• Versionflation

    From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 08:55:35 2026
    I wonder whether there?s a name for this: I know of one or two
    open-source projects which started out with a series of version
    numbers of the form ?1.x?, only to decide to drop the ?1.? at some
    point (before getting to version ?2.x?) and just use the ?x? part as
    the version number.

    I first came across this with Java, where the version numbers got up
    to 1.8, 1.9, 1.10, and then these were renumbered 8, 9, 10, and the
    next one was version 11.

    This also happened with the Asterisk PBX software, where the stable
    releases have even version numbers: these got up to 1.6 and then 1.8,
    then the next one after that was version 10, and we are now up to
    version 22.

    I believe this also happened earlier with Emacs, but the only official information I can find indicates that the first public release was
    numbered 13, from 1985.

    Can anyone shed any further light on this? Do you know of any other
    examples?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Niklas Karlsson@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 11:43:30 2026
    On 2026-01-16, Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    I wonder whether there?s a name for this: I know of one or two
    open-source projects which started out with a series of version
    numbers of the form ?1.x?, only to decide to drop the ?1.? at some
    point (before getting to version ?2.x?) and just use the ?x? part as
    the version number.

    I first came across this with Java, where the version numbers got up
    to 1.8, 1.9, 1.10, and then these were renumbered 8, 9, 10, and the
    next one was version 11.

    This also happened with the Asterisk PBX software, where the stable
    releases have even version numbers: these got up to 1.6 and then 1.8,
    then the next one after that was version 10, and we are now up to
    version 22.

    I believe this also happened earlier with Emacs, but the only official information I can find indicates that the first public release was
    numbered 13, from 1985.

    Can anyone shed any further light on this? Do you know of any other
    examples?

    Not open source at the time, but Solaris 2.6 (July 1997) was followed by Solaris 7 (November 1998).

    Niklas
    --
    Chancellor Angela Merkel arrives at passport control in Poland:
    "Nationality?" asks the immigration officer. "German" she replies. "Occupation?" "No, just here for a few days."
    -- Via John Forster

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Al Kossow@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 08:05:34 2026
    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    Do you know of any other
    examples?


    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over a decade
    until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X



    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From David Wade@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 21:06:02 2026
    On 16/01/2026 16:05, Al Kossow wrote:
    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
    Do you know of any other
    examples?


    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over a decade
    until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X


    Well Honeywell's GCOS3 never got to a Release 5.x. I understand they
    promised certain features in R 5.x so it stuck at 4.x then 4.xy...
    .. then they renamed it to GCOS8

    Dave

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 23:35:49 2026
    On 2026-01-16, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

    In article <10ke97q$1m259$2@dont-email.me>,
    David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
    On 16/01/2026 16:05, Al Kossow wrote:
    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence Dƒ??Oliveiro wrote:
    Do you know of any other
    examples?


    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over a decade
    until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X


    Well Honeywell's GCOS3 never got to a Release 5.x. I understand they >>promised certain features in R 5.x so it stuck at 4.x then 4.xy...
    .. then they renamed it to GCOS8

    Dave

    TeX is famously converging on pi...

    And Metafont towards e :-)

    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 04:37:37 2026
    On 2026-01-16, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:

    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Do you know of any other examples?

    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over
    a decade until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X

    Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP, 7...

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Nuno Silva@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 10:33:22 2026
    On 2026-01-17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2026-01-16, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:

    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Do you know of any other examples?

    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over
    a decade until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X

    Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP, 7...

    3.0, 3.1, 4.0, 4.10, NT5.0, NT5.1, NT6.1 :-)

    (I think Windows 10 is the big outlier?)

    --
    Nuno Silva

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris Ahlstrom@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 06:53:48 2026
    Charlie Gibbs wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

    On 2026-01-16, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:

    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Do you know of any other examples?

    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over
    a decade until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X

    Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP, 7...

    You left out Windows Nein!

    --
    The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
    -- Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org, on X interfaces

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John Levine@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 21:19:05 2026
    According to Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>:
    On 2026-01-17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2026-01-16, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:

    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Do you know of any other examples?

    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over
    a decade until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X

    Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP, 7...

    3.0, 3.1, 4.0, 4.10, NT5.0, NT5.1, NT6.1 :-)

    (I think Windows 10 is the big outlier?)

    I've heard that Microsoft skipped from Windows 8 to Windows 10 because
    there is a lot of badly written code that checks for '9' and assumes
    it's running on Win 95 or 98. From what I've seen of Windows code,
    I can believe it.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Charlie Gibbs@3:633/10 to All on Sun Jan 18 01:35:19 2026
    On 2026-01-17, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

    According to Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>:

    On 2026-01-17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2026-01-16, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:

    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Do you know of any other examples?

    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over
    a decade until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X

    Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP, 7...

    3.0, 3.1, 4.0, 4.10, NT5.0, NT5.1, NT6.1 :-)

    (I think Windows 10 is the big outlier?)

    I've heard that Microsoft skipped from Windows 8 to Windows 10 because
    there is a lot of badly written code that checks for '9' and assumes
    it's running on Win 95 or 98. From what I've seen of Windows code,
    I can believe it.

    That makes sense. On the other hand, since Windows 8 was so badly
    received, perhaps they wanted to skip ahead to a totally different
    number - one that just happened to look like what Apple was doing.
    (I do like the "Windows Nein" quip, though.)

    --
    /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
    \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
    X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
    / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ~pasnec-salmyr@3:633/10 to All on Wed Feb 4 22:36:52 2026
    Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-01-17, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

    According to Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>:

    On 2026-01-17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2026-01-16, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:

    On 1/16/26 12:55 AM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

    Do you know of any other examples?

    The Macintosh operating system, which was stuck at 10 for over
    a decade until they went to yearly releases and dropped the X

    Windows 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP, 7...

    3.0, 3.1, 4.0, 4.10, NT5.0, NT5.1, NT6.1 :-)

    (I think Windows 10 is the big outlier?)

    I've heard that Microsoft skipped from Windows 8 to Windows 10 because
    there is a lot of badly written code that checks for '9' and assumes
    it's running on Win 95 or 98. From what I've seen of Windows code,
    I can believe it.

    That makes sense. On the other hand, since Windows 8 was so badly
    received, perhaps they wanted to skip ahead to a totally different
    number - one that just happened to look like what Apple was doing.
    (I do like the "Windows Nein" quip, though.)


    Hello.

    Windows 8 was such a radical shift for MS at the time. I remember when they first unveiled that Start screen and thinking that they?ve designed this operating system for tablets and touch screens and never thought of the desktop, which was their core market back then (and maybe now? I don?t use Windows outside of work anymore so I don?t keep up with the latest on it.)


    Cheers,

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Feb 5 09:03:20 2026
    On Wed, 04 Feb 2026 22:36:52 +0000, ~pasnec-salmyr wrote:

    Windows 8 was such a radical shift for MS at the time. I remember
    when they first unveiled that Start screen and thinking that they?ve
    designed this operating system for tablets and touch screens and
    never thought of the desktop, which was their core market back then
    ...

    The irony being, it wasn?t all that great as a mobile interface
    either.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John Ames@3:633/10 to All on Thu Feb 5 08:26:20 2026
    On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 09:03:20 -0000 (UTC)
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    Windows 8 was such a radical shift for MS at the time. I remember
    when they first unveiled that Start screen and thinking that they?
    ?ve
    designed this operating system for tablets and touch screens and
    never thought of the desktop, which was their core market back then
    ...

    The irony being, it wasn?t all that great as a mobile interface
    either.

    As with GNOME 3, they made all kinds of bizarre alterations to the
    desktop experience as concessions to what they imagined mobile users
    would want, but what mobile users *actually* wanted was something like
    iOS which was designed from the outset to match the capabilities of the platform. As a result, they ended up with a freakish Fiji mermaid of a
    GUI that made *nobody* happy. And, like GNOME Team, they responded to
    popular outcry by insisting that Actually This Makes Total Sense And
    You Just Don't Get It...only to walk back their most egregious idiocies
    a few years later with the release of Win10, tee hee hee.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Peter Flass@3:633/10 to All on Thu Feb 5 10:43:53 2026
    On 2/5/26 09:26, John Ames wrote:
    On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 09:03:20 -0000 (UTC)
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    Windows 8 was such a radical shift for MS at the time. I remember
    when they first unveiled that Start screen and thinking that they?ve
    designed this operating system for tablets and touch screens and
    never thought of the desktop, which was their core market back then
    ...

    The irony being, it wasn?t all that great as a mobile interface
    either.

    As with GNOME 3, they made all kinds of bizarre alterations to the
    desktop experience as concessions to what they imagined mobile users
    would want, but what mobile users *actually* wanted was something like
    iOS which was designed from the outset to match the capabilities of the platform. As a result, they ended up with a freakish Fiji mermaid of a
    GUI that made *nobody* happy. And, like GNOME Team, they responded to
    popular outcry by insisting that Actually This Makes Total Sense And
    You Just Don't Get It...only to walk back their most egregious idiocies
    a few years later with the release of Win10, tee hee hee.


    That's why Mate forked as of Gnome 2.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John Ames@3:633/10 to All on Thu Feb 5 10:09:12 2026
    On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 10:43:53 -0700
    Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:

    As with GNOME 3, they made all kinds of bizarre alterations to the
    desktop experience as concessions to what they imagined mobile users
    would want, but what mobile users *actually* wanted was something
    like iOS which was designed from the outset to match the
    capabilities of the platform. As a result, they ended up with a
    freakish Fiji mermaid of a GUI that made *nobody* happy. And, like
    GNOME Team, they responded to popular outcry by insisting that
    Actually This Makes Total Sense And You Just Don't Get It...only to
    walk back their most egregious idiocies a few years later with the
    release of Win10, tee hee hee.

    That's why Mate forked as of Gnome 2.

    The only thing surprising about that was that it didn't happen sooner.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Thu Feb 5 22:25:02 2026
    On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 08:26:20 -0800, John Ames wrote:

    On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 09:03:20 -0000 (UTC)
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    Windows 8 was such a radical shift for MS at the time. I remember
    when they first unveiled that Start screen and thinking that
    they?ve designed this operating system for tablets and touch
    screens and never thought of the desktop, which was their core
    market back then ...

    The irony being, it wasn?t all that great as a mobile interface
    either.

    As with GNOME 3 ...

    Aren?t we glad nobody tried to make a mobile device using GNOME 3?

    But then, Linux offers a choice of GUIs, each suited to different
    application areas, whereas Microsoft it seems can only offer Windows
    with one. So when they tried to adapt Windows for mobile, they had to
    share a common interface across both desktop and mobile, to the
    detriment of both.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ~pasnec-salmyr@3:633/10 to All on Fri Feb 6 00:07:53 2026
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 08:26:20 -0800, John Ames wrote:

    On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 09:03:20 -0000 (UTC)
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    Windows 8 was such a radical shift for MS at the time. I remember
    when they first unveiled that Start screen and thinking that
    they?ve designed this operating system for tablets and touch
    screens and never thought of the desktop, which was their core
    market back then ...

    The irony being, it wasn?t all that great as a mobile interface
    either.

    As with GNOME 3 ...

    Aren?t we glad nobody tried to make a mobile device using GNOME 3?

    But then, Linux offers a choice of GUIs, each suited to different
    application areas, whereas Microsoft it seems can only offer Windows
    with one. So when they tried to adapt Windows for mobile, they had to
    share a common interface across both desktop and mobile, to the
    detriment of both.


    IMO, unifying interfaces between different device platforms always end in tragedy. I have yet to see a UI for an OS that works well on both desktop
    and mobile.

    I think it has something to do with just how different people interact with
    a touch-enabled device and an actual desktop system. It reminds me a bit of Lenovo Yoga, actually.

    A device that did this hybrid laptop/tablet thing, IMO, would probably the iPad, but even that is running a system that is specific to it and takes advantage of its hybrid features.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Fri Feb 6 04:57:11 2026
    On Fri, 06 Feb 2026 00:07:53 +0000, ~pasnec-salmyr wrote:

    A device that did this hybrid laptop/tablet thing, IMO, would
    probably the iPad, but even that is running a system that is
    specific to it and takes advantage of its hybrid features.

    Apple has 3 different platforms, but instead of 3 different
    purpose-built GUIs on a common OS kernel, it looks like they are
    really 3 separate OSes, developed in parallel.

    I hope they have good mechanisms internally for sharing common code.
    Otherwise their development process is likely very expensive.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Bill Findlay@3:633/10 to All on Sat Feb 7 21:48:02 2026
    On 6 Feb 2026, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote
    (in article <10m3sb6$3rhd2$3@dont-email.me>):

    On Fri, 06 Feb 2026 00:07:53 +0000, ~pasnec-salmyr wrote:

    A device that did this hybrid laptop/tablet thing, IMO, would
    probably the iPad, but even that is running a system that is
    specific to it and takes advantage of its hybrid features.

    Apple has 3 different platforms, but instead of 3 different
    purpose-built GUIs on a common OS kernel, it looks like they are
    really 3 separate OSes, developed in parallel.

    I hope they have good mechanisms internally for sharing common code. Otherwise their development process is likely very expensive.

    Sigh.

    --
    Bill Findlay


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Theo@3:633/10 to All on Mon Feb 9 12:32:20 2026
    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 06 Feb 2026 00:07:53 +0000, ~pasnec-salmyr wrote:

    A device that did this hybrid laptop/tablet thing, IMO, would
    probably the iPad, but even that is running a system that is
    specific to it and takes advantage of its hybrid features.

    Apple has 3 different platforms, but instead of 3 different
    purpose-built GUIs on a common OS kernel, it looks like they are
    really 3 separate OSes, developed in parallel.

    I hope they have good mechanisms internally for sharing common code. Otherwise their development process is likely very expensive.

    It's the same codebase, but the upper layers are different. They just
    market them as different OSes (macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS, visionOS)
    but the lower levels like the XNU kernel are shared.

    More interesting are the embedded OSes like BridgeOS, which is apparently derived from watchOS and runs on things like the T2 chip, the Touch Bar and some of their dongles.

    Theo

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Lawrence D?Oliveiro@3:633/10 to All on Mon Feb 9 21:54:07 2026
    On 09 Feb 2026 12:32:20 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:

    Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    Apple has 3 different platforms, but instead of 3 different
    purpose-built GUIs on a common OS kernel, it looks like they are
    really 3 separate OSes, developed in parallel.

    I hope they have good mechanisms internally for sharing common
    code. Otherwise their development process is likely very expensive.

    It's the same codebase, but the upper layers are different. They
    just market them as different OSes (macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS,
    watchOS, visionOS) but the lower levels like the XNU kernel are
    shared.

    More interesting are the embedded OSes like BridgeOS, which is
    apparently derived from watchOS and runs on things like the T2 chip,
    the Touch Bar and some of their dongles.

    The key point being, those upper layers are not isolated to userland
    like they are on *nix systems, they are very much tied into the OS
    kernel.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.11
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)