Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

OS/2
Visual Smalltalk (tm)
32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
v3.0 434920
Digitalk
Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of
curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 11/12/2025 9:27 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

ÿÿÿ OS/2
ÿÿÿ Visual Smalltalk (tm)
ÿÿÿ 32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
ÿÿÿ v3.0 434920
ÿÿÿ Digitalk
ÿÿÿ Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

There are a few Smalltalk implementations that might work on modern
hardware and software, and you might find those more useful than a
31-year-old relic. On the other hand, if you have a system running OS/2
and you want to install Visual Smalltalk, I'd be happy to email you the contents of the floppies (about 10MB).

Louis




--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, 12 Nov 2025 23:19:34 -0700
Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> wrote:

On 11/12/2025 9:27 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

??? OS/2
??? Visual Smalltalk (tm)
??? 32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
??? v3.0 434920
??? Digitalk
??? Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

+1

There are a few Smalltalk implementations that might work on modern
hardware and software, and you might find those more useful than a 31-year-old relic. On the other hand, if you have a system running OS/2
and you want to install Visual Smalltalk, I'd be happy to email you the contents of the floppies (about 10MB).

Louis

Wasn't 'Smalltalk' the first Object Orientated language? Yup. So maybe of
some historical interest.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 11/14/2025 3:36 AM, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2025 23:19:34 -0700
Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> wrote:

On 11/12/2025 9:27 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

ÿÿÿ OS/2
ÿÿÿ Visual Smalltalk (tm)
ÿÿÿ 32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
ÿÿÿ v3.0 434920
ÿÿÿ Digitalk
ÿÿÿ Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of
curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

+1

There are a few Smalltalk implementations that might work on modern
hardware and software, and you might find those more useful than a
31-year-old relic. On the other hand, if you have a system running OS/2
and you want to install Visual Smalltalk, I'd be happy to email you the
contents of the floppies (about 10MB).

Louis

Wasn't 'Smalltalk' the first Object Orientated language? Yup. So maybe of some historical interest.

I'm not sure this particular Smalltalk distribution would function
without an OS/2 system, but if you would like to see what you can do
with it, I'd be happy to email you the floppy contents.

Louis


--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 11/14/25 05:08, Louis Krupp wrote:

I'm not sure this particular Smalltalk distribution would function
without an OS/2 system, but if you would like to see what you can do
with it, I'd be happy to email you the floppy contents.

Louis

Louis, I'd be interested. I have a working OS/2 system. TIA.
Pete

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 11/14/25 09:36, Peter Flass wrote:

On 11/14/25 05:08, Louis Krupp wrote:

I'm not sure this particular Smalltalk distribution would function
without an OS/2 system, but if you would like to see what you can do
with it, I'd be happy to email you the floppy contents.

Louis

Louis, I'd be interested. I have a working OS/2 system. TIA.
ÿÿ Pete

See squeak.com


--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 10:36:12 +0000, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

Wasn't 'Smalltalk' the first Object Orientated language?

Smalltalk -- 1966
Simula -- 1961

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming>

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 10:47:03 -0500, geodandw wrote:

On 11/14/25 09:36, Peter Flass wrote:

Louis, I'd be interested. I have a working OS/2 system. TIA.
ÿÿ Pete

See squeak.com

I think you mean <https://squeak.org/>.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 14 Nov 2025 19:28:26 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 10:36:12 +0000, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

Wasn't 'Smalltalk' the first Object Orientated language? Yup. So maybe
of some historical interest.

Yeah. Depending on your outlook is should be praised or damned for
starting the 'everything' is an object idea.

I find they're mostly Spherical.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 10:47:03 -0500, geodandw wrote:

On 11/14/25 09:36, Peter Flass wrote:

Louis, I'd be interested. I have a working OS/2 system. TIA.
ÿÿ Pete

See squeak.com

I think you mean <https://squeak.org/>.

wow, wish i had 10yrs of free time. :)
enjoy! :)


songbird

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

OS/2
Visual Smalltalk (tm)
32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
v3.0 434920
Digitalk
Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

it was one of the first languages that really got my interest
in OOP, but i only touched it a few times and never got further.

sadly i do not consider python as currently implemented to be
OOP, but that's just me... i also may be wrong in this opinion
but not too concerned now about it unless i were to write some
other approach - no time right now other than to say. neato. :)
have fun. :)


songbird

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

On 14 Nov 2025 19:28:26 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 10:36:12 +0000, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

Wasn't 'Smalltalk' the first Object Orientated language? Yup. So maybe
of some historical interest.

Yeah. Depending on your outlook is should be praised or damned for
starting the 'everything' is an object idea.

I find they're mostly Spherical.

haha, theoretically all ones and zeroes...


songbird (first we start with assuming the cow is spherical...

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 20:21:54 -0500, songbird wrote:

sadly i do not consider python as currently implemented to be OOP
...

In Python, everything is very much an object. To be specific, every
value that you can compute in an expression and put in a variable is
an object. Furthermore, functions and classes are objects, too.

But then, every object is an instance of a class. So if functions and
classes are objects, what are they instances of?

And then things start to get interesting ...

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Louis Krupp wrote:

On 11/12/2025 9:27 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

OS/2
Visual Smalltalk (tm)
32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
v3.0 434920
Digitalk
Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of
curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

There are a few Smalltalk implementations that might work on modern
hardware and software, and you might find those more useful than a 31-year-old relic. On the other hand, if you have a system running OS/2
and you want to install Visual Smalltalk, I'd be happy to email you the contents of the floppies (about 10MB).

If you look at my headers, I'm posting from,
Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0 SeaMonkey/2.42.9esr
So yes, I have a working OS/2 system and the knowledge how to install something like Visual Smalltalk without hosing the system. It's probably
like other Visual compilers and will install old versions of system
software.
You can try the mailing address on the post, if Google rejects it, I can
give you a different email, but not here.
Dave


--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Peter Flass wrote:

On 11/14/25 05:08, Louis Krupp wrote:

I'm not sure this particular Smalltalk distribution would function
without an OS/2 system, but if you would like to see what you can do
with it, I'd be happy to email you the floppy contents.

Louis

Louis, I'd be interested. I have a working OS/2 system. TIA.

Don't let it downgrade your SOM as you will no longer have a working
OS/2 system :)
Dave

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 20:59:49 -0800, Dave Yeo wrote:

Don't let it downgrade your SOM as you will no longer have a working
OS/2 system :)

The Battle Of The SOM all over again, is it ...

?It was like the First World War. We had heavy metal back then, but we
called it shrapnel in those days.?
-- Alexei Sayle

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 20:21:54 -0500, songbird wrote:

sadly i do not consider python as currently implemented to be OOP
...

In Python, everything is very much an object. To be specific, every
value that you can compute in an expression and put in a variable is
an object. Furthermore, functions and classes are objects, too.

But then, every object is an instance of a class. So if functions and
classes are objects, what are they instances of?

And then things start to get interesting ...

well, my perspective is that every created object seems to be
accessible through the references from the main program and not
really independently existing so you can't really isolate those
objects or prevent them from being messed with in some ways that
to me should be simplistic, built in and obvious. but perhaps
i'm missing something or some finer point? :) i'll admit i'm
not too deep into this any more as i've been off doing other
things.

ultimately what i think is that if an object is created then
after that the only way that object can be accessed is through
messages and only that way and that if somehow you really need
to get rid of an object that somehow has been corrupted or
somehow lost track of you pretty much would need to reset the
whole system. :) which may seem to be extreme, but that to
me is what encapsulation would mean (and if messages were
encrypted then that would be as secure as i think needed in
this crazy world - and now i consider it being even more crazy
than before so even more needed).

however, what do i really know? not much these days as i do
not find the AI craze anything other than a wasteful and very
harmful boondoggle - sure some of it is useful, but on the
whole if you can't trust the results to be aware and reasonably
factual you would need to be smart enough to know what likely
parts are crap and if you don't who are you going to hire to
verify that? what a mess... keep kicking that down the road
as far as you like along with the wasted electricity and harm
to the environment. yeah, it's great! (not really if the
sarcasm didn't come through clearly)...


songbird

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 23:33:25 -0500, songbird wrote:

well, my perspective is that every created object seems to be
accessible through the references from the main program and not
really independently existing so you can't really isolate those
objects or prevent them from being messed with in some ways that
to me should be simplistic, built in and obvious. but perhaps
i'm missing something or some finer point?

Object comparison versus object-value comparison in Python:

? 1 << 64 is 1 << 64
? True

? a = 1 << 64
? b = 1 << 64
? a == b, a is b
? (True, False)

ultimately what i think is that if an object is created then
after that the only way that object can be accessed is through
messages ...

? 2 + 2
? 4

?+? is just syntactic sugar for

? (2).__add__(2)
? 4

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 11/14/25 21:59, Dave Yeo wrote:

Peter Flass wrote:

On 11/14/25 05:08, Louis Krupp wrote:

I'm not sure this particular Smalltalk distribution would function
without an OS/2 system, but if you would like to see what you can do
with it, I'd be happy to email you the floppy contents.

Louis

Louis, I'd be interested. I have a working OS/2 system. TIA.

Don't let it downgrade your SOM as you will no longer have a working
OS/2 system :)
Dave

The beauty of having lots of disk is a luxury I didn't have back in the
day. Break system? No problem, just restore the most recent backup.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 15 Nov 2025 09:09:10 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

But code blocks are not objects in Python as they are in Smalltalk.

They?re really just unnamed functions of no arguments, aren?t they. Easy enough to do those in Python.

Smalltalk lacks metaclasses (classes of which instances are other
classes). Xerox Smalltalk has something it calls ?metaclasses?, but
they?re just an implementation mechanism on which to hang classmethods.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 11/14/2025 9:48 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

On 11/12/2025 9:27 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

ÿÿÿ OS/2
ÿÿÿ Visual Smalltalk (tm)
ÿÿÿ 32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
ÿÿÿ v3.0 434920
ÿÿÿ Digitalk
ÿÿÿ Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of
curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

There are a few Smalltalk implementations that might work on modern
hardware and software, and you might find those more useful than a
31-year-old relic. On the other hand, if you have a system running OS/2
and you want to install Visual Smalltalk, I'd be happy to email you the
contents of the floppies (about 10MB).

If you look at my headers, I'm posting from,
Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0 SeaMonkey/2.42.9esr
So yes, I have a working OS/2 system and the knowledge how to install something like Visual Smalltalk without hosing the system. It's
probably like other Visual compilers and will install old versions of
system software.
You can try the mailing address on the post, if Google rejects it, I
can give you a different email, but not here.
Dave

I sent email to the address in your "From:" header. Did you get it?

Louis

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 11/17/25 18:08, Louis Krupp wrote:

On 11/14/2025 9:48 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

On 11/12/2025 9:27 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

ÿÿÿ OS/2
ÿÿÿ Visual Smalltalk (tm)
ÿÿÿ 32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
ÿÿÿ v3.0 434920
ÿÿÿ Digitalk
ÿÿÿ Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of
curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

There are a few Smalltalk implementations that might work on modern
hardware and software, and you might find those more useful than a
31-year-old relic. On the other hand, if you have a system running OS/2
and you want to install Visual Smalltalk, I'd be happy to email you the
contents of the floppies (about 10MB).

If you look at my headers, I'm posting from,
Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0
SeaMonkey/2.42.9esr
So yes, I have a working OS/2 system and the knowledge how to install
something like Visual Smalltalk without hosing the system. It's
probably like other Visual compilers and will install old versions of
system software.
You can try the mailing address on the post, if Google rejects it, I
can give you a different email, but not here.
Dave

I sent email to the address in your "From:" header. Did you get it?

Louis

Your note was probably for Dave. Thanks a lot anyway!

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 11/17/2025 8:28 PM, Peter Flass wrote:

On 11/17/25 18:08, Louis Krupp wrote:

On 11/14/2025 9:48 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

On 11/12/2025 9:27 PM, Dave Yeo wrote:

Louis Krupp wrote:

I found this installation kit on eight 3.5" floppies:

ÿÿÿ OS/2
ÿÿÿ Visual Smalltalk (tm)
ÿÿÿ 32-bit Pure Object-Oriented Programming System
ÿÿÿ v3.0 434920
ÿÿÿ Digitalk
ÿÿÿ Copyright 1994

Would anyone have a use for this?

You should put it on archive.com or such, I'd install it just out of >>>>> curiosity as I've never used Smalltalk
Dave

There are a few Smalltalk implementations that might work on modern
hardware and software, and you might find those more useful than a
31-year-old relic. On the other hand, if you have a system running
OS/2
and you want to install Visual Smalltalk, I'd be happy to email you
the
contents of the floppies (about 10MB).

If you look at my headers, I'm posting from,
Mozilla/5.0 (OS/2; Warp 4.5; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0
SeaMonkey/2.42.9esr
So yes, I have a working OS/2 system and the knowledge how to
install something like Visual Smalltalk without hosing the system.
It's probably like other Visual compilers and will install old
versions of system software.
You can try the mailing address on the post, if Google rejects it, I
can give you a different email, but not here.
Dave

I sent email to the address in your "From:" header. Did you get it?

Louis

Your note was probably for Dave. Thanks a lot anyway!

It was. My apologies...

Louis

--- PyGate Linux v1.5
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)