps cable package. My road was fibred and the same
    package was £17/month cheaper on fibre than cable. I could get moved
    to fibre and eventually move to 900/900Mbps. I moaned and moaned at
    the cable provider (Virgin) and they price matched the cable to stop
    me leaving.  I didn't have to change anything which suits a lazy sod
    like me.


    You mean you passed up an opportunity to leave Virgin and save money? Everyone I know who was on Virgin cable is now on something else.


    Well now you know someone who didn't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From mm0fmf@3:770/3 to Joerg Walther on Fri Sep 20 19:01:52 2024
    On 20/09/2024 15:17, Joerg Walther wrote:
    mm0fmf wrote:

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    It won't take long until most ISPs will want to get rid of the double infrastructure VDSL/Fibre, it may happen soon that you will have to
    switch to Fibre or end up with no phone/internet connectivity at all.

    -jw-
    I don't have a wired phone or xDSL, I have cable, DOCSIS 3 of some kind.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@3:770/3 to Joerg Walther on Fri Sep 20 18:40:50 2024
    On 2024-09-20, Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> wrote:

    mm0fmf wrote:

    There are plenty of midspeed packages so switching from cable/VDSL to
    fibre lets the ISPs sell you slow fibre for the same as VDSL etc.

    It won't take long until most ISPs will want to get rid of the double infrastructure VDSL/Fibre, it may happen soon that you will have to
    switch to Fibre or end up with no phone/internet connectivity at all.

    Locally, Telus pushed hard to replace copper with fibre, first with
    incentives, then replacement of remamining copper when we holdouts
    were few enough to make it worth their while. Now I can enjoy the
    loss of dial tone (and 911 service) when the power goes out, just
    like everybody else.

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as the
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | first society that wouldn't save
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | itself because it wasn't cost-
    / \ if you read it the right way. | effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Bob Latham@3:770/3 to none@invalid.com on Fri Sep 20 20:03:51 2024
    In article <vckd7n$16u5c$1@dont-email.me>,
    mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 20/09/2024 09:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 19/09/2024 22:01, mm0fmf wrote:

    [Snip]

    I have a 20/130Mbps cable package. My road was fibred and the
    same package was 17/month cheaper on fibre than cable. I could
    get moved to fibre and eventually move to 900/900Mbps. I moaned
    and moaned at the cable provider (Virgin) and they price
    matched the cable to stop me leaving. I didn't have to change
    anything which suits a lazy sod like me.


    You mean you passed up an opportunity to leave Virgin and save
    money? Everyone I know who was on Virgin cable is now on
    something else.


    Well now you know someone who didn't.

    Similar for me. Been with Virgin since 2000 as BT were useless at
    that time. Yes, they're expensive but fast and reliable at least for
    me.

    This year we get leaflets through the door from BRSK for full fibre.
    But, they use CGNAT, not good and to get around that you can buy a
    static IP which is another 5 per month.

    They were still cheaper by 20 per month. Phoned up Virgin and moaned
    and moaned, they knocked 16 off the bill so still 4 more but it's a
    known product with known benefits/issues and the BRSK offer is just
    that, it will not last. It's just to draw new customers who will get
    a shock next time around.

    In addition I will not upset the neighbours by getting BRSK and
    therefore getting a pole installed for which I would not be thanked.

    Money is not the only factor.

    Bob.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to BP@WWW.ZEFOX.NET on Sat Sep 21 10:20:00 2024
    Fearing the same, I asked my DSL provider what the foreseeable threats
    to my service might be. The answer was "squirrels".

    About once ever year or two the cable company will have to come out and
    replace the drop line to my house because squirrels have chewed far enough through it that water gets in (and stays in) the cable.

    They like this area because a neighbor across the street feeds them peanuts
    in the shell. There is a certain time every morning you can watch them
    scurry across the street, and you will find the peanut shells (with one
    chamber empty and the other still with a nut in it) burried everywhere.


    * SLMR 2.1a * The 4 major food groups: fast, frozen, junk, & spoiled.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)
  • From Anssi Saari@3:770/3 to Chris Green on Mon Sep 23 13:54:45 2024
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> writes:

    I used Draytek routers until a year or so ago but now I'm 100% with
    Asus routers running asuswrt-merlin. It's another (much better) world.

    Is it? I haven't been too sure OpenWRT has the manpower to provide
    timely security updates, I especially wondered about this around when
    the LEDE project seemed to fork off. Which is why I looked elsewhere. I
    assume asuswrt-merlin is also a small team but don't really know.

    Anyway, not looking to run anything other than Debian Linux on my router
    for now.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From druck@3:770/3 to Anssi Saari on Wed Sep 25 10:23:06 2024
    On 23/09/2024 11:54, Anssi Saari wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> writes:

    I used Draytek routers until a year or so ago but now I'm 100% with
    Asus routers running asuswrt-merlin. It's another (much better) world.

    Is it? I haven't been too sure OpenWRT has the manpower to provide
    timely security updates, I especially wondered about this around when
    the LEDE project seemed to fork off. Which is why I looked elsewhere. I assume asuswrt-merlin is also a small team but don't really know.

    At least someone is working on it, unlike a lot of cheap routers who's
    firmware is abandoned before it even hits the shops.

    ---druck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)