• Re: Anonymous email users

    From Grant Edwards@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Jun 25 04:12:16 2024
    On 2024-06-24, Barry Scott via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:
    On 23 Jun 2024, at 06:58, Sebastian Wells via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:

    The spammers won the spam wars, so even if you have someone's real
    e-mail address, that's no guarantee that you can contact them. [...]

    My email address is well known and yes I get spam emails.

    I've been puzzled by this for a long time. Many people talk about how
    they get so much spam e-mail that there's little chance they'll notice
    if I send them an e-mail.

    I've been using the same e-mail address for about 20 years. I've use
    that e-mail address with probably close to 100 retailers, charities, open-source projects, media sites, and various other organizations.

    I get at most a few spam emails per week [I just checked my spam
    folder: 8 in the past 30 days]. And Gmail is very, very close to 100%
    accurate at filtering them out. I can't remember the last time I
    actually got a spam message in my inbox.

    A few years ago the spam count was greater than a 1,000 a month.

    I'm baffled. Is Gmail silently rejecting that much junk before it
    even gets to the filter that puts stuff into my "spam" folder?

    --
    Grant



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  • From Chris Angelico@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Jun 25 11:49:16 2024
    On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 at 11:41, Grant Edwards via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:
    I've been using the same e-mail address for about 20 years. I've use
    that e-mail address with probably close to 100 retailers, charities, open-source projects, media sites, and various other organizations.

    Mostly the same, although in my case, I've had multiple email
    addresses for different purposes (and still kept all of them for
    decades).

    I get at most a few spam emails per week [I just checked my spam
    folder: 8 in the past 30 days]. And Gmail is very, very close to 100% accurate at filtering them out. I can't remember the last time I
    actually got a spam message in my inbox.

    A few years ago the spam count was greater than a 1,000 a month.

    I'm baffled. Is Gmail silently rejecting that much junk before it
    even gets to the filter that puts stuff into my "spam" folder?


    It really depends on how you count. On my mail server (can't get stats
    for Gmail), I have a number of anti-spam and anti-abuse rules that
    apply prior to the Bayesian filtering (for example, protocol
    violations), and any spam that gets blocked by those rules isn't shown
    in my stats. And then I have a further set of rules that nuke some of
    the most blatant spam, and finally the regular trainable filter. I
    should probably keep better stats on the stuff I don't keep, but at
    the moment, all I actually track is the ones that the filter sees -
    which is roughly 25-50 a day.

    So.... yeah, Gmail is probably rejecting that much junk, but most of
    it for protocol violations.

    ChrisA

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  • From avi.e.gross@gmail.com@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Jun 25 14:13:16 2024
    This discussion has wandered far from my original mention that I found it
    hard to reply to people using an invalid email address. I see no real connection to python except insofar as at least one spam-filter mentioned is written in python!

    Just to add an observation, the people writing here have obviously had many different experiences with their email addresses and whether yours is
    hijacked in some way, and made less useful, can even just become down to
    random luck.

    But SPAM filters can also be manipulated and cause you to lose mail. I think some people have been reporting email from a source they do not favor, such
    as for political reasons, that then ends up being junked for people who
    would welcome the messages. And, I can well imagine how something like a
    post about python programs can start being filtered out because some key
    words commonly use end up being used a lot in some kind of SPAM and the
    filter "learns" to filter those out. Imagine of "python" appeared in lots of actual SPAM messages as the war moved on, such as in the metadata designed
    to make it look legit.

    Email addresses can go bad for many reasons. My wife had a nice simple
    address like jane.smith@gmail.com that was messed up probably by
    well-meaning people when another Jane Smith had an email address like smith.jane or janesmith123 and they or others typed in the more
    straightforward ones. It seems we ended up getting odd email from many continents such as e-tickets for airplanes, initial estimates or bills from vendors for products in places we have never been for services rendered in
    say Tennessee or South Africa (well, I've been in Tennessee, but) and subscriptions to internet magazines or groups that sent lots of messages, or conversations between lots of people (all To: or Cc:) that included her
    email address wrongly and even when she replied to ask to be taken off, the conversations continued for months as many kept hitting reply-all, ...)

    And, obviously, with so many people using the address wrongly, SPAM
    followed.

    Of course, choosing a strange name designed not to be typed by accident, has it's own disadvantages.

    But for those who want me to CALL their unspecified phone number and tell
    them the subject line and then maybe you will look for my message, FUGGEDABOUTIT! I have a cousin who does a trick with her phone service
    where she never answers and I have to run some gauntlet to identify myself
    and then wait for a call back. After a few times, I solved the problem and simply never call her.

    Admittedly, making it hard for an email address to be abused in a forum like this is understandable. Making it very hard to reach you legitimately when
    the message is that your house is burning or just that your appointment is canceled, may not work as well as you think.

    And, FYI, I check my junkmail regularly and I have a fairly high rate of finding things, including posts on forums like this one, that are NOT in my opinion junk as I ordered them and they are on topic and not easily visible
    as having committed some kind of sin. And as I use many email services, I
    still find a high rate of false negatives everywhere.

    It would not surprise me if a phrase like "not SPAM" gets this message
    dumped into /dev/null


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Python-list <python-list-bounces+avi.e.gross=gmail.com@python.org> On Behalf Of Chris Angelico via Python-list
    Sent: Monday, June 24, 2024 9:49 PM
    To: python-list@python.org
    Subject: Re: Anonymous email users

    On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 at 11:41, Grant Edwards via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:
    I've been using the same e-mail address for about 20 years. I've use
    that e-mail address with probably close to 100 retailers, charities, open-source projects, media sites, and various other organizations.

    Mostly the same, although in my case, I've had multiple email
    addresses for different purposes (and still kept all of them for
    decades).

    I get at most a few spam emails per week [I just checked my spam
    folder: 8 in the past 30 days]. And Gmail is very, very close to 100% accurate at filtering them out. I can't remember the last time I
    actually got a spam message in my inbox.

    A few years ago the spam count was greater than a 1,000 a month.

    I'm baffled. Is Gmail silently rejecting that much junk before it
    even gets to the filter that puts stuff into my "spam" folder?


    It really depends on how you count. On my mail server (can't get stats
    for Gmail), I have a number of anti-spam and anti-abuse rules that
    apply prior to the Bayesian filtering (for example, protocol
    violations), and any spam that gets blocked by those rules isn't shown
    in my stats. And then I have a further set of rules that nuke some of
    the most blatant spam, and finally the regular trainable filter. I
    should probably keep better stats on the stuff I don't keep, but at
    the moment, all I actually track is the ones that the filter sees -
    which is roughly 25-50 a day.

    So.... yeah, Gmail is probably rejecting that much junk, but most of
    it for protocol violations.

    ChrisA
    --
    https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


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  • From Anton Shepelev@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Jun 25 19:09:22 2024
    Sebastian Wells:

    The spammers won the spam wars, so even if you have
    someone's real e-mail address, that's no guarantee that
    you can contact them.

    No so with me. My e-mail address here is munged, but in a
    very obvious way, and no, my mailbox is not overwhelmed with
    spam.

    I make a habit of reporting spam via:

    1. https://www.spamcop.net/anonsignup.shtml
    2. https://submit.spamhaus.org/submit/

    They maintain blacklists of e-mail providers or notify them
    of spam e-mails. It helps.

    --
    () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

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  • From Anton Shepelev@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Jun 25 19:59:54 2024
    Chris Angelico to dn:

    Python mailing-lists are covered by the Code of Conduct
    and monitored by ListAdmins. Thus, there are controls
    which limit the impact which advertisers and others with
    non-pythonic aims might otherwise exert!

    So long as there's a newsgroup gateway, those controls are
    toothless.

    The gateway operator can have the usual anti-spam software
    installed, and of course there is Gmane:

    <https://gmane.io/>

    which actually subscribes users to mailing lists (on their
    behalf). Gmane's NNTP server is: news.gmane.io .

    --
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    /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments

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  • From Chris Angelico@3:633/280.2 to All on Wed Jun 26 04:35:31 2024
    On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 at 03:40, Anton Shepelev via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:

    Chris Angelico to dn:

    Python mailing-lists are covered by the Code of Conduct
    and monitored by ListAdmins. Thus, there are controls
    which limit the impact which advertisers and others with
    non-pythonic aims might otherwise exert!

    So long as there's a newsgroup gateway, those controls are
    toothless.

    The gateway operator can have the usual anti-spam software
    installed

    Anti-spam is not the same as CoC and admins, though. Without putting
    an actual moderation barrier in there, it's still toothless.

    (Yes, there are a scant few posters who've been blocked from the
    gateway, but it's rare.)

    ChrisA

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