Hi Ben,

Somehow a bunch of Fido from 2023 came thru today. I'm answering the "to
me" ones, don't recall if I did then or not (too much has happened in
the last couple of years for me to remember).

Re: Sourdough Whole-Wheat Biscuits
By: Ruth Haffly to Ben Collver on Thu May 11 2023 12:24:13

These are NOT! whole wheat biscuits; they're 1/4 whole wheat, 3/4 white flour. They may be made (and have been made many times) with 100% whole wheat flour. Try them using all whole wheat flour; you'll like them a
lot better. (G) You may want to try whole wheat pastry flour instead...

Thanks for the tip. I bet i would like the 100% whole wheat version better. This sourdough biscuit recipe came from a 1970's magazine clipping. Not sure why they "diluted" their WW flour like that.

It was (and still is) a common practice. I've been using whole wheat
flour for probably close to 50 years, started with unbleached white with
some whole wheat, then totally switched over. I've seen too many to
count recipies from the late 60s on, that call for a bit of whole wheat
flour, the rest white and then call it whole wheat.

Back in the day when i made pizza more regularly, i would do a

50/50 BC> blend to get the amount of gluten i needed for the dough to
stretch BC> without BC> breaking. Even then, i had to stretch the dough
very carefully. WW BC> pastry flour would probably have worked better.

No, pastry flour has no gluten. You need to add maybe a tablespoon or so
of gluten per cup of flour for the extra "stretch". Over the years tho,
I've decreased the the amount of extra gluten added for most things and
just made sure yeast doughs got a good kneading (helps develop the
gluten structure).

---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly{at}earthlink{dot}net FIDO 1:396/45.28


... Some are so educated they can bore you on almost any subject

--- PPoint 3.01
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Hi Ben,

years of bronchitis and pneumonia). Doing better now so maybe I'll make
a pizza some time next week. Maybe once we get our sourdough revived (froze it before travel), I'll do a sourdough crust--have done so before with whole wheat flour and it is good.

Welcome back from Alaska. Great that you are doing better. I did not know about freezing starter to put it on pause. I will experiment
with that.

We've frozen/successfully thawed sourdough I don't know how many times.
It's a good way to store a back up in case something happens to your
working starter or, in our case, a move.

While reading an outdoors book, i read a reference to old Forest
Service Lookout cookbooks. Below is a link to online versions. They mention
that a regular diet of quick bread (such as biscuits, pancakes, etc.)
is not wholesome, and that sourdough is healthier.

<https://foresthistory.org/research-explore/us-forest-service-history/ u-s-forest-service-publications/general-publications/post-6930/>

I've seen (don't remember if Steve bought me a copy) one of the books,
maybe an anniversary edition? We're away from home now so I can't walk
over to the shelves to check. (G)

---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly{at}earthlink{dot}net FIDO 1:396/45.28


... Computers run on smoke. They stop when it leaks out.

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Re: Sourdough Whole-Wheat Biscuits
By: Ruth Haffly to Ben Collver on Thu Jun 05 2025 12:35:44

Somehow a bunch of Fido from 2023 came thru today. I'm answering the "to me" ones, don't recall if I did then or not (too much has happened in
the last couple of years for me to remember).

Whoo you went on a spree! Thanks for the Ruth Haffly Digest. :)
--- SBBSecho 3.27-Linux
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Hi Ben,

Re: Sourdough Whole-Wheat Biscuits
By: Ruth Haffly to Ben Collver on Thu Jun 05 2025 12:35:44

Somehow a bunch of Fido from 2023 came thru today. I'm answering the "to me" ones, don't recall if I did then or not (too much has happened in
the last couple of years for me to remember).

Whoo you went on a spree! Thanks for the Ruth Haffly Digest. :)

Enjoy it. We were going to start the last leg of our trip (Utah to NC)
the next day and doing Fido would be erratic for the next week or so.
Started out Friday am, stopped at a rest stop in south eastern UT. While
there, I tripped over a curb, fell hard on my left arm/knee. 40 minute
trip back to nearest Emergency Room, 4 hours later back on the road with
my knee taped up and a splint on my left arm. X-ray of that was unclear
if there was a hairline fracture or not so I see my ortho dr on Tuesday
for new x-rays. Meanwhile I'm typing one handed. Been eating out of what
we have on hand but Steve brought home 2 very generous portions of baked
ziti from the America Legion meeting supper last night. Cook was a
member who does great Italian cooking so looking forward to that
tonight.

---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly{at}earthlink{dot}net FIDO 1:396/45.28


... Are you sure you really want to know that?

--- PPoint 3.01
* Origin: Sew! That's My Point (1:396/45.28)

Re: Sourdough Whole-Wheat Biscuits
By: Ruth Haffly to Ben Collver on Fri Jun 13 2025 15:06:10

for new x-rays. Meanwhile I'm typing one handed. Been eating out of what
we have on hand but Steve brought home 2 very generous portions of baked ziti from the America Legion meeting supper last night. Cook was a
member who does great Italian cooking so looking forward to that
tonight.

Ouch! I wish you a quick recovery.

I got back from hiking, camping, and visiting a friend in Takilma.
Sunday night we went to a fundraiser for the Spanish class trip to
Mexico. The teacher is from Nepal. She and her daughters prepared
a Nepali dinner that included freshly made naan, a pea and potato
curry, a red lentil dal, brown rice, mixed greens in a savory broth,
a spicy hot mint/coriander sauce and a milder red sauce. I love
mint sauce so i took plenty of that. We also got some strawberry
cake made with home grown strawberries. Indian food is my favorite
cuisine and i thought it was kind of magical to eat Nepali food out
in the boonies.
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
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Hi Ben,

for new x-rays. Meanwhile I'm typing one handed. Been eating out of what
we have on hand but Steve brought home 2 very generous portions of baked ziti from the America Legion meeting supper last night. Cook was a
member who does great Italian cooking so looking forward to that
tonight.

Ouch! I wish you a quick recovery.

Thanks, I saw my ortho doctor on Tuesday. New x-rays showed no breaks
but he wanted the stitches kept in at least a week longer. Took the
splint off and covered it with gauze pads, after putting a menuca honey
and copper mix on both that and the knee. Both look ugly now; I'll have
some new scars but it could have been so much worse.

I got back from hiking, camping, and visiting a friend in Takilma.
Sunday night we went to a fundraiser for the Spanish class trip to
Mexico. The teacher is from Nepal. She and her daughters prepared
a Nepali dinner that included freshly made naan, a pea and potato
curry, a red lentil dal, brown rice, mixed greens in a savory broth,
a spicy hot mint/coriander sauce and a milder red sauce. I love
mint sauce so i took plenty of that. We also got some strawberry
cake made with home grown strawberries. Indian food is my favorite cuisine and i thought it was kind of magical to eat Nepali food out
in the boonies.

That sounds good. We did some boondocking in a national forest near the
Grand Canyon and again at a remote trailhead in southeastern Utah on
this past trip. Also spent a night at another trailhead near Capital
Reef National Park, also in southern Utah. Fired up the generator just
long enough to heat supper but it was cool enough that we didn't need
the air conditioning. Camp food was a mix of brought from home (Moroccan chicken for one), left overs from meals out and a lot of quick/easy
breakfasts & lunches. Best meal out was at a Bohemian Brewery in Utah; I
had red cabbage, spaezle and chicken paprikash. Steve was supposed to
order a Black Forest cake piece to take home but ordered a German
chocolate cake piece instead. I don't like coconut and most nuts so let
him have all of it but he said that he owes me a big slice of Black
Forest cake. (G)

---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly{at}earthlink{dot}net FIDO 1:396/45.28


... If you think you are confused now, wait until I explain it!

--- PPoint 3.01
* Origin: Sew! That's My Point (1:396/45.28)

Re: Sourdough Whole-Wheat Biscuits
By: Ruth Haffly to Ben Collver on Thu Jun 19 2025 12:13:05

Hi Ruth,

Thanks, I saw my ortho doctor on Tuesday. New x-rays showed no breaks
Both look ugly now; I'll have
some new scars but it could have been so much worse.

Hooray for no breaks. Now to make up some yarns about the scars. It
happened during a fight over the last slice of cake. You should see the
scars on the OTHER guy!

That sounds good. We did some boondocking in a national forest near the Grand Canyon and again at a remote trailhead in southeastern Utah on
this past trip. Also spent a night at another trailhead near Capital
Reef National Park, also in southern Utah.

Nice! I have passed through Utah a couple of times and thought parts of it were beautiful.

he said that he owes me a big slice of Black Forest cake. (G)

I was not aware of the distinction. We have a German restaurant here
called Black Forest, so i guess that could be extra confusing. The
German Chocolate cake *IS* Black Forest cake.
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
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Hi Ben,

Thanks, I saw my ortho doctor on Tuesday. New x-rays showed no breaks
Both look ugly now; I'll have
some new scars but it could have been so much worse.

Hooray for no breaks. Now to make up some yarns about the scars. It happened during a fight over the last slice of cake. You should see
the scars on the OTHER guy!

That might work for the elbow but not the knee. I'm not a kick boxer.
(G)

That sounds good. We did some boondocking in a national forest near the Grand Canyon and again at a remote trailhead in southeastern Utah on
this past trip. Also spent a night at another trailhead near Capital
Reef National Park, also in southern Utah.

Nice! I have passed through Utah a couple of times and thought parts
of it were beautiful.

We've been to just about all of them, were on our way to Canyonlands but
after my fall, decided to head directly home. Still took us 5 days to
get home. Canyonlands, Dead Horse and the Grand Tetons will be another
trip, which, with daughters and grandkids out west, is a given.

he said that he owes me a big slice of Black Forest cake. (G)

I was not aware of the distinction. We have a German restaurant here called Black Forest, so i guess that could be extra confusing. The
German Chocolate cake *IS* Black Forest cake.

Have you eaten there? I know you do a lot (are you totally) of
vegetarian, does this place have options like cheese schnitzel?

German chocolate cake is a medium brown in color with a
coconut/pecan filling and frosting. Black Forest cake is much darker,
has cherrys, whipped cream and chocolate shavings. True BF cake is also
made with kirschewasser (cherry brandy). I've got a recipe around
somewhere, from a German pastor's wife who taught our church women's
group in Frankfurt how to make it.


---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly{at}earthlink{dot}net FIDO 1:396/45.28


... Some are so educated they can bore you on almost any subject

--- PPoint 3.01
* Origin: Sew! That's My Point (1:396/45.28)

Re: Sourdough Whole-Wheat Biscuits
By: Ruth Haffly to Ben Collver on Sat Jun 21 2025 13:41:49

Have you eaten there? I know you do a lot (are you totally) of
vegetarian, does this place have options like cheese schnitzel?

I haven't eaten there for decades. I took a quick peek at their online
menu and it doesn't have a single vegetarian main dish. :>

German chocolate cake is a medium brown in color with a
coconut/pecan filling and frosting. Black Forest cake is much darker,
has cherrys, whipped cream and chocolate shavings. True BF cake is also made with kirschewasser (cherry brandy).

My version of impulse control is supply side. I never buy dessert and
rarely cook it. But if someone offers it to me, then it's fair game!
I'd eat either cake, if offered to me. I'd probably prefer the GCC
over the BFC.

A few days ago i made a huge batch of veggie burgers from scratch and
French fries in the nuker & frying pan. I also made ketchup out of
tomato paste, cider vinegar, and coconut sugar. Today i got a batch
of lentil soup started in the crockpot. Quite satisfactory but nothing
to brag about.

Random question: Have you ever used a computer with punched tape?
--- SBBSecho 3.28-Linux
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Hi Ben,

Have you eaten there? I know you do a lot (are you totally) of
vegetarian, does this place have options like cheese schnitzel?

I haven't eaten there for decades. I took a quick peek at their
online menu and it doesn't have a single vegetarian main dish. :>

Nice to know it has been around for so long. It's one that we would
enjoy but not take you to.

German chocolate cake is a medium brown in color with a
coconut/pecan filling and frosting. Black Forest cake is much darker,
has cherrys, whipped cream and chocolate shavings. True BF cake is also made with kirschewasser (cherry brandy).

My version of impulse control is supply side. I never buy dessert and rarely cook it. But if someone offers it to me, then it's fair game!
I'd eat either cake, if offered to me. I'd probably prefer the GCC
over the BFC.

We usually don't buy it when eating out but the BF cake and apple
strudel both looked appealing. I went to use the lady's room, leaving
Steve to order one or the other to go. When I got back, he showed me
the box, opened it slightly and then closed it so I only got a couple of second's look at it. Got back home (to daughter's) and were putting
leftovers in the camper fridge when he opened the box again & I realised
he'd ordered the wrong thing.

As for dessert at home, it's usually fruit or a cookie but sometimes
I'll get ambitious and make a pie or cobbler. Those are usually made for
pot lucks tho, and if we have left overs, we'll take them home and
finish. Ice cream is a good dessert, especially this time of year and we
will visit a small shop where the owner makes everything, even his
flavorings, from scratch in small amounts.

A few days ago i made a huge batch of veggie burgers from scratch and French fries in the nuker & frying pan. I also made ketchup out of
tomato paste, cider vinegar, and coconut sugar. Today i got a batch
of lentil soup started in the crockpot. Quite satisfactory but
nothing to brag about.

As long as it filled you and tasted good, it served the purpose. We're
in the first days of a major hot spell so I'm thinking of what can go on
the grill or in the microwave and goes with a tossed salad.

Random question: Have you ever used a computer with punched tape?

No, but back in the mid 70s I used key punch cards to enter survey data
into a computer. My Population Problems class (sociology) had done a
survery of about 1/4 of the campus population and we co-olated the data
that way. I used some of the data for a paper for my Social Psychology (psychology) class. (I was a sociology major, psychology and art
minors.)

---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly{at}earthlink{dot}net FIDO 1:396/45.28


... Myth #1: The computer only does what you tell it to do.

--- PPoint 3.01
* Origin: Sew! That's My Point (1:396/45.28)

Re: Sourdough Whole-Wheat Biscuits
By: Ruth Haffly to Ben Collver on Sun Jun 22 2025 18:24:27

As for dessert at home, it's usually fruit or a cookie but sometimes
I'll get ambitious and make a pie or cobbler. Those are usually made for pot lucks tho, and if we have left overs, we'll take them home and
finish.

Potlucks can be weird. I went to one where someone made a classic pear
crisp using home grown pears, and they made it with love. Not one other
person took any besides me and the baker. I suppose the others considered
it unattractive because it was not what they would normally eat. I asked
the baker if i could finish it off, and she told me i was welcome to have
as much as i wanted. We didn't remain single for long, and eventually
ended up dating each other. :>

No, but back in the mid 70s I used key punch cards to enter survey data into a computer. My Population Problems class (sociology) had done a survery of about 1/4 of the campus population and we co-olated the data that way. I used some of the data for a paper for my Social Psychology (psychology) class. (I was a sociology major, psychology and art
minors.)

Interesting that you were a sociology major, and that you got to experience using punch cards. I read that paper tape and punch cards were in use way
past their "expiration date" because the equipment was so inexpensive.

I recently went down a rabbithole on a rainy day. A friend sent me a video
of someone creating art on an oldschool mechanical typewriter. I found
books about typewriter art on archive.org, one of which was published in
1936. I sent it to another friend and called it 1936 ASCII art. This
friend reminded me that ASCII didn't exist in 1936. I found that what DID exist in 1936 was ITS-2, a 5-bit encoding that was often punched on 5-hole paper tape. I wrote a script to convert between ASCII and ITS-2, and
another script to convert between ITS-2 and a plaintext representation to simulate paper tape.

I searched and found homebrew kits to use paper tape, but they were all surprisingly complex and expensive. If i were using paper as a computer storage medium, i'd probably use QR codes. I found manuals for units
in the late 60's that could read and "write" punched tape. One thing
that surprised me was that none of the manuals mentioned RS-232. IIRC,
they talked about logic levels and oscilloscopes. It made me wonder
what it was really like to connect the paper tape "drive" to a computer.

What inspired you to pursue a sociology major? The first thing that
popped into my mind was "I wonder what the difference is between
sociology and anthropology?" A cynical answer could be that sociology
is about us and anthropology is about them.
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Hi Ben,

As for dessert at home, it's usually fruit or a cookie but sometimes
I'll get ambitious and make a pie or cobbler. Those are usually made for pot lucks tho, and if we have left overs, we'll take them home and
finish.

Potlucks can be weird. I went to one where someone made a classic
pear crisp using home grown pears, and they made it with love. Not

Sounds yummy, makes you wonder why it was ignored.

one other person took any besides me and the baker. I suppose the
others considered it unattractive because it was not what they would normally eat. I asked the baker if i could finish it off, and she
told me i was welcome to have as much as i wanted. We didn't remain single for long, and eventually
ended up dating each other. :>

Interesting way to meet. I don't know if you were on here when Nancy
Backus was but she was allergic to apples. She hosted a picnic (sadly no
longer a Fido event) about 8 years ago; part of it included service at
her church followed by a pot luck lunch. I made a waldorf salad subbing
out pears for apples, thought I'd be bringing some back. When I went to
get the dish, it was empty--guess I ought to do that again. I'm glad
Nancy got some of it, (G)

No, but back in the mid 70s I used key punch cards to enter survey

data RH> into a computer. My Population Problems class (sociology) had
done a RH> survery of about 1/4 of the campus population and we
co-olated the data RH> that way. I used some of the data for a paper for
my Social Psychology RH> (psychology) class. (I was a sociology major, psychology and art RH> minors.)

Interesting that you were a sociology major, and that you got to experience using punch cards. I read that paper tape and punch cards
were in use way past their "expiration date" because the equipment was
so inexpensive.

It was the fastest way to quickly get the data in useable form as the
end of the semester was coming up. There were about 8 of us, each with
about 25-30 copies of the survey.

I recently went down a rabbithole on a rainy day. A friend sent me a video of someone creating art on an oldschool mechanical typewriter.
I found books about typewriter art on archive.org, one of which was published in 1936. I sent it to another friend and called it 1936
ASCII art. This
friend reminded me that ASCII didn't exist in 1936. I found that what
DID exist in 1936 was ITS-2, a 5-bit encoding that was often punched
on 5-hole paper tape. I wrote a script to convert between ASCII and ITS-2, and
another script to convert between ITS-2 and a plaintext representation
to simulate paper tape.

That must have been an interesting rabbit hole for you. The typewriter
art must have been fun; I remember seeing some of it decades ago.

What inspired you to pursue a sociology major? The first thing that popped into my mind was "I wonder what the difference is between
sociology and anthropology?" A cynical answer could be that sociology
is about us and anthropology is about them.

As part of the general ed requirements I took an introductory course
taught by J.Whitney Shea, brother of George Beverly Shea, and found it fascinating. It inter relates with anthropology; it would have been
interesting to do a major combining the 2 but anthropology was not
offered at the (small) college I went to. I originally had just an art
minor but after taking enough psychology classes, I realised I was close
to a minor in it so declared and finished it.


---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly{at}earthlink{dot}net FIDO 1:396/45.28


... Our necessities are few but our wants are endless...

--- PPoint 3.01
* Origin: Sew! That's My Point (1:396/45.28)

Re: Sourdough Whole-Wheat Biscuits
By: Ruth Haffly to Ben Collver on Tue Jun 24 2025 15:20:53

Hi Ruth,

I made a waldorf salad subbing
out pears for apples, thought I'd be bringing some back. When I went to
get the dish, it was empty--guess I ought to do that again. I'm glad
Nancy got some of it, (G)

I love reading your substitution success stories to accomodate the dietary restrictions of others.

As part of the general ed requirements I took an introductory course
taught by J.Whitney Shea, brother of George Beverly Shea, and found it fascinating.

It sounds like you had an excellent teacher. What were some of the things
you found fascinating about the subject?
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