Just been watching this RetroBytes video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5v0CK249rI> about the attempt by a
bunch of Unix vendors (led by Sun) to create an open, nonproprietary
standard around the Windows API in the early-to-mid-1990s.
Naturally, Microsoft was not keen on this at all, and threw around
legal threats against those who would dare to turn its precious
?intellectual property? into something that anybody could copy. Those delaying tactics worked for a couple of years, which was long enough
to render the standardization proposal irrelevant. It did get as far
as being published by ECMA as their standard ?ECMA 234?, but the
effort to put it through ISO just kind of ... petered out.
The problem was, the proposal was based on Win16, since 16-bit Windows
apps were still the dominant kind during the early 1990s. So when
Microsoft came out with Windows 95 and later, which shared a common
subset ?Win32? API in common with Windows NT, and Windows app
developers moved wholesale to implementing their apps on that, the 16-bit-only standard proposal was rendered largely obsolete.
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing their
API, so they're always a moving target.
On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 22:06:08 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing their
API, so they're always a moving target.
WINE (plus Proton) manages to keep up. It?s doing so well, particularly
with games, that we have handheld Linux devices (the Steam Deck and the SteamOS version of the Lenovo Legion Go S) now that do a better job of running those Windows games than Windows devices themselves can manage.
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 22:06:08 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing their
API, so they're always a moving target.
WINE (plus Proton) manages to keep up. It?s doing so well, particularly
with games, that we have handheld Linux devices (the Steam Deck and the
SteamOS version of the Lenovo Legion Go S) now that do a better job of
running those Windows games than Windows devices themselves can manage.
<https://reactos.org/>
On 11/5/25 10:06, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 22:06:08 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing their
API, so they're always a moving target.
WINE (plus Proton) manages to keep up. It?s doing so well, particularly
with games, that we have handheld Linux devices (the Steam Deck and the
SteamOS version of the Lenovo Legion Go S) now that do a better job of
running those Windows games than Windows devices themselves can manage.
<https://reactos.org/>
Interesting -- I never heard of it. What version(s) of windows is it compatible with?
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
On 11/5/25 10:06, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 22:06:08 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:<https://reactos.org/>
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing their >>>>> API, so they're always a moving target.
WINE (plus Proton) manages to keep up. It?s doing so well, particularly >>>> with games, that we have handheld Linux devices (the Steam Deck and the >>>> SteamOS version of the Lenovo Legion Go S) now that do a better job of >>>> running those Windows games than Windows devices themselves can manage. >>>
Interesting -- I never heard of it. What version(s) of windows is it
compatible with?
From their Development > Architecture page:
?The ReactOS kernel currently targets NT 5.2 and supports both x86 and x64 platforms.?
NT 5.2 corresponds to XP Pro with amd64 support.
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
On 11/5/25 10:06, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 22:06:08 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:<https://reactos.org/>
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing their >>>>> API, so they're always a moving target.
WINE (plus Proton) manages to keep up. It?s doing so well, particularly >>>> with games, that we have handheld Linux devices (the Steam Deck and the >>>> SteamOS version of the Lenovo Legion Go S) now that do a better job of >>>> running those Windows games than Windows devices themselves can manage. >>>
Interesting -- I never heard of it. What version(s) of windows is it
compatible with?
From their Development > Architecture page:
?The ReactOS kernel currently targets NT 5.2 and supports both x86 and x64 platforms.?
NT 5.2 corresponds to XP Pro with amd64 support.
?The ReactOS kernel currently targets NT 5.2 and supports both x86 and
x64 platforms.?
NT 5.2 corresponds to XP Pro with amd64 support.
x86?The ReactOS kernel currently targets NT 5.2 and supports both
and x64 platforms.?
NT 5.2 corresponds to XP Pro with amd64 support.
More of a retrocomputing curiosity, then, rather than a serious
option (like WINE) for production use.
On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 19:37:40 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
?The ReactOS kernel currently targets NT 5.2 and supports both x86
and x64 platforms.?
NT 5.2 corresponds to XP Pro with amd64 support.
More of a retrocomputing curiosity, then, rather than a serious
option (like WINE) for production use.
It's been a hot minute since I looked at ReactOS, but you can do
plenty with XP-era software.
But I've been waiting for them to get past "Real Soon Now" to
"actually ready for primetime" for 15+ years, myself... :/
On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 19:37:40 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
?The ReactOS kernel currently targets NT 5.2 and supports both x86
and x64 platforms.?
NT 5.2 corresponds to XP Pro with amd64 support.
More of a retrocomputing curiosity, then, rather than a serious
option (like WINE) for production use.
It's been a hot minute since I looked at ReactOS, but you can do plenty
with XP-era software. But I've been waiting for them to get past "Real
Soon Now" to "actually ready for primetime" for 15+ years, myself... :/
On 11/7/25 13:09, John Ames wrote:
On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 19:37:40 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
?The ReactOS kernel currently targets NT 5.2 and supports both x86
and x64 platforms.?
NT 5.2 corresponds to XP Pro with amd64 support.
More of a retrocomputing curiosity, then, rather than a serious
option (like WINE) for production use.
It's been a hot minute since I looked at ReactOS, but you can do plenty
with XP-era software. But I've been waiting for them to get past "Real
Soon Now" to "actually ready for primetime" for 15+ years, myself... :/
I have real XP in a virtual machine that I fire up occasionally. I
thinks XP is whats on the old laptop I mentioned that I haven't used in years.
I have real XP in a virtual machine that I fire up occasionally.
I have an air-gapped core 2 duo XP system I use every day to run my duplex sheet fed scanner.
On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 08:23:49 -0800, Al Kossow wrote:
I have an air-gapped core 2 duo XP system I use every day to run my duplex sheet fed scanner.
How does it connect? SCSI? USB?
On 11/8/25 1:23 PM, Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 08:23:49 -0800, Al Kossow wrote:
I have an air-gapped core 2 duo XP system I use every day to run
my duplex sheet fed scanner.
How does it connect? SCSI? USB?
scsi
thumb drive to sneakernet
It's been a hot minute since I looked at ReactOS, but you can do
plenty with XP-era software.
All of which (apart from low-level drivers or other kernel-specific
stuff) would run at least as well on WINE.
On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 23:17:01 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
It's been a hot minute since I looked at ReactOS, but you can do
plenty with XP-era software.
All of which (apart from low-level drivers or other kernel-specific
stuff) would run at least as well on WINE.
Very possibly, yes - but the goal of ReactOS is to provide a full FOSS equivalent to the WinNT environment, rather than just a compatibility
layer for running individual applications.
Very possibly, yes - but the goal of ReactOS is to provide a full
FOSS equivalent to the WinNT environment, rather than just a
compatibility layer for running individual applications.
Like I said, more of a retrocomputing curiosity, then, than a serious
option for production use.
After all, it?s the applications that Windows users care about.
Nobody enjoys using Windows just for itself.
On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 20:39:24 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Very possibly, yes - but the goal of ReactOS is to provide a full
FOSS equivalent to the WinNT environment, rather than just a
compatibility layer for running individual applications.
Like I said, more of a retrocomputing curiosity, then, than a serious
option for production use.
After all, it?s the applications that Windows users care about.
Nobody enjoys using Windows just for itself.
The fact that they've spent 27 years developing a FOSS equivalent to
WinNT, including the desktop environment and file manager, is a strong testament to the fact that they do - or, if not "enjoy," that they at
least prefer running a full and consistent Win-alike environment to
running Windows applications in a foreign environment by means of a compatibility layer.
If they can only fix the scrollbar problem.
On 2025-11-10, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
If they can only fix the scrollbar problem.
Are you referring to the way the knob "slips out of your
grasp" and snaps back to its original position should the
mouse stray too far away? That's my pet peeve.
On 11/10/25 15:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-11-10, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
If they can only fix the scrollbar problem.
Are you referring to the way the knob "slips out of your
grasp" and snaps back to its original position should the
mouse stray too far away? That's my pet peeve.
Yes. I can't believe they left it this way all this time! I grab the
slider and move it all the way to the top, but if I'm not careful I'm
back where I started.
On 2025-11-11, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
On 11/10/25 15:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-11-10, Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
If they can only fix the scrollbar problem.
Are you referring to the way the knob "slips out of your
grasp" and snaps back to its original position should the
mouse stray too far away? That's my pet peeve.
Yes. I can't believe they left it this way all this time! I grab the
slider and move it all the way to the top, but if I'm not careful I'm
back where I started.
It turns what should be a simple gesture into a slow, painstaking
maneuver. What really bothers me is that it must have taken a lot
of extra programming effort to constantly calculate the distance
between the mouse pointer and the scroll bar, and bail out of
the processing loop if that distance is large enough (after first
restoring the original location, which would have to be stored
somewhere).
This behaviour requires far too much programming effort to have
happened due to accident or negligence. Whenever I see some
boneheaded move being made, I try to remind myself of Hanlon's
Razor: "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be
explaned by stupidity." And then a little voice in the back
of my mind says, "But Microsoft isn't stupid!"
Thank heaven no other GUI I've ever seen indulges in such idiocy.
And then a little voice in the back of my mind says, "But Microsoft
isn't stupid!"
On Tue, 11 Nov 2025 21:07:41 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
And then a little voice in the back of my mind says, "But Microsoft
isn't stupid!"
Of course they are -- as a corporate entity. This in spite of the fact
that they employ many people who, individually, can be quite
brilliant.
Wonder how individual decisions by seemingly intelligent people can
add up to collective stupidity? The next time you?re in a traffic jam,
wonder no more.
Think of Microsoft as one great corporate traffic jam.
On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 22:06:08 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing their
API, so they're always a moving target.
WINE (plus Proton) manages to keep up. It?s doing so well, particularly
with games, that we have handheld Linux devices (the Steam Deck and the SteamOS version of the Lenovo Legion Go S) now that do a better job of running those Windows games than Windows devices themselves can manage.
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
And how many developers does it take to keep up?
On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 22:06:08 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing
their API, so they're always a moving target.
WINE (plus Proton) manages to keep up. It?s doing so well,
particularly with games, that we have handheld Linux devices (the
Steam Deck and the SteamOS version of the Lenovo Legion Go S) now
that do a better job of running those Windows games than Windows
devices themselves can manage.
I remember the race between IBM and MS where MS would break the API,
IBM would respond with fixes for WinOS2 and MS would break something
else. Eventually they moved some DLL's into high memory that OS/2 at
the time couldn't easily access.
On Fri, 14 Nov 2025 21:15:35 -0800, Dave Yeo wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
And how many developers does it take to keep up?
On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 22:06:08 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Microsoft heads off all these attempts by continually changing
their API, so they're always a moving target.
WINE (plus Proton) manages to keep up. It?s doing so well,
particularly with games, that we have handheld Linux devices (the
Steam Deck and the SteamOS version of the Lenovo Legion Go S) now
that do a better job of running those Windows games than Windows
devices themselves can manage.
A tiny fraction of the headcount available to Microsoft. Like maybe a
couple of orders of magnitude less.
I remember the race between IBM and MS where MS would break the API,
IBM would respond with fixes for WinOS2 and MS would break something
else. Eventually they moved some DLL's into high memory that OS/2 at
the time couldn't easily access.
Microsoft can?t seem to do that nowadays. It has enough problems just
coming out with fixes for bugs in Windows that don?t cause new bugs.
They don?t have time or resources to play those compatibility games
any more.
This is what you get with any old codebase.
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