My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
what happens, it breaks everything and I have to manage the
indentations. I can't just comment/uncomment a block of code as I do
with other programming languages.
- It's sold as an easy programming language. Which is true for
discovering it. And once I'm using it in the real life, I discover the
hard reality. A lot of things that should just work don't because it's
an exception.
- The version management is awful. There are a lot of ways to be able to
use different packages than the ones used by the system.
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
On 14/12/2025 23:29, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
''' and ''' are your friend
And maybe stop using edlin etc. and invest in a modern editor that knows
the language and so helps you by making life easier.
[Python is] the modern BASIC. Great for hacking stuff up, bur bare
metal it aint.
On 14/12/2025 23:29, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
''' and ''' are your friend
And maybe stop using edlin etc. and invest in a modern editor that knows
the language and so helps you by making life easier.
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
''' and ''' are your friend
On Tue, 16 Dec 2025 21:45:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
''' and ''' are your friend
Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...
Yeah, well. I've been burned more than once by someone who added
/* stupid comment */
someplace west of the 80th column in the code.
On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
''' and ''' are your friend
Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
''' and ''' are your friend
Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...
Then """ and """ are your better friends.
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:''' and ''' are your friend
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
what happens, it breaks everything and I have to manage the
indentations. I can't just comment/uncomment a block of code as I do >>>> with other programming languages.
Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...
Then """ and """ are your better friends.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which lang - is
'comments'.
I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free. There are a couple of .c files with comments that I reused from another project that
have somebody's comments.
I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code that I
could tweak so the final executable did one thing well. We had a couple of nightmares that originally did one thing well but for the next project the programmer said 'That's close to what I need. A few configuration values
here and there and it will work.' The next time around it got some more configuration values to do something else. I have a Swiss Army knife I found; it's in the junk drawer.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 16:17:30 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 12:57:57 +0000, mm0fmf wrote:
On 14 Dec 2025 11:56:42 GMT, St‚phane CARPENTIER wrote:
My issues with python are:
- It's using indentations, so when I comment a block of code to see
''' and ''' are your friend
Unless the block has triply-quoted strings inside it ...
Then """ and """ are your better friends.
What if you have both present?
Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
and implications of almost every step.
According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>:
Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
and implications of almost every step.
That's fine as long as it's done with adequate discipline
i += 2; /* add one more bloofus to i */
I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to make >them go away.
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 23:02:24 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Oh, I usually write "i=i+2". It's a bit more clear and becomes the
same code anyway. += is more a 'C' thing.
And Python, C#, JavaScript, C++, ...
https://peps.python.org/pep-0008/
"assignment (+=, -= etc.), comparisons (==, <, >, !=, <=, >=, in, not in,
is, is not), Booleans (and, or, not)."
There's some benighted language that does not have += etc. Maybe R. I
looked at that briefly before deciding anything I could do in R I could do
in Python without learning new weirdness.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:#define Bollocks
I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to make
them go away.
Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.
Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?
Greetings
Marc
#define Bollocks
#ifdef BOLLOCKS
..
...
....
..
.
#endif
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
#define Bollocks
#ifdef BOLLOCKS
..
...
....
..
.
#endif
Has the disadvantage of being language specific.
Greetings
Marc
On 12/17/25 14:17, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:
˙˙˙ Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which lang - is >>> ˙˙˙ 'comments'.
I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free. There
are a
couple of .c files with comments that I reused from another project that
have somebody's comments.
I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code that I
could tweak so the final executable did one thing well. We had a
couple of
nightmares that originally did one thing well but for the next project
the
programmer said 'That's close to what I need. A few configuration values
here and there and it will work.'˙ The next time around it got some more
configuration values to do something else.˙ I have a Swiss Army knife I
found; it's in the junk drawer.
˙ Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
˙ old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
˙ anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
˙ and implications of almost every step.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to
make them go away.
Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.
Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?
Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I mark
the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of muscle
memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to me is how >much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one way to skin a
cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new foo.txt to get two >vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side by side panes but I
never do.
I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:
I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."
Regrettably, I?ve encountered plenty of comments that don?t actually
reflect the code (for a variety of reasons).
If the code is wrong and the comment is right then that?s great, you
have a nice hint about how to fix the code, assuming you realize there?s
a problem at all.
However if the code is right but the comment is wrong then the comment
is worse than nothing. The code would be improved by removing it
(although almost certainly improved even more by correcting it).
I?ve also encountered quite a few comments written by people who had
been instructed to add comments to under-commented code, but didn?t
really understand what they were looking at. The result generally
obscures more than it illuminates.
On 12/17/25 20:10, c186282 wrote:
On 12/17/25 14:17, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:
˙˙˙ Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which lang
- is
˙˙˙ 'comments'.
I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free. There
are a
couple of .c files with comments that I reused from another project that >>> have somebody's comments.
I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code that I
could tweak so the final executable did one thing well. We had a
couple of
nightmares that originally did one thing well but for the next
project the
programmer said 'That's close to what I need. A few configuration values >>> here and there and it will work.'˙ The next time around it got some more >>> configuration values to do something else.˙ I have a Swiss Army knife I
found; it's in the junk drawer.
˙˙ Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
˙˙ old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
˙˙ anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
˙˙ and implications of almost every step.
I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old code,
I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:
I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old
code, I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a
program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."
Regrettably, I?ve encountered plenty of comments that don?t actually
reflect the code (for a variety of reasons).
If the code is wrong and the comment is right then that?s great, you
have a nice hint about how to fix the code, assuming you realize there?s
a problem at all.
However if the code is right but the comment is wrong then the comment
is worse than nothing. The code would be improved by removing it
(although almost certainly improved even more by correcting it).
I?ve also encountered quite a few comments written by people who had
been instructed to add comments to under-commented code, but didn?t
really understand what they were looking at. The result generally
obscures more than it illuminates.
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 15:43:49 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// to >>>>> make them go away.
Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.
Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them?
Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I mark
the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of muscle
memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to me is how >>> much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one way to skin a >>> cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new foo.txt to get
two vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side by side panes but
I never do.
:sp[lit]
:vs[plit]
also work. I generally divide the vim screen into four 100 column wide
panes.
I'd screw that up. I use i3/sway and I have a moment of hesitation of
whether Meta-h or Meta-v is going to split the way I want. 'I want two
panes stacked vertically so that's 'h'. Or is it 'v'?'
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 04:25:35 -0500, c186282 wrote:
But isn't && and || more better ? If the
meaning is more obscure then it MUST be better !
Perfectly obvious. BTW any language that can't do bit operations should be drowned at birth.
'R' ??? You must have some very special needs !
https://www.anaconda.com/blog/python-vs-r-data-science-ai-workflows
The article is biased but R at one time was more popular for machine learning. Python caught up rapidly. One of the problems with R is a sort
of quirky syntax compared to most languages. With Python you can use TensorFlow and even if you don't know much about ML it looks like Python.
Both are interpreted so aren't the speediest languages. R originally had
an edge but as Python became more popular for ML packages like numpy were optimized.
Note: I draw a distinction between ML and LLMs. All the hype is for LLMs
and I'm not sure the balloon won't burst. ML is the poor relation but I
think it has more real value to offer in many domains.
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 00:56:11 -0500, c186282 wrote:
On 12/18/25 13:38, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 15:43:49 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2025 08:03:47 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I keep it simple and use the first column, s/^/#/ in vim. s/^#// >>>>>>> to make them go away.
Ctrl-V, down, I, '# ', Escape.
Those block commands are great! How have I ever lived without them? >>>>>
Learned something new. I seldom, if ever, use the visual mode so I
mark the end of the block and use the :.,'as/^/#/ form. Years of
muscle memory. I have a book on Vim somewhere. What it pointed out to >>>>> me is how much functionality Vim has that I don't use. I learned one >>>>> way to skin a cat long ago and stuck with it. For example I use :new >>>>> foo.txt to get two vertically stacked panes. I know you can do side >>>>> by side panes but I never do.
:sp[lit]
:vs[plit]
also work. I generally divide the vim screen into four 100 column
wide panes.
I'd screw that up. I use i3/sway and I have a moment of hesitation of
whether Meta-h or Meta-v is going to split the way I want. 'I want two
panes stacked vertically so that's 'h'. Or is it 'v'?'
NANO !!! :-)
Whatever. I've used it in a pinch but it's definitely my favorite.
On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 18:44:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[Python is] the modern BASIC. Great for hacking stuff up, bur bare
metal it aint.
Unlike BASIC, Python?s facilities for doing low-level stuff are a bit
more advanced than PEEK and POKE. ;)
On Fri, 19 Dec 2025 03:30:56 -0500, c186282 wrote:
The ed in Midnight Commander is a bit better, AND you can use it
easily over SSH.
Back in the days of DJGPP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJGPP
I ported MC back to Windows, from whence it came as a test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Commander
The biggest problems were any network features. I should install it on one
of the machines for old times sake.
On 12/17/25 20:10, c186282 wrote:
On 12/17/25 14:17, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 03:11:09 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Probably 50% of the text in my code - doesn't matter which
lang - is 'comments'.
I looked at some of my code and it's pretty much comment free.
There are a couple of .c files with comments that I reused from
another project that have somebody's comments.
I had a tendency to clone similar projects and inherit some code
that I could tweak so the final executable did one thing well.
We had a couple of nightmares that originally did one thing well
but for the next project the programmer said 'That's close to
what I need. A few configuration values here and there and it
will work.' The next time around it got some more configuration
values to do something else. I have a Swiss Army knife I found;
it's in the junk drawer.>>
˙˙ Well ... I'll better understand, and be able to mod, my
˙˙ old programs better than you. I find 'excessive' commenting
˙˙ anything BUT 'excessive'. I *enjoy* writing out the meaning
˙˙ and implications of almost every step.
I comment *A LOT*. When I had to go back and revisit some very old code,
I wished I had commented more. I've almost never looked at a program and said "I wish it had fewer comments."
On Sat, 20 Dec 2025 04:01:01 -0500, c186282 wrote:
I load MC on EVERYTHING by default - and it COMES IN USEFUL more than
enough to be worth it.
I'll take your word for it. I haven't used in a couple of decades and only vaguely remember how it works. It's safe to say I'm not feeling a big hole
in my life.
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