On 11/18/2025 5:47 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
On 18/11/2025 03:10, dart200 wrote:
On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
On 2025-11-18, dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote:
On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote:
On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote:
The halting problem is requiring deciders to
compute information that is not contained in
their input.
ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem:
one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string
describing the machine
That the halting problem limits computation
is like this very extreme example:
Predict who the next president of the United States
will be entirely on the basis of û2 (square root of 2).
That cannot be derived from the input.
bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem:
one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to
compute
whether the machine described halts
But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one
unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings.
When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than
the string.
yes i meant generally
you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute
whether a an machine description halts or not
What does that mean though?
It sounds like you're asking for a /single/ TM that given /any/ machine description D, must compute "whether or not D's halting is computable". [And saying no such single TM exists?]
The problem is in the phrase within quotes.ÿ Surely that phrase means "whether or not there exists a TM that computes whether the given D
halts or not"?ÿ If not, what does it mean?
Mike.
typedef int (*ptr)();
int HHH(ptr P);
int HHH1(ptr P);
int DD()
{
int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
if (Halt_Status)
HERE: goto HERE;
return Halt_Status;
}
int main()
{
HHH(DD);
}
Liars try to claim that DD simulated by HHH
(according to the semantics of the C programming
language) reaches its own simulated "return"
statement final halt state.
They are utterly dumbfounded when I ask them
to prove this by a contiguous execution trace
of DD simulated by HHH in C showing how and
why DD reaches its own simulated "return"
statement final halt state.
That is how and why we can know that they are
liars and not merely confused.
--
Copyright 2025 Olcott
My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning" computable.
--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)