ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power
issues, especially for USB-C".
By signal degradation, do they not mean the data signal, and if so, why
is that not taken care of by the verification and resending when needed?
The input cable on my device for connecting bare drives (for backup) is
only 6 inches. I would have to do a massive reorganization of the whole
desk to get close to the laptop (which only has 3 usb-A ports (and one C-port). I normally use a hub with a 12-inch cord.
Isn't the hub the same as and just as bad as an extension cable?
Don't most people with laptops that have only 3 or 4 usb ports use a
hub? A non-powered hub?
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power
issues, especially for USB-C".
By signal degradation, do they not mean the data signal,
and if so, why
is that not taken care of by the verification and resending when needed?
The input cable on my device for connecting bare drives (for backup) is
only 6 inches. I would have to do a massive reorganization of the whole
desk to get close to the laptop (which only has 3 usb-A ports (and one >C-port). I normally use a hub with a 12-inch cord.
Isn't the hub the same as and just as bad as an extension cable?
Don't most people with laptops that have only 3 or 4 usb ports use a
hub? A non-powered hub?
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power
issues, especially for USB-C".
By signal degradation, do they not mean the data signal, and if so, why
is that not taken care of by the verification and resending when needed?
The input cable on my device for connecting bare drives (for backup) is
only 6 inches. I would have to do a massive reorganization of the whole
desk to get close to the laptop (which only has 3 usb-A ports (and one C-port). I normally use a hub with a 12-inch cord.
Isn't the hub the same as and just as bad as an extension cable?
Don't most people with laptops that have only 3 or 4 usb ports use a
hub? A non-powered hub?
On Mon, 27 Apr 2026 18:07:34 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power >>issues, especially for USB-C".
What is ASI? Artificial Super Intelligence?
<https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/artificial-superintelligence>
Hint: Thou shalt not abrev.
By signal degradation, do they not mean the data signal,
Yes, depending on the USB-C mutation and what you define as a signal.
For example:
USB 2.0 (via USB-C):
480 Mbps (common on budget phones/charging cables).
USB 3.2 Gen 1 (5Gbps):
5 Gbps (standard for many peripherals).
USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps):
10 Gbps (standard on many modern laptops).
USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20Gbps):
20 Gbps (supported by some high-speed external drives).
USB4/Thunderbolt 3 & 4:
40 Gbps (high-performance docks, monitors, and SSDs).
USB4 Gen 4:
Up to 80 Gbps (emerging standard). ><https://www.onlogic.com/blog/usb-type-c-and-usb-3-1-explained/>
For the various speeds (data rates), there are also cable length
limitations. Too long a cable means the higher speeds don't work
because of distorted waveforms, cable losses, timing issues, etc. For
DC power, increased cable resistance might introduce losses.
and if so, why
is that not taken care of by the verification and resending when needed?
If the errors are caused by too long (or too wrong) a cable, chances
are good that repeating the same data on the same wrong cable is going
to repeat the errors. Using various forms of error correction will
largely eliminate that problem at the cost of additional delays and
the associated throughput reductions.
The input cable on my device for connecting bare drives (for backup) is >>only 6 inches. I would have to do a massive reorganization of the whole >>desk to get close to the laptop (which only has 3 usb-A ports (and one >>C-port). I normally use a hub with a 12-inch cord.
Sorry, no suggestions because you didn't provide any numbers for what
manner of hardware and data protocols you're working with. Of course,
you could just plug in an extension cable and see what happens by
measuring the error rate (assuming your hardware is managed and
provides SNMP info, including data rate).
As long as the extension is
wired correctly, you're unlikely to do any damage.
Isn't the hub the same as and just as bad as an extension cable?
Don't most people with laptops that have only 3 or 4 usb ports use a
hub? A non-powered hub?
USB hub or USB switch? Since it's plugged into a laptop, it's
probably a hub or docking station. I don't know about "most people"
but I use USB mostly for flash drives and mice. I'm not an Apple
computer user and therefore don't have any Thunderbolt hardware.
USB hub, although the one currently in use, made by Sabrent with 4
output ports, has an on-off switch for each port. I dont' think that
makes it a USB switch, though.
Yeah, I use it for the mouse, an external keyboard, and flashdrives, but lately for the bare drive I use for imaging. Amazon doesn't sell the connection device anymore, but it has its own power supply. And I'm
using USB-A so I'll give it a try with a 6" extension.
In sci.electronics.repair, on Mon, 27 Apr 2026 15:56:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Apr 2026 18:07:34 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>
wrote:
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power
issues, especially for USB-C".
What is ASI? Artificial Super Intelligence?
Artificial Semi-Intelligence!
<https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/artificial-superintelligence>
Hint: Thou shalt not abrev.
By signal degradation, do they not mean the data signal,
Yes, depending on the USB-C mutation and what you define as a signal.
For example:
USB 2.0 (via USB-C):
480 Mbps (common on budget phones/charging cables).
USB 3.2 Gen 1 (5Gbps):
5 Gbps (standard for many peripherals).
USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10Gbps):
10 Gbps (standard on many modern laptops).
USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20Gbps):
20 Gbps (supported by some high-speed external drives).
USB4/Thunderbolt 3 & 4:
40 Gbps (high-performance docks, monitors, and SSDs).
USB4 Gen 4:
Up to 80 Gbps (emerging standard).
<https://www.onlogic.com/blog/usb-type-c-and-usb-3-1-explained/>
For the various speeds (data rates), there are also cable length
limitations. Too long a cable means the higher speeds don't work
because of distorted waveforms, cable losses, timing issues, etc. For
DC power, increased cable resistance might introduce losses.
and if so, why
is that not taken care of by the verification and resending when needed?
If the errors are caused by too long (or too wrong) a cable, chances
are good that repeating the same data on the same wrong cable is going
to repeat the errors. Using various forms of error correction will
largely eliminate that problem at the cost of additional delays and
the associated throughput reductions.
Okay.
The input cable on my device for connecting bare drives (for backup) is
only 6 inches. I would have to do a massive reorganization of the whole >>> desk to get close to the laptop (which only has 3 usb-A ports (and one
C-port). I normally use a hub with a 12-inch cord.
Sorry, no suggestions because you didn't provide any numbers for what
manner of hardware and data protocols you're working with. Of course,
you could just plug in an extension cable and see what happens by
measuring the error rate (assuming your hardware is managed and
provides SNMP info, including data rate).
It might provide SNMP info. I'll look, or I'll try to add it.
As long as the extension is
wired correctly, you're unlikely to do any damage.
Isn't the hub the same as and just as bad as an extension cable?
Don't most people with laptops that have only 3 or 4 usb ports use a
hub? A non-powered hub?
USB hub or USB switch? Since it's plugged into a laptop, it's
probably a hub or docking station. I don't know about "most people"
but I use USB mostly for flash drives and mice. I'm not an Apple
computer user and therefore don't have any Thunderbolt hardware.
USB hub, although the one currently in use, made by Sabrent with 4
output ports, has an on-off switch for each port. I dont' think that
makes it a USB switch, though.
Yeah, I use it for the mouse, an external keyboard, and flashdrives, but lately for the bare drive I use for imaging. Amazon doesn't sell the connection device anymore, but it has its own power supply. And I'm
using USB-A so I'll give it a try with a 6" extension.
micky wrote:
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power
issues, especially for USB-C".
Higher spec cables often contain chips at each end, to tell what it's connected to what speed/power it can handle, if you whack an extension on the end, that information will be wrong and you risk sending over 100 watts of power down a cable not rated for it ...
micky wrote:
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power
issues, especially for USB-C".
Higher spec cables often contain chips at each end, to tell what it's connected to what speed/power it can handle, if you whack an extension
on the end, that information will be wrong and you risk sending over 100 watts of power down a cable not rated for it ...
If you know much about electricity, you know that watts/amps don't flow
unless there's some kind of load.
Sure, current is pulled rather than pushed, but the comms between source
and sink device can set the supply to 48V which most devices won't be
ready for.
Also, the damaged chip is likely to be non-functional, and the power is
limited to 60W.
Latest USB PD3.1 spec caters for up to 240W
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
[...]
USB hub, although the one currently in use, made by Sabrent with 4
output ports, has an on-off switch for each port. I dont' think that
makes it a USB switch, though.
Yeah, I use it for the mouse, an external keyboard, and flashdrives, but
lately for the bare drive I use for imaging. Amazon doesn't sell the
connection device anymore, but it has its own power supply. And I'm
using USB-A so I'll give it a try with a 6" extension.
Just connect the fast stuff, i.e. the disk drive, directly to the
laptop and connect the slow stuff, i.e. keyboard and mouse and if need
be the USB memory sticks, to the hub. You can use extension cables for
the keyboard and mouse, but I would use no or only a short extension
cable for the USB memory sticks.
FWIW, I also have a laptop which has only 3 USB ports, but I do not
use a hub. If I'm out of ports for a certain task, I just disconnect the >mouse and use the built-in touchpad.
micky wrote:
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power
issues, especially for USB-C".
Higher spec cables often contain chips at each end, to tell what it's >connected to what speed/power it can handle, if you whack an extension
on the end, that information will be wrong and you risk sending over 100 >watts of power down a cable not rated for it ...
In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Tue, 28 Apr 2026 08:17:04 +0100, Andy
Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
micky wrote:
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power
issues, especially for USB-C".
Higher spec cables often contain chips at each end, to tell what it's >connected to what speed/power it can handle, if you whack an extension
on the end, that information will be wrong and you risk sending over 100 >watts of power down a cable not rated for it ...
Okay, that sounds like something I want to avoid.
Off-topic, turned on the upstairs laptop yesterday, and couldn't do
anything. Kept getting menus. Restarted 3 times
Today I looked at it in a fresh light and figured out that my mouse keys
were reversed. I DID NOT TOUCH them. I wasn't even in Settings. Some
weird force must have changed it.
On 30/04/2026 6:09 pm, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:24:45 -0400When reading, I had thought "Ghost" but sure, "poltergeist" but even >"polterguest" works, too. ;-P
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Tue, 28 Apr 2026 08:17:04 +0100, Andy
Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
micky wrote:
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power >>>>> issues, especially for USB-C".
Higher spec cables often contain chips at each end, to tell what it's
connected to what speed/power it can handle, if you whack an extension >>>> on the end, that information will be wrong and you risk sending over 100 >>>> watts of power down a cable not rated for it ...
Okay, that sounds like something I want to avoid.
Off-topic, turned on the upstairs laptop yesterday, and couldn't do
anything. Kept getting menus. Restarted 3 times
Today I looked at it in a fresh light and figured out that my mouse keys >>> were reversed. I DID NOT TOUCH them. I wasn't even in Settings. Some
weird force must have changed it.
A polterguest
\In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Thu, 30 Apr 2026 19:39:35 +1000, Daniel70 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
On 30/04/2026 6:09 pm, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:24:45 -0400When reading, I had thought "Ghost" but sure, "poltergeist" but even
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-11, on Tue, 28 Apr 2026 08:17:04 +0100, Andy
Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
micky wrote:
ASI says that USB extension cords "risk signal degradation and power >>>>>> issues, especially for USB-C".
Higher spec cables often contain chips at each end, to tell what it's >>>>> connected to what speed/power it can handle, if you whack an extension >>>>> on the end, that information will be wrong and you risk sending over 100 >>>>> watts of power down a cable not rated for it ...
Okay, that sounds like something I want to avoid.
Off-topic, turned on the upstairs laptop yesterday, and couldn't do
anything. Kept getting menus. Restarted 3 times
Today I looked at it in a fresh light and figured out that my mouse keys >>>> were reversed. I DID NOT TOUCH them. I wasn't even in Settings. Some >>>> weird force must have changed it.
A polterguest
"polterguest" works, too. ;-P
I wonder what else it's doing.
If you think of an Open Circuit as a load of Infinite Resistance, there
IS an infinitesimally small amount to Current flowing .... but, in any
case, Watts don't flow, they are just dissipated. ;-P
Also, the damaged chip is likely to be non-functional, and the power is
limited to 60W.
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 19:35:02 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
If you think of an Open Circuit as a load of Infinite Resistance, there
IS an infinitesimally small amount to Current flowing .... but, in any
case, Watts don't flow, they are just dissipated. ;-P
Yes, there will be a little bit of current flowing as soon as the power source is connected, because of capacitance.
On 2026-04-30 20:08, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 30 Apr 2026 19:35:02 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
If you think of an Open Circuit as a load of Infinite Resistance, there
IS an infinitesimally small amount to Current flowing .... but, in any
case, Watts don't flow, they are just dissipated. ;-P
Yes, there will be a little bit of current flowing as soon as the power
source is connected, because of capacitance.
Not his point :-)
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