• Re: The Rise And Fall Of Unix

    From Sebastian@3:633/280.2 to All on Sat Dec 7 09:36:05 2024
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 08:09:45 -0000 (UTC), Bozo User wrote:

    On 2024-08-27, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    As I said before, where Linux leads, the BSDs follow ...

    Under OpenBSD ifconfig manages even WPA2. You just need wpa-supplicant
    for stuff like eduroam...

    So you have your wireless handling split across two different tools.

    As I said before, where Linux leads, the BSDs follow ...

    I got a nasty preview of exactly where Linux is leading us today.

    I was on a call with someone who was running Wayland. Supposedly,
    all the complaints of Wayland not supporting screen-sharing are
    false, but this guy was unable to share more than one window at
    a time.

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting
    this and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to
    MacOS.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:633/280.2 to All on Sat Dec 7 12:17:30 2024
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting
    this and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to
    MacOS.

    MacOS doesn’t really count as “Unix” (the concept, not the trademark) any
    more. It’s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From JB Schirtzinger@3:633/280.2 to All on Sun Dec 8 03:42:53 2024
    On 12/6/24 19:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting
    this and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to
    MacOS.

    MacOS doesn’t really count as “Unix” (the concept, not the trademark) any
    more. It’s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    Not all linux distros use Wayland. If by linux you mean "large distros"
    that is another statement entirely.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:633/280.2 to All on Sun Dec 8 09:31:13 2024
    On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 10:42:53 -0600, JB Schirtzinger wrote:

    On 12/6/24 19:17, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting this
    and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to MacOS.

    MacOS doesn’t really count as “Unix” (the concept, not the trademark) >> any more. It’s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    Not all linux distros use Wayland.

    At least they have the option.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Sebastian@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Dec 9 04:15:30 2024
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting
    this and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to
    MacOS.

    MacOS doesn?t really count as ?Unix? (the concept, not the trademark) any more. It?s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    That's why I don't see myself still using Linux or Unix as a GUI
    operating system for much longer. What can I do with Wayland that
    I cannot do with a Mac? The answer is fuck-all.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Dec 9 07:08:48 2024
    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 17:15:30 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    That's why I don't see myself still using Linux or Unix as a GUI
    operating system for much longer.

    Open Source is all about choice. The only reason change is happening is because a bunch of like-minded folks got together to make it happen.

    If you want a different change to happen, you, too, have got to create a community to actively make it happen. Being a passive, complaining user isn’t going to do it.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From JB Schirtzinger@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Dec 9 08:57:51 2024
    On 12/8/24 11:15, Sebastian wrote:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting
    this and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to
    MacOS.

    MacOS doesn?t really count as ?Unix? (the concept, not the trademark) any
    more. It?s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    That's why I don't see myself still using Linux or Unix as a GUI
    operating system for much longer. What can I do with Wayland that
    I cannot do with a Mac? The answer is fuck-all.


    The great thing about linux is that you do not HAVE to use it. By all
    means, buy a Mac if it suit your purposes better. Don't be surprised,
    however, when you have to pay for the privilege.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Bob Eager@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Dec 9 09:09:43 2024
    On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 15:57:51 -0600, JB Schirtzinger wrote:

    On 12/8/24 11:15, Sebastian wrote:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting this
    and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to MacOS.

    MacOS doesn?t really count as ?Unix? (the concept, not the trademark)
    any more. It?s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    That's why I don't see myself still using Linux or Unix as a GUI
    operating system for much longer. What can I do with Wayland that I
    cannot do with a Mac? The answer is fuck-all.


    The great thing about linux is that you do not HAVE to use it. By all
    means, buy a Mac if it suit your purposes better. Don't be surprised, however, when you have to pay for the privilege.

    Macs are expensive UNIX GUI operating systems.



    --
    Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

    Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
    http://www.mirrorservice.org

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: ---:- FTN<->UseNet Gate -:--- (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From JB Schirtzinger@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Dec 9 11:35:46 2024
    On 12/8/24 16:18, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
    On 2024-12-08, JB Schirtzinger <jbschirtzinger@theroyalrainbow.com> wrote:

    The great thing about linux is that you do not HAVE to use it.

    Of course not. You have to use Windows instead.

    That's probably the biggest laugh Bill Gates will have all day.


    No need to go and sell your soul.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Bob Eager@3:633/280.2 to All on Mon Dec 9 20:59:04 2024
    On Sun, 08 Dec 2024 22:18:03 +0000, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

    On 2024-12-08, JB Schirtzinger <jbschirtzinger@theroyalrainbow.com>
    wrote:

    The great thing about linux is that you do not HAVE to use it.

    Of course not. You have to use Windows instead.

    Not at all. I use BSD, which is substantially different.

    --
    Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

    Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
    http://www.mirrorservice.org

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: ---:- FTN<->UseNet Gate -:--- (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Dec 10 00:48:56 2024
    Reply-To: slp53@pacbell.net

    Sebastian <sebastian@here.com.invalid> writes:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting
    this and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to
    MacOS.

    MacOS doesn?t really count as ?Unix? (the concept, not the trademark) any >> more. It?s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    That's why I don't see myself still using Linux or Unix as a GUI
    operating system for much longer. What can I do with Wayland that
    I cannot do with a Mac? The answer is fuck-all.

    Actually the fatal defect with the Mac is the complete lack of
    support for 'focus-follows-mouse'. A secondary defect is the
    stupid windows-style cut-n-paste where you must use use menus
    or keyboard shortcuts.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: UsenetServer - www.usenetserver.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Chris Ahlstrom@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Dec 10 01:21:04 2024
    Scott Lurndal wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

    Sebastian <sebastian@here.com.invalid> writes:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting
    this and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to
    MacOS.

    MacOS doesn?t really count as ?Unix? (the concept, not the trademark) any >>> more. It?s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    That's why I don't see myself still using Linux or Unix as a GUI
    operating system for much longer. What can I do with Wayland that
    I cannot do with a Mac? The answer is fuck-all.

    I would invert that, myself:

    That's why I don't see myself still using Mac or Windows as a GUI
    operating system for much longer. What can I do with them that
    I cannot do with Linux?

    Actually the fatal defect with the Mac is the complete lack of
    support for 'focus-follows-mouse'. A secondary defect is the
    stupid windows-style cut-n-paste where you must use use menus
    or keyboard shortcuts.

    You can set Windows to do that focus-follows thing, but it is really annoying.

    On Linux, the Fluxbox window manager supports it in a more useful way.

    Also, for cut-n-paste, don't you need at least a short-cut (mouse click
    or keyboard) to paste?

    --
    Let not the sands of time get in your lunch.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: None (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Scott Lurndal@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Dec 10 01:25:35 2024
    Reply-To: slp53@pacbell.net

    Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> writes:
    Scott Lurndal wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

    Sebastian <sebastian@here.com.invalid> writes:
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 22:36:05 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

    I can't wait until we're all forced to decide between accepting
    this and other permanent Wayland limitations, or switching to
    MacOS.

    MacOS doesn?t really count as ?Unix? (the concept, not the trademark) any >>>> more. It?s Linux compatibility that matters nowadays.

    Even the BSDs are looking to adopt things like Wayland.

    That's why I don't see myself still using Linux or Unix as a GUI >>>operating system for much longer. What can I do with Wayland that
    I cannot do with a Mac? The answer is fuck-all.

    I would invert that, myself:

    That's why I don't see myself still using Mac or Windows as a GUI
    operating system for much longer. What can I do with them that
    I cannot do with Linux?

    Actually the fatal defect with the Mac is the complete lack of
    support for 'focus-follows-mouse'. A secondary defect is the
    stupid windows-style cut-n-paste where you must use use menus
    or keyboard shortcuts.

    You can set Windows to do that focus-follows thing, but it is really annoying.

    On Linux, the Fluxbox window manager supports it in a more useful way.

    Also, for cut-n-paste, don't you need at least a short-cut (mouse click
    or keyboard) to paste?

    I don't consider the 'middle-button' paste to be a short-cut, it is
    the primary mechanism for paste (once three-button mice showed up).

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: UsenetServer - www.usenetserver.com (3:633/280.2@fidonet)
  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@3:633/280.2 to All on Tue Dec 10 05:56:32 2024
    On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 15:57:51 -0600, JB Schirtzinger wrote:

    The great thing about linux is that you do not HAVE to use it.

    The greater thing about it is there are so many ways to use it. You don’t have to give it up altogether if there is something about one distro you don’t like: there are over 300 other choices available.

    Or if you don’t like the existing options, you can start your own. That’s how all those existing options started, after all.

    --- MBSE BBS v1.0.8.4 (Linux-x86_64)
    * Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)