I have had Outlook 2021 for some time, but seldom attempted to use it.
When I did, I preferred the 'new' version.
I thought I might try it again, but now it will only open as the
'classic' version, with no option to switch.
Can anyone help?

--
Jim the Geordie

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Sat, 10/31/2026 10:43 AM, Jim the Geordie wrote:

I have had Outlook 2021 for some time, but seldom attempted to use it.
When I did, I preferred the 'new' version.
I thought I might try it again, but now it will only open as the
'classic' version, with no option to switch.
Can anyone help?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/toggle-out-of-the-new-outlook-for-windows

Regedit

Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\Preferences
UseNewOutlook DWORD 1

It would be something like that.

Sometimes "offers" like the toggle switch, are removed by a later
update of the Outlook 2021 product. And that can be the reason
the integration is missing. Or, there could even be a separate
registry entry, that controls whether the "offer toggle" is made visible (see next link).

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/5922178/the-toggle-on-new-outlook-to-go-back-to-old-outloo

"The HideNewOutlookToggle registry key controls visibility of the toggle:

Path: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\Options\General
If HideNewOutlookToggle is set to 1, the toggle is hidden.
Set it to 0 (or delete the value) and restart Outlook to show the toggle again.
"

So, indeed, it's down in the same area of the registry, the option to
put the toggle back in the corner like it was.

Paul


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

Jim the Geordie wrote:

I have had Outlook 2021 for some time, but seldom attempted to use it.
When I did, I preferred the 'new' version.
I thought I might try it again, but now it will only open as the
'classic' version, with no option to switch.
Can anyone help?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/toggle-out-of-the-new-outlook-for-windows

Regedit

Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\Preferences
UseNewOutlook DWORD 1

It would be something like that.

Sometimes "offers" like the toggle switch, are removed by a later
update of the Outlook 2021 product. And that can be the reason
the integration is missing. Or, there could even be a separate
registry entry, that controls whether the "offer toggle" is made visible (see next link).

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/5922178/the-toggle-on-new-outlook-to-go-back-to-old-outloo

"The HideNewOutlookToggle registry key controls visibility of the toggle:

Path: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\Options\General
If HideNewOutlookToggle is set to 1, the toggle is hidden.
Set it to 0 (or delete the value) and restart Outlook to show the toggle again.
"

So, indeed, it's down in the same area of the registry, the option to
put the toggle back in the corner like it was.

Paul

But isn't that deciding which local e-mail client client to use: the
standalone MS Outlook 2021, or new Outlook ("new" is not capitalized,
and considered part of the product name ... until they come out with a
"newer new Outlook" web app). The first is an actual local e-mail
client. The latter is a web app that presents a UI to the MS
Outlook/Hotmail website.

Considering all the deficiencies that Microsoft refuses to address after
years of pleas from their customers, new Outlook is still not as robust
as Outlook 2021. I gave up on new Outlook after a few months when it
became evident Microsoft would not fix problems with it nor consider
RFEs (Requests For Enhancements) to it. However, some users don't need
nor want a local e-mail client as robust as Outlook 2021, or later.
They want something simpler. Seems Microsoft won't address bugs in new
Outlook until they later come out with a new version that adds more
features, not specifically to address old bugs.

"new Outlook" is not a new version of the standalone Outlook 20**
product. They are different programs. Microsoft loves to confabulate
products and services by repurposing the same product title on different products.

That toggle disappeared after about a year of introduction. You had
that long to toggle from Outlook 202* to new Outlook, and back if you
didn't like new Outlook. The article mentions the UseNewOutlook
registry hack. Instead of trying to ressurect the hide/unhide toggle
option (I recall the resurrection failed after some update to Outlook
202*), it disables Outlook 202* from redirecting to new Outlook.

winston usually knows a lot more about all this Outlook client and
service stuff. I thought new Outlook was a poor stab at an e-mail
client, and then realized it was just a web app interface to their
webmail service. I kept hitting bugs or deficiencies, and went back to
the standalone Outlook 20** program.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <11c5i3s$1dv4f$1@dont-email.me>, nospam@needed.invalid
says...

On Sat, 10/31/2026 10:43 AM, Jim the Geordie wrote:

I have had Outlook 2021 for some time, but seldom attempted to use it.
When I did, I preferred the 'new' version.
I thought I might try it again, but now it will only open as the
'classic' version, with no option to switch.
Can anyone help?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/toggle-out-of-the-new-outlook-for-windows

Regedit

Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\Preferences
UseNewOutlook DWORD 1

It would be something like that.

Sometimes "offers" like the toggle switch, are removed by a later
update of the Outlook 2021 product. And that can be the reason
the integration is missing. Or, there could even be a separate
registry entry, that controls whether the "offer toggle" is made visible (see next link).

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/5922178/the-toggle-on-new-outlook-to-go-back-to-old-outloo

"The HideNewOutlookToggle registry key controls visibility of the toggle:

Path: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\Options\General
If HideNewOutlookToggle is set to 1, the toggle is hidden.
Set it to 0 (or delete the value) and restart Outlook to show the toggle again.
"

So, indeed, it's down in the same area of the registry, the option to
put the toggle back in the corner like it was.

Paul

Thanks. I seem to have solved the problem although my Windows 10
registry settings are different.
FWIW in the meanwhile I have discovered Em Client and since I only have
two email addresses, it is free. It does not have the Ad that outlook
has and the look is tidier.
Decisions, decisions :-)

--
Jim the Geordie

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.co.uk> wrote:

Thanks. I seem to have solved the problem although my Windows 10
registry settings are different.
FWIW in the meanwhile I have discovered Em Client and since I only have
two email addresses, it is free. It does not have the Ad that outlook
has and the look is tidier.
Decisions, decisions :-)

The ads you see in [new] Outlook are sponsored ads that Microsoft
deliberately presents in the Inbox. Those are not e-mails at all. They
are not delivered via SMTP, Exchange, or other e-mail transport from the sponsor to your Inbox. Microsoft is paid to show those sponsored ads,
and injects them at their mail server to *pretend* they are e-mails. In
fact, they are in-app ads, not e-mails. Next to those injected ads you
will see an "Ad" icon notifying you those are ads, not e-mails. Below
is an example screenshot of a Microsoft-injected sponsored ad presented
as a fake e-mail:

https://www.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Microsoft-is-displaying-more-ads-in-its-Outlook-app.jpg

Since new Outlook, the UWP (Universal Windows Platform) app is a web app
(an interface to their webmail service, not a full-service standalone client-side only e-mail client), the only way to hide those sponsored ad-injected fake e-mails from Microsoft is to use Focus view. The ads
then show up in the Other tab. Same when you use their webmail service:
Focus view shows the sponsored fake e-mail ads under the Other tab.
Since new Outlook is a web app, it reflects the same options available
in their webmail service. Notice in the above pic that user is using
Focused view mode on his Inbox, so the ads show up under the Other tab. However, other desirable e-mails may also show up only under the Other
tab, so you have to keep monitoring the Other tab to see if Microsoft
moved what is important to you but what Microsoft thought was not
important. If you don't use Focused Inbox view, you see the ads in what
you thought was just an Inbox for e-mails, as in:

https://tinyurl.com/mssponsoredads

Focused Inbox is described at:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/mail/focused-inbox-for-outlook

The problem with Focused Inbox is Microsoft has not clearly published
how they differentiate important e-mails shown in Focused Inbox from
those shown under Other. The sponsored ads go under Other, but what
else? That the article says "The more you use it, the better it gets",
but no mention just what actions you take to reflect importance.

While the standalone Outlook 2*** client-side e-mail *program* (not the
new Outlook UWP web app) also has Focus view, I don't have it enabled.
I don't recall seeing the sponsored fake e-mail ads injected into my
Inbox when using that client. The fake e-mails only appear in a Hotmail account when using their webmail service (using a web browser), or when
using their new Outlook web app. Having Microsoft shoves ads as fake
e-mails into the Inbox, and being unclear just how Focused Inbox view
works, was one of many reasons I dumped their new Outlook web app.

You cannot define server-side filters in your MS account nor define
client-side filters in the new Outlook web app that will move or delete
the injected sponsored ads. No ad blocker can remove these e-mails,
because they were never delivered using e-mail transports. Those ads
were never actually delivered into your Inbox. They are just presented
in the Inbox rather than use some banner or sidebar to show them. Users
are misled they are e-mails. With ad-supported (aka adware) programs
that show ads in banners or sidebars, it is obvious the program is a
platform for delivering ads. The ads are usually retrieved separate
from the e-mail functions, like from external connections to ad servers
or CDNs (Content Delivery Networks) which means they can be blocked by
using DNS services that incorporate ad-blocking capability, or by
proxies, or a local web filtering agent (e.g., Adguard's local filtering proxy). Microsoft was smart enough to realize the only way to ensure
the ads survived to display inside their new Outlook UWP client or in
their Outlook/Hotmail webmail service via web browser was to deliver
them from their mail service. Blocking that source would mean you
couldn't get your e-mails from them.

You need to decide how much you can tolerate of Microsoft injecting ads
into new Outlook or when using their webmail service, and pretending
they are e-mails (well, there is an "Ad" icon alongside each fake e-mail
to let you know they really were not e-mails). Bad enough having to
deal with spam that gets through server-side anti-spam filters,
server-side user-defined filters, client-side filters (I don't recall
new Outlook had any), cleaning out missed spam in the Inbox to only get assaulted by Microsoft with ads they inject that cannot be filtered out.
When I trialed new Outlook, or when using their webmail service via web browser, I had to use Focused Inbox to hide the ads, but other e-mails
would also show up under the Other tab. Having to toggle between
Focused and Other to check the Other tab meant I saw the ads just to see
what, if any, good e-mails Microsoft had put under Other. Much easier
to eliminate the fake e-mail ads by using a different e-mail client
(e.g., Thunderbird, Betterbird, eM Client) to which Microsoft cannot
deliver to present the fake e-mails. I use Outlook 2021, do NOT use
Focused Inbox, and don't recall seeing Microsoft's sponsored ads in that
local client-side e-mail client. Outlook is geared toward their
business market, and I doubt Microsoft wants to rile their biggest
revenue source.

By the way, I used eM Client for about 3 years. At first, they used
Google's Mail API to access Google accounts to sync on e-mail, contacts,
and calendar. However, that required a they have a quota on API calls
to Google, and eM Client kept running into errors when all their
freeloaders, like me, exceeded their quota. You couldn't retrieve any
more e-mails until their daily usage dropped below their quota. The
initial quota with a Google project account looks big, at first, until
you realize every connect counts as a quota hit, and every mail poll
incurred multiple API hits, and multiply by the number of freeloaders of
eM Client. eM Client had to buy more quota. That lasted 3 days, got
exceeded again, and em Client freeloaders could no longer get e-mail
again. Although they had a payware version, to keep paying for more and
more API quota for freeloaders wasn't financially viable, so eM Client
dropped their Google Mail API support to get rid of the need for an API
quota, and moved to just the standard e-mail protocols which meant sync
on just e-mail. That means you'll be using POP, IMAP, and SMTP for
e-mail access, and maybe CalDAV and CardDAV for calendar and contacts
sync (I didn't bother with those after the change since they are 1-way
sync, not 2-way).

Regarding the API exceeded error in eM Client, see:
https://forum.emclient.com/t/exceeded-api-quota-error/49437
That was only an issue if you used Gmail with eM Client, and back when
eM Client was trying to use Google's Mail API to sync on everything, not
just e-mail.

I did run into problems when using eM Client with Hotmail/Outlook.
Don't remember the specifics other than eM Client would stop polling my
MS accounts until I killed and restarted eM Client. The point of using
a client-side e-mail client is to have it running all the time to notify
you when there are newly arrived e-mails, to show reminders for calendar appointments, or send scheduled outbound e-mails. It would get quiet,
too quiet, I'd get suspicious, and kill and restart eM Client to find,
oh look, there are new e-mails.

I didn't care for how eM Client would group e-mails into conversations:
https://forum.emclient.com/t/how-does-em-client-implement-threading-to-construct-a-conversation/100711
Threading multiple e-mails into a conversation by falling back to using
the Subject header should NEVER be used, even if all the other methods
are missing. Everyone that ever sent a "Hello" e-mail would all be
grouped together in one conversation. If the conversations were group
by the presence of the other headers then there is reliability in the construct. If those are all missing, leave them as separate messages.
Never group solely based on Subject.

Then there was waiting forever for eM Client to poll an account while
showing a hazard-tape progress bar.
https://forum.emclient.com/t/hazard-tape-progress-bar-why-does-it-show/96937 If you're slow, and sometimes really slow, at monitoring and viewing new e-mails, you might not mind the long wait to finally completely download
a message after clicking on it despite setting up eM Client to
supposedly fully retrieve full messages with the settings I noted. Does
not appear the issue ever got addressed. Unfortunately the dev team
focuses more on new features than fixing bugs. Their forums are active,
but their dev team doesn't visit there.

Unless you pay for eM Client to get tech support, all you get is their
forum for peer support, but a user community doesn't have the same level
of expertise. I even paid for eM Client to get support, submitted
several tickets, but they never resolved any reported issue. My account
has since expired, so I cannot refer to issues I brought up to them.

I got fed up with the bugs and limitations of eM Client. It is a very
good local e-mail client, but has problems. I went back to the
standalone Outlook 2021 program. new Outlook sucks. Might as well just
use a web browser to connect to the Outlook/Hotmail website.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 10/31/26 1:12 PM, Paul wrote:

On Sat, 10/31/2026 10:43 AM, Jim the Geordie wrote:

I have had Outlook 2021 for some time, but seldom attempted to use it.
When I did, I preferred the 'new' version.
I thought I might try it again, but now it will only open as the
'classic' version, with no option to switch.
Can anyone help?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/toggle-out-of-the-new-outlook-for-windows

Regedit

Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\Preferences
UseNewOutlook DWORD 1

It would be something like that.

Maybe not...
Jim notes the problem is/was resolved, though no info on what was
done(to do so).

It was also unclear which app or program Jim was clicking.
Opening the Outlook new version(when configured with or without a
previously signed on and synced email account) does not open Outlook Classic(Outlook 2016/19/21/24/ and/or M365 Outlook 2610 or earlier)

The above reg key 'UseNewOutlook' key will not be present on Win10/11
with Outlook new or Outlook standalone or Outlook M365 installed. >

Sometimes "offers" like the toggle switch, are removed by a later
update of the Outlook 2021 product. And that can be the reason
the integration is missing. Or, there could even be a separate
registry entry, that controls whether the "offer toggle" is made visible (see next link).

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/5922178/the-toggle-on-new-outlook-to-go-back-to-old-outloo

"The HideNewOutlookToggle registry key controls visibility of the toggle:

Path: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\16.0\Outlook\Options\General
If HideNewOutlookToggle is set to 1, the toggle is hidden.
Set it to 0 (or delete the value) and restart Outlook to show the toggle again.
"

Updates to Outlook 2016 and later don't remove the toggle.
Additionally, the HideNewOutlookToggle key may not be present when
Outlook Classic is or has not been(current) or previously configured to
'use Outlook new'.
>

So, indeed, it's down in the same area of the registry, the option to
put the toggle back in the corner like it was.

The better approach, rather than registry add/toggle..was to first find
the Outlook new app in Settings/Apps/Installed apps.
- choose the correct app(the icon is an envelope with the letter 'O'
and an open flap)
=> Execute in the following order - Terminate, Reset, Uninstall
=> Download Outlook new from the MSFT Store and install it
Note: Outlook new in the MSFT store has the same icon(envelope with
letter O and open flap)...but it is named Outlook for Windows


--
...w­¤?ñ?¤

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <ty3tuiu8bbq5.dlg@v.nguard.lh>, V@nguard.LH says...

Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.co.uk> wrote:

Thanks. I seem to have solved the problem although my Windows 10
registry settings are different.
FWIW in the meanwhile I have discovered Em Client and since I only have two email addresses, it is free. It does not have the Ad that outlook
has and the look is tidier.
Decisions, decisions :-)

The ads you see in [new] Outlook are sponsored ads that Microsoft deliberately presents in the Inbox. Those are not e-mails at all. They
are not delivered via SMTP, Exchange, or other e-mail transport from the sponsor to your Inbox. Microsoft is paid to show those sponsored ads,
and injects them at their mail server to *pretend* they are e-mails. In fact, they are in-app ads, not e-mails. Next to those injected ads you
will see an "Ad" icon notifying you those are ads, not e-mails. Below
is an example screenshot of a Microsoft-injected sponsored ad presented
as a fake e-mail:

https://www.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Microsoft-is-displaying-more-ads-in-its-Outlook-app.jpg

Since new Outlook, the UWP (Universal Windows Platform) app is a web app
(an interface to their webmail service, not a full-service standalone client-side only e-mail client), the only way to hide those sponsored ad-injected fake e-mails from Microsoft is to use Focus view. The ads
then show up in the Other tab. Same when you use their webmail service: Focus view shows the sponsored fake e-mail ads under the Other tab.
Since new Outlook is a web app, it reflects the same options available
in their webmail service. Notice in the above pic that user is using
Focused view mode on his Inbox, so the ads show up under the Other tab. However, other desirable e-mails may also show up only under the Other
tab, so you have to keep monitoring the Other tab to see if Microsoft
moved what is important to you but what Microsoft thought was not
important. If you don't use Focused Inbox view, you see the ads in what
you thought was just an Inbox for e-mails, as in:

https://tinyurl.com/mssponsoredads

Focused Inbox is described at:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/mail/focused-inbox-for-outlook

The problem with Focused Inbox is Microsoft has not clearly published
how they differentiate important e-mails shown in Focused Inbox from
those shown under Other. The sponsored ads go under Other, but what
else? That the article says "The more you use it, the better it gets",
but no mention just what actions you take to reflect importance.

While the standalone Outlook 2*** client-side e-mail *program* (not the

Thanks V
I'll look out for that when my initial 'trial' period runs out.
The reason I am browsing the email market is that although I really like Thunderbird or Betterbird, I do find they both tend to slow my aging m/c
and have a habit of not wanting to come out of minimised if left too
long.

--
Jim the Geordie

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026/11/2 0:16:15, Jim the Geordie wrote:
[]

The reason I am browsing the email market is that although I really like Thunderbird or Betterbird, I do find they both tend to slow my aging m/c
and have a habit of not wanting to come out of minimised if left too
long.

Interesting; TB added in case anyone there knows why (though I think
you've mentioned it there before).

Have you considered just not minimising? I hardly ever do. Mind, I don't
run it full-screen (I don't run _anything_ full-screen apart from one or
two softwares that don't "play nice" unless I do, like Brother's Keeper).

I /have/ found an oddity with TB - if I do a "Switch user", as I do when
the keyboard bug shows itself, TB comes back postage-stamp size. So I
usually close it when I'm going to do that.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

He who prides himself on giving what he thinks the public wants is
often creating a fictitious demand for low standards which he will then satisfy.
- Lord Reith

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 02/11/2026 in message <MPG.4551e6a442e523749896a7@news.eternal-september.org> Jim the Geordie
wrote:

The reason I am browsing the email market is that although I really like >Thunderbird or Betterbird, I do find they both tend to slow my aging m/c
and have a habit of not wanting to come out of minimised if left too
long.

A couple worth trying:

Essential PIM
https://www.epim.com/

eMClient
https://www.emclient.com/

They have a mix of paid/free depending on how many accounts you need.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
will stop making it

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <xn0pwsbuh6hctec00x@news.individual.net>,
jgnewsid@outlook.com says...

On 02/11/2026 in message <MPG.4551e6a442e523749896a7@news.eternal-september.org> Jim the Geordie wrote:

The reason I am browsing the email market is that although I really like >Thunderbird or Betterbird, I do find they both tend to slow my aging m/c >and have a habit of not wanting to come out of minimised if left too
long.

A couple worth trying:

Essential PIM
https://www.epim.com/

eMClient
https://www.emclient.com/

They have a mix of paid/free depending on how many accounts you need.

Thanks Jeff. I am using emclient, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
It seems fine so far. I particularly like how it handles the calendar.
However I had a warning from Vanguard as to the long term prospects when
using Gmail as one of my two accounts. I will give epim a look.

--
Jim the Geordie

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <11c9ii6$2mm9e$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

On 2026/11/2 0:16:15, Jim the Geordie wrote:
[]

The reason I am browsing the email market is that although I really like Thunderbird or Betterbird, I do find they both tend to slow my aging m/c and have a habit of not wanting to come out of minimised if left too
long.

Interesting; TB added in case anyone there knows why (though I think
you've mentioned it there before).

I have mentioed it more than once in the Thunderbird group, but not
found a solution yet. (Reported it too)

Have you considered just not minimising? I hardly ever do. Mind, I don't
run it full-screen (I don't run _anything_ full-screen apart from one or
two softwares that don't "play nice" unless I do, like Brother's Keeper).

You sound like a doctor I had once, who if you said eg "it hurts when I
do this", said "well don't do that" :-)

I /have/ found an oddity with TB - if I do a "Switch user", as I do when
the keyboard bug shows itself, TB comes back postage-stamp size. So I
usually close it when I'm going to do that.

Sometimes when I eventually get it to come out of minimised, I too get a postage stamp in the top left corner that needs to be stretched. Not
ideal and one of the reasons for my post.

--
Jim the Geordie

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

(genealogy removed from followup!)

On 2026/11/2 11:36:59, Jim the Geordie wrote:

In article <11c9ii6$2mm9e$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

[]

Have you considered just not minimising? I hardly ever do. Mind, I don't
run it full-screen (I don't run _anything_ full-screen apart from one or
two softwares that don't "play nice" unless I do, like Brother's Keeper).

You sound like a doctor I had once, who if you said eg "it hurts when I
do this", said "well don't do that" :-)

:-)

I /have/ found an oddity with TB - if I do a "Switch user", as I do when
the keyboard bug shows itself, TB comes back postage-stamp size. So I
usually close it when I'm going to do that.

Sometimes when I eventually get it to come out of minimised, I too get a postage stamp in the top left corner that needs to be stretched. Not
ideal and one of the reasons for my post.

OK, being that doctor again: how about closing rather than minimising?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack
of confidence. D McLeod

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026-11-02 11:36, Jim the Geordie wrote:

You sound like a doctor I had once, who if you said eg "it hurts when I
do this", said "well don't do that" ?

A famous sketch by British TV comedian Tommy Cooper.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk


--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In article <11c9tqa$2qoeh$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

(genealogy removed from followup!)

On 2026/11/2 11:36:59, Jim the Geordie wrote:

In article <11c9ii6$2mm9e$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

[]

Have you considered just not minimising? I hardly ever do. Mind, I don't >> run it full-screen (I don't run _anything_ full-screen apart from one or >> two softwares that don't "play nice" unless I do, like Brother's Keeper).

You sound like a doctor I had once, who if you said eg "it hurts when I
do this", said "well don't do that" :-)

:-)

I /have/ found an oddity with TB - if I do a "Switch user", as I do when >> the keyboard bug shows itself, TB comes back postage-stamp size. So I
usually close it when I'm going to do that.

Sometimes when I eventually get it to come out of minimised, I too get a postage stamp in the top left corner that needs to be stretched. Not
ideal and one of the reasons for my post.

OK, being that doctor again: how about closing rather than minimising?

Usually that's the option although opening the 'other', eg Thunderbird
is usually faster.

--
Jim the Geordie

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 11/2/2026 7:59 AM, Jim the Geordie wrote:

In article <11c9tqa$2qoeh$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

(genealogy removed from followup!)

On 2026/11/2 11:36:59, Jim the Geordie wrote:

In article <11c9ii6$2mm9e$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

[]

Have you considered just not minimising? I hardly ever do. Mind, I don't >>>> run it full-screen (I don't run _anything_ full-screen apart from one or >>>> two softwares that don't "play nice" unless I do, like Brother's Keeper). >>>

You sound like a doctor I had once, who if you said eg "it hurts when I >>> do this", said "well don't do that" :-)

:-)

I /have/ found an oddity with TB - if I do a "Switch user", as I do when >>>> the keyboard bug shows itself, TB comes back postage-stamp size. So I
usually close it when I'm going to do that.

Sometimes when I eventually get it to come out of minimised, I too get a >>> postage stamp in the top left corner that needs to be stretched. Not
ideal and one of the reasons for my post.

OK, being that doctor again: how about closing rather than minimising?

Usually that's the option although opening the 'other', eg Thunderbird
is usually faster.

"Thunderbird or Betterbird, I do find they both tend to slow my aging m/c"

Have we a spec for the hardware on this "aging m/c" ?

https://www.lifewire.com/free-system-information-tools-2625772

https://www.ccleaner.com/speccy/builds

https://download.ccleaner.com/spsetup134.exe

The front page of that, after it scans and runs, gives a summary.

Paul

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026/11/2 12:59:50, Jim the Geordie wrote:

In article <11c9tqa$2qoeh$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

[]

OK, being that doctor again: how about closing rather than minimising?

Usually that's the option although opening the 'other', eg Thunderbird
is usually faster.

I just tried; on this fairly limited laptop (though I suspect it's more
the number of posts/emails that has more effect than the CPUs),
Thunderbird closes more or less instantly, and opens in 5 to 10 seconds.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Sometimes I believe we made up god just to have someone to blame for our mistakes - "Sarah Sidle" (Jorja Fox), CSI

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 11/2/2026 5:09 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2026/11/2 12:59:50, Jim the Geordie wrote:

In article <11c9tqa$2qoeh$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

[]

OK, being that doctor again: how about closing rather than minimising?

Usually that's the option although opening the 'other', eg Thunderbird
is usually faster.

I just tried; on this fairly limited laptop (though I suspect it's more
the number of posts/emails that has more effect than the CPUs),
Thunderbird closes more or less instantly, and opens in 5 to 10 seconds.

It should depend on the size of the profile and the
amount of material that gets parsed at startup.

On Windows, you can use procmon.exe to trace what is
being parsed. On Linux, it would be strace (as it can
indicate file activity), but strace isn't as pretty
as procmon output.

You could turn off GLODA, as that isn't absolutely necessary to
a basic set of functions on the thing. Maybe it's a 32 bit system,
it only has 2GB of RAM, there must be some explanations in there
somewhere. Could be a single core computer, like my laptop.

Paul

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2026/11/3 2:14:26, Paul wrote:

On Mon, 11/2/2026 5:09 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:

On 2026/11/2 12:59:50, Jim the Geordie wrote:

In article <11c9tqa$2qoeh$1@dont-email.me>, G6JPG@255soft.uk says...

[]

OK, being that doctor again: how about closing rather than minimising?

Usually that's the option although opening the 'other', eg Thunderbird
is usually faster.

I just tried; on this fairly limited laptop (though I suspect it's more
the number of posts/emails that has more effect than the CPUs),
Thunderbird closes more or less instantly, and opens in 5 to 10 seconds.

It should depend on the size of the profile and the
amount of material that gets parsed at startup.

On Windows, you can use procmon.exe to trace what is
being parsed. On Linux, it would be strace (as it can
indicate file activity), but strace isn't as pretty
as procmon output.

It's fast enough for me. My
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\thunderbird folder (that's what I
back up, though I think it may include more than one profile - but only
one is of any size) is 731 MBytes. (Yes, the main one is 671 MB.)

You could turn off GLODA, as that isn't absolutely necessary to

I wouldn't know how - but as I say, it's fast enough for me anyway.

a basic set of functions on the thing. Maybe it's a 32 bit system,
it only has 2GB of RAM, there must be some explanations in there
somewhere. Could be a single core computer, like my laptop.

No, it's 64 bit, 7G (? I presume 8 but 1 is graphics? No, that's
apparently 512 MB) DDR4 @ 931 MHz 13-13-13-31, AMD A10-9600P, 4 cores 4 threads.

Paul

John
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I can prove anything with statistics - except the truth.

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

[About Thunderbird startup time:]

It's fast enough for me. My
C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\thunderbird folder (that's what I
back up, though I think it may include more than one profile - but only
one is of any size) is 731 MBytes. (Yes, the main one is 671 MB.)

And who cares (much) about startup time anyway!? We have systems which
can sleep/hibernate, don't we!? :-)

Anyway, my startup time is 2 to 3 seconds, for a 2.25GB profile with
1466 files in 174 folders, so there you go!

[...]

--- PyGate Linux v1.5.19
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)