• Missing from Sent box

    From Ed Cryer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 12:11:43 2026
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's gone
    missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I went
    to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handling
    the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webmail
    and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Ed Cryer@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 12:17:04 2026
    Ed Cryer wrote:
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's gone
    missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I went
    to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handling
    the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webmail
    and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    I found it with an advanced search. It was hundreds of places down from
    the top, not right at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle.
    How did it get there? What did I do?

    Ed


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 20:29:31 2026
    On 11/4/2026 8:17 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    Ed Cryer wrote:
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's gone
    missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I went
    to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handling
    the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webmail
    and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    I found it with an advanced search. It was hundreds of places down from
    the top, not right at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle.
    How did it get there? What did I do?

    Ed

    Possibly nothing. I know Thunderbird has random bugs, and while I'm not familiar with /Betterbird/, I'd expect it to have many of the same prob-
    lems.
    --
    Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
    I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
    Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Alan K.@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 07:47:36 2026
    On 11/4/26 7:17 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    Ed Cryer wrote:
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's gone
    missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I went
    to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handling
    the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webmail
    and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    I found it with an advanced search. It was hundreds of places down from
    the top, not right at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle.
    How did it get there? What did I do?

    Ed

    Did you accidentally hit one of the column headers and sort them not by date? I sometimes
    sort by name.

    --
    Mint 22.3, Thunderbird 153.6.0esr, Firefox 159.0
    Alan K.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 13:16:11 2026
    (FU set ti TB.)
    On 2026/11/4 12:47:36, Alan K. wrote:
    On 11/4/26 7:17 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    Ed Cryer wrote:
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's gone
    missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I went
    to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handling
    the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webmail
    and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    I found it with an advanced search. It was hundreds of places down from
    the top, not right at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle.
    How did it get there? What did I do?

    Ed

    Did you accidentally hit one of the column headers and sort them not by date? I sometimes
    sort by name.

    You beat me to it! If that's the case, the column heading it /is/ sorted
    by will have a ^ or v in it, depending which direction it is sorted in.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    English can be hard. But it can be learned through tough thorough
    thought, though

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 19:23:58 2026
    [Re-direct ignored. I don't subsribe to the Thunderbird group.]

    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    (FU set ti TB.)
    On 2026/11/4 12:47:36, Alan K. wrote:
    On 11/4/26 7:17 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    Ed Cryer wrote:
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's gone
    missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I went >>> to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handling
    the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webmail
    and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    I found it with an advanced search. It was hundreds of places down from
    the top, not right at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle.
    How did it get there? What did I do?

    Ed

    Did you accidentally hit one of the column headers and sort them not by date? I sometimes
    sort by name

    You beat me to it! If that's the case, the column heading it /is/ sorted
    by will have a ^ or v in it, depending which direction it is sorted in.

    Probably (accidentily) sorting on another (than 'Date') column is
    indeed what happened (to Ed).

    BUT, if you have starred messages and (accidentily) click the star in
    the column header, starred messages will be put at the top, but the star
    column header will *not* have a ^ or v in it, because the star column is
    too narrow to display ^/v.

    The peculiar thing is that when you click the star in the column
    headings, the starred messages are put at the top (or bottom) but the
    starred messages are *also* sorted on 'Date' and below the starred
    messages are the non-starred messages, *also* sorted on 'Date'.

    So while the 'Date' column does *not* have ^/v, the messages *are*
    still sorted on 'Date' in two (starred/non-starred) categories.

    Rather unexpected, but sensible behaviour.

    My wife uses this behaviour to put her important messages at the top
    (still sorted by date/time) and less important messages below that (but
    also still sorted by date).

    So she learnt *me* something about computer stuff! I'm afraid I'm
    going to get remembered of that fact for a long, long time! :-)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 5 03:45:09 2026
    On 11/5/2026 3:23 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    [Re-direct ignored. I don't subsribe to the Thunderbird group.]

    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    (FU set ti TB.)
    On 2026/11/4 12:47:36, Alan K. wrote:
    On 11/4/26 7:17 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    Ed Cryer wrote:
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's gone >>>>> missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I went >>>>> to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handling >>>>> the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webmail >>>>> and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    I found it with an advanced search. It was hundreds of places down from >>>> the top, not right at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle.
    How did it get there? What did I do?

    Ed

    Did you accidentally hit one of the column headers and sort them not by date? I sometimes
    sort by name

    You beat me to it! If that's the case, the column heading it /is/ sorted
    by will have a ^ or v in it, depending which direction it is sorted in.

    Probably (accidentily) sorting on another (than 'Date') column is
    indeed what happened (to Ed).

    BUT, if you have starred messages and (accidentily) click the star in
    the column header, starred messages will be put at the top, but the star column header will *not* have a ^ or v in it, because the star column is
    too narrow to display ^/v.

    The peculiar thing is that when you click the star in the column
    headings, the starred messages are put at the top (or bottom) but the
    starred messages are *also* sorted on 'Date' and below the starred
    messages are the non-starred messages, *also* sorted on 'Date'.

    So while the 'Date' column does *not* have ^/v, the messages *are*
    still sorted on 'Date' in two (starred/non-starred) categories.

    Rather unexpected, but sensible behaviour.

    My wife uses this behaviour to put her important messages at the top (still sorted by date/time) and less important messages below that (but
    also still sorted by date).

    So she learnt *me* something about computer stuff! I'm afraid I'm
    going to get remembered of that fact for a long, long time! :-)

    More advanced email softwares have user configurable 2nd, 3rd level sort orders. And not "something reasonable selected by the programmer." But
    it's hard to beat /free/ and readily available.
    --
    Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
    I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
    Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 22:12:28 2026
    On 2026/11/4 19:23:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    [Re-direct ignored. I don't subsribe to the Thunderbird group.]

    (OK. [It's worth taking if you're a TB user.] At least you left it in!)

    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    (FU set ti TB.)
    On 2026/11/4 12:47:36, Alan K. wrote:
    []
    Did you accidentally hit one of the column headers and sort them not by date? I sometimes
    sort by name

    You beat me to it! If that's the case, the column heading it /is/ sorted
    by will have a ^ or v in it, depending which direction it is sorted in.

    Probably (accidentily) sorting on another (than 'Date') column is
    indeed what happened (to Ed).

    BUT, if you have starred messages and (accidentily) click the star in
    the column header, starred messages will be put at the top, but the star column header will *not* have a ^ or v in it, because the star column is
    too narrow to display ^/v.

    Good point.

    The peculiar thing is that when you click the star in the column
    headings, the starred messages are put at the top (or bottom) but the
    starred messages are *also* sorted on 'Date' and below the starred
    messages are the non-starred messages, *also* sorted on 'Date'.

    So while the 'Date' column does *not* have ^/v, the messages *are*
    still sorted on 'Date' in two (starred/non-starred) categories.

    I suspect date is more or less the underlying default, or at least
    something close to it - it will probably determine the order they're
    stored in, as they'll have come in in that order.

    Rather unexpected, but sensible behaviour.

    I think if, for example, you clicked on the Subject or From columns,
    then the posts/emails within each subject or sender grouping will be in
    date order.

    My wife uses this behaviour to put her important messages at the top
    (still sorted by date/time) and less important messages below that (but
    also still sorted by date).

    So she learnt *me* something about computer stuff! I'm afraid I'm
    going to get remembered of that fact for a long, long time! :-)
    :-)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    User Error: Replace user, hit any key to continue.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From dillinger@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 23:03:37 2026
    On 04-11-2026 20:45, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
    On 11/5/2026 3:23 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    [Re-direct ignored. I don't subsribe to the Thunderbird group.]

    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    (FU set ti TB.)
    On 2026/11/4 12:47:36, Alan K. wrote:
    On 11/4/26 7:17 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    Ed Cryer wrote:
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's go
    ne
    missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I
    went
    to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handl
    ing
    the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webm
    ail
    and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    I found it with an advanced search. It was hundreds of places down
    from
    the top, not right at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle.
    How did it get there? What did I do?

    Ed

    Did you accidentally hit one of the column headers and sort them not

    by date?ÿ I sometimes
    sort by name
    ÿ You beat me to it! If that's the case, the column heading it /
    is/
    sorted
    by will have a ^ or v in it, depending which direction it is sorted i
    n.

    ÿÿ Probably (accidentily) sorting on another (than 'Date') c
    olumn is
    indeed what happened (to Ed).

    ÿÿ BUT, if you have starred messages and (accidentily) click
    the star in
    the column header, starred messages will be put at the top, but the st
    ar
    column header will *not* have a ^ or v in it, because the star column
    is
    too narrow to display ^/v.

    ÿÿ The peculiar thing is that when you click the star in the
    column
    headings, the starred messages are put at the top (or bottom) but the
    starred messages are *also* sorted on 'Date' and below the starred
    messages are the non-starred messages, *also* sorted on 'Date'.

    ÿÿ So while the 'Date' column does *not* have ^/v, the messa
    ges *are*
    still sorted on 'Date' in two (starred/non-starred) categories.

    ÿÿ Rather unexpected, but sensible behaviour.

    ÿÿ My wife uses this behaviour to put her important messages
    at the top
    (still sorted by date/time) and less important messages below that (bu
    t
    also still sorted by date).

    ÿÿ So she learnt *me* something about computer stuff! I'm af
    raid I'm
    going to get remembered of that fact for a long, long time! :-)

    More advanced email softwares have user configurable 2nd, 3rd level sor
    t
    orders.ÿ And not "something reasonable selected by the programmer.
    "ÿ But
    it's hard to beat /free/ and readily available.

    Whenever you change the sort order previous sort orders are retained, at
    least a few levels deep, not "something reasonable selected by the
    programmer".

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From dillinger@3:633/10 to All on Wed Nov 4 23:23:39 2026
    On 04-11-2026 23:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    I suspect date is more or less the underlying default, or at least
    something close to it - it will probably determine the order they're
    stored in, as they'll have come in in that order.
    Rather unexpected, but sensible behaviour.
    I think if, for example, you clicked on the Subject or From columns,
    then the posts/emails within each subject or sender grouping will be in
    date order.

    No, read my previous post.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 5 12:43:29 2026
    On 11/5/2026 6:03 AM, dillinger wrote:
    On 04-11-2026 20:45, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
    On 11/5/2026 3:23 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    [Re-direct ignored. I don't subsribe to the Thunderbird group.]

    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    (FU set ti TB.)
    On 2026/11/4 12:47:36, Alan K. wrote:
    On 11/4/26 7:17 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
    Ed Cryer wrote:
    I sent an email from my Outlook account on Betterbird, but it's gone >>>>>>> missing from the Sent items box. I know it was in there because I >>>>>>> went
    to look at it, and it disappeared before my eyes while I was handling >>>>>>> the mouse. I must have hit something accidentally.

    It shows up in other devices' Sent boxes; both in the Outlook webmail >>>>>>> and on my iPad.

    I can't find it in any other Betterbird box.

    Ed

    I found it with an advanced search. It was hundreds of places down >>>>>> from
    the top, not right at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle.
    How did it get there? What did I do?

    Ed

    Did you accidentally hit one of the column headers and sort them not >>>>> by date?ÿ I sometimes
    sort by name
    ÿ You beat me to it! If that's the case, the column heading it /is/
    sorted
    by will have a ^ or v in it, depending which direction it is sorted in. >>>
    ÿÿ Probably (accidentily) sorting on another (than 'Date') column is
    indeed what happened (to Ed).

    ÿÿ BUT, if you have starred messages and (accidentily) click the star in >>> the column header, starred messages will be put at the top, but the star >>> column header will *not* have a ^ or v in it, because the star column is >>> too narrow to display ^/v.

    ÿÿ The peculiar thing is that when you click the star in the column
    headings, the starred messages are put at the top (or bottom) but the
    starred messages are *also* sorted on 'Date' and below the starred
    messages are the non-starred messages, *also* sorted on 'Date'.

    ÿÿ So while the 'Date' column does *not* have ^/v, the messages *are*
    still sorted on 'Date' in two (starred/non-starred) categories.

    ÿÿ Rather unexpected, but sensible behaviour.

    ÿÿ My wife uses this behaviour to put her important messages at the top >>> (still sorted by date/time) and less important messages below that (but
    also still sorted by date).

    ÿÿ So she learnt *me* something about computer stuff! I'm afraid I'm
    going to get remembered of that fact for a long, long time! :-)

    More advanced email softwares have user configurable 2nd, 3rd level sort
    orders.ÿ And not "something reasonable selected by the programmer."ÿ But
    it's hard to beat /free/ and readily available.

    Whenever you change the sort order previous sort orders are retained, at least a few levels deep, not "something reasonable selected by the programmer".

    But, it's not part of the user interface. So, I give this behaviour
    "until someone decides to rewrite it." At which point it will behave differently, and then people will complain.

    And when that happens [1], I have no idea if they'll revert or not.

    Plus, it could be nice to have a predefined sets of sort orders, with
    the 2nd, 3rd level and so forth, and be able to trivially switch be-
    tween them.


    Mozilla wants to to fiddle with this every time I change it. Why?

    [1] Given Mozilla's track record, sometime in the next twenty years,
    maybe?
    --
    Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
    I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
    Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From dillinger@3:633/10 to All on Thu Nov 5 14:35:13 2026
    On 05/11/2026 05:43, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
    On 11/5/2026 6:03 AM, dillinger wrote:
    On 04-11-2026 20:45, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson wrote:
    [...]
    More advanced email softwares have user configurable 2nd, 3rd level sort >>> orders.ÿ And not "something reasonable selected by the programmer."ÿ But >>> it's hard to beat /free/ and readily available.

    Whenever you change the sort order previous sort orders are retained, at
    least a few levels deep, not "something reasonable selected by the
    programmer".

    But, it's not part of the user interface.ÿ So, I give this behaviour
    "until someone decides to rewrite it."ÿ At which point it will behave differently, and then people will complain.

    And when that happens [1], I have no idea if they'll revert or not.

    Plus, it could be nice to have a predefined sets of sort orders, with
    the 2nd, 3rd level and so forth, and be able to trivially switch be-
    tween them.


    Mozilla wants to to fiddle with this every time I change it.ÿ Why?

    [1] Given Mozilla's track record, sometime in the next twenty years,
    maybe?

    It has been like this as long as I can remember, nothing was changed.
    What you propose just adds extra clutter.
    Anyway, beyond the 2nd layer it becomes a useless mess very quickly.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)