• Windows 10 update KB5073724

    From John C.@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 03:01:12 2026
    This morning, I was surprised to see that I needed to reboot my W10 Pro computer in order to install an update. However, there it was.

    Apparently, the update removes some old modem drivers and installs some
    new Secure Boot certificates, as the older certificates hav recently
    expired. The update is more fully described here:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-13-2026-kb5073724-os-builds-19045-6809-and-19044-6809-bd960b49-050e-432f-a9d5-2454cb377fed

    Here's what it says: ________________________________________________________________________
    The following is a summary of the issues that this update addresses when
    you install this update. If there are new features, it lists them as
    well. The bold text within the brackets indicates the item or area of
    the change we are documenting.

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys
    (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer
    work in Windows.

    [Secure Boot] Starting with this update, Windows quality updates
    include a subset of high confidence device targeting data that
    identifies devices eligible to automatically receive new Secure Boot certificates. Devices will receive the new certificates only after demonstrating sufficient successful update signals, ensuring a safe and
    phased deployment.

    [WinSqlite3.dll] Fixed: The Windows core component, WinSqlite3.dll,
    has been updated. Previously, some security software might have detected
    this component as vulnerable.

    Note: WinSqlite3.dll is a separate component from sqlite3.dll, which
    is found in application-specific directories and is not a Windows
    component. If security applications continue to detect sqlite3.dll as vulnerable, contact the developer of the app using sqlite3.dll for an
    update. If sqlite3.dll is being used by a Microsoft app, install the
    latest version of the app from the Microsoft Store. ________________________________________________________________________

    Some people reported experiencing problems after installing the update:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/1qc0860/microsoft_releases_windows_10_kb5073724_extended/

    I allowed the update and, so far, have experienced no problems. Knock on
    wood.

    --
    John C. I filter crossposts, various trolls & dizum.com. Doing this
    makes this newsgroup easier to read & more on-topic. Take back the tech companies from India & industry from China.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John K.Eason@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 12:11:00 2026
    In article <10kd5pr$1i8dr$1@dont-email.me>, r9jmg0@yahoo.com (John C.) wrote:

    This morning, I was surprised to see that I needed to reboot my W10
    Pro computer in order to install an update. However, there it was.
    ...

    That's just after the normal monthly update which is on the second Tuesday of the
    month. It always requires a reboot here.

    --
    Regards
    John

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From VanguardLH@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 10:29:12 2026
    "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:

    This morning, I was surprised to see that I needed to reboot my W10 Pro computer in order to install an update. However, there it was.

    Apparently, the update removes some old modem drivers and installs some
    new Secure Boot certificates, as the older certificates hav recently
    expired. The update is more fully described here:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-13-2026-kb5073724-os-builds-19045-6809-and-19044-6809-bd960b49-050e-432f-a9d5-2454cb377fed

    Here's what it says: ________________________________________________________________________
    The following is a summary of the issues that this update addresses when
    you install this update. If there are new features, it lists them as
    well. The bold text within the brackets indicates the item or area of
    the change we are documenting.

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer
    work in Windows.

    [Secure Boot] Starting with this update, Windows quality updates
    include a subset of high confidence device targeting data that
    identifies devices eligible to automatically receive new Secure Boot certificates. Devices will receive the new certificates only after demonstrating sufficient successful update signals, ensuring a safe and phased deployment.

    [WinSqlite3.dll] Fixed: The Windows core component, WinSqlite3.dll,
    has been updated. Previously, some security software might have detected
    this component as vulnerable.

    Note: WinSqlite3.dll is a separate component from sqlite3.dll, which
    is found in application-specific directories and is not a Windows
    component. If security applications continue to detect sqlite3.dll as vulnerable, contact the developer of the app using sqlite3.dll for an
    update. If sqlite3.dll is being used by a Microsoft app, install the
    latest version of the app from the Microsoft Store. ________________________________________________________________________

    Some people reported experiencing problems after installing the update:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/1qc0860/microsoft_releases_windows_10_kb5073724_extended/

    I allowed the update and, so far, have experienced no problems. Knock on wood.

    My concern is about the Secure Boot certificates. The KB article says
    the certs will roll out based on criteria of eligible devices. So, this
    update doesn't have any certs. Those come later.

    The eligibility was not well defined. It's based on some "signals" in
    further updates. Since Secure Boot is not currently enabled on my
    computer, maybe I would be considered ineligible, and won't get the
    certs in later updates. I am enrolled in ESU (Extended Service Updates)
    which ends October 2026.

    I was planning on upgrading from Windows 10 to 11. TPM and Secure Boot
    would get enabled in the BIOS before installing Windows 11, and
    hopefully Windows 10 would get the new certs after the old ones expire. However, according to expirations listed at:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/windows-secure-boot-certificate-expiration-and-ca-updates-7ff40d33-95dc-4c3c-8725-a9b95457578e

    Microsoft Corporation KEK CA 2011
    June 2026
    Signs updates to DB and DBX.

    Microsoft Windows Production PCA 2011
    Oct 2026
    Used for signing the Windows boot loader.

    Microsoft UEFI CA 2011*
    June 2026
    Signs third-party boot loaders and EFI applications.

    Microsoft UEFI CA 2011*
    June 2026
    Signs third-party option ROMs

    I don't what "DB and DBX" means other than some database, but what use I
    don't know. The boot loader for Windows seems the most important cert
    update as the UEFI won't load it without a proper cert if Secure Boot is enabled.

    So, maybe I should figure out how to install Windows 11 without Secure
    Boot enabled, and forego any security therefrom. I installed and tested Windows 11 Pro as a guest OS inside a virtual machine using Rufus to
    eliminate the TPM, Secure Boot, and MS account requirements. That
    worked, so maybe I'll do that for the Windows 11 upgrade in the real
    computer.

    As for the reddit folks saying there are problems with this update:

    - Breaks the taskbar
    Unclear what "break" means. Mine still works after the update.

    - Breaks functionality of the windows button on my keyboard
    My Winkey still works.

    - Made some apps very slow (even apps that should be very stable start
    "Not responding" and never close)
    Oh, some apps. If the poster knew that, he'd also know which ones.

    - prevents my machine from fully restarting
    What would be partial restarting? My reboots okay.

    - my (important) Caller-ID application stopped working.
    Probably due to the update removing old modem drivers. My guess is
    that user has an analog modem for faxing, and maybe calling. No
    mention he visited the hardware maker's website to get drivers. He
    said he uninstalled the update, and his modem worked again. So,
    install the update, and reinstall the modem drivers. If his modem is
    so old that the maker no longer has drivers, well, he could get a new
    dial-up modem. RS-232 modems are harder to find, and we don't know if
    he uses an external modem to a serial port, or a USB modem, or a
    daughtercard in a mobo slot.

    Those folks could revert to the prior state using their image backups.
    Oops, there's another deer caught in headlights. System Restore should
    work, too, since Windows updates saves a restore point before installing
    an update.

    It isn't just this update. Any Windows, program, app, or driver update
    can cause problems. Be prepared BEFORE updating. I rely on image
    backups to restore. System Restore is a bit iffy.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ...w¡ñ?±?ñ@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 10:25:47 2026
    John C. wrote on 1/16/2026 4:01 AM:
    This morning, I was surprised to see that I needed to reboot my W10 Pro computer in order to install an update. However, there it was.

    Apparently, the update removes some old modem drivers and installs some
    new Secure Boot certificates, as the older certificates hav recently
    expired. The update is more fully described here:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-13-2026-kb5073724-os-builds-19045-6809-and-19044-6809-bd960b49-050e-432f-a9d5-2454cb377fed

    Here's what it says: ________________________________________________________________________
    The following is a summary of the issues that this update addresses when
    you install this update. If there are new features, it lists them as
    well. The bold text within the brackets indicates the item or area of
    the change we are documenting.

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer
    work in Windows.

    [Secure Boot] Starting with this update, Windows quality updates
    include a subset of high confidence device targeting data that
    identifies devices eligible to automatically receive new Secure Boot certificates. Devices will receive the new certificates only after demonstrating sufficient successful update signals, ensuring a safe and phased deployment.

    [WinSqlite3.dll] Fixed: The Windows core component, WinSqlite3.dll,
    has been updated. Previously, some security software might have detected
    this component as vulnerable.

    Note: WinSqlite3.dll is a separate component from sqlite3.dll, which
    is found in application-specific directories and is not a Windows
    component. If security applications continue to detect sqlite3.dll as vulnerable, contact the developer of the app using sqlite3.dll for an
    update. If sqlite3.dll is being used by a Microsoft app, install the
    latest version of the app from the Microsoft Store. ________________________________________________________________________

    Some people reported experiencing problems after installing the update:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/1qc0860/microsoft_releases_windows_10_kb5073724_extended/

    I allowed the update and, so far, have experienced no problems. Knock on wood.


    Two updates for Win10 in January for ESU enrolled devices.
    Monthly Security which also deployed the SafeOS/Windows Recovery update

    Restart necessary for the former.

    Also both installed without issue on a ancient ~11 yr old Surface
    3(Costco, original as-shipped in 2015 with Win 8.1 Home) now running W10
    Pro 22H2 with ESU.

    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Jim the Geordie@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 18:42:38 2026
    In article <10kdsat$1s3an$1@dont-email.me>, winstonmvp@gmail.com says...

    John C. wrote on 1/16/2026 4:01 AM:
    This morning, I was surprised to see that I needed to reboot my W10 Pro computer in order to install an update. However, there it was.

    Apparently, the update removes some old modem drivers and installs some
    new Secure Boot certificates, as the older certificates hav recently expired. The update is more fully described here:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-13-2026-kb5073724-os-builds-19045-6809-and-19044-6809-bd960b49-050e-432f-a9d5-2454cb377fed

    Here's what it says: ________________________________________________________________________ The following is a summary of the issues that this update addresses when you install this update. If there are new features, it lists them as
    well. The bold text within the brackets indicates the item or area of
    the change we are documenting.

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer work in Windows.

    <snip>

    I allowed the update and, so far, have experienced no problems. Knock on wood.


    Same here. I didn't know it had happened until I checked.

    Dell Inspiron 560
    Originally installed as Windows 7 Home Premium in 2015
    Updated to Windows 10 several times, latterly in 2021
    Ver 22H2 with ESU.

    --
    Jim the Geordie

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 22:43:12 2026
    On 2026/1/16 11:1:12, John C. wrote:

    []

    Here's what it says:

    []

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys

    (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longe
    r
    work in Windows.

    []

    I fail to see any point in removing drivers, and thus killing equipment;
    what is the justification?

    (Not that I've used a MoDem - other than the ones built into my "router"
    - for years; just as a point of principle.)

    If drivers are _replaced_, that's a different matter.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    aibohphobia, n., The fear of palindromes.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From VanguardLH@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 18:21:33 2026
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    On 2026/1/16 11:1:12, John C. wrote:

    []

    Here's what it says:

    []

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys
    (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer
    work in Windows.

    []

    I fail to see any point in removing drivers, and thus killing equipment;
    what is the justification?

    (Not that I've used a MoDem - other than the ones built into my "router"
    - for years; just as a point of principle.)

    If drivers are _replaced_, that's a different matter.

    If the drivers are no longer supported by the hardware maker, Microsoft
    doesn't want to be doling out or supporting old and possibly bad
    drivers. They only distribute the drivers. They don't write them. The hardware might still be working, but that doesn't mean Microsoft wants
    to proliferate bad or unsupported drivers for that still-working
    hardware.

    The agrsm[64].sys, I guessing are for some Agere hardware. Agere went
    defunct back in 2007. Merged into LSI Corp who went defunct in 2014.
    Acquired by Avago Tech in 2016, rebranded to Broadcom. Good luck
    finding the drivers there.

    Despite Microsoft removed them, you could reinstall them if you still
    had the media (e.g., CD or floppy) that came with the product. Or get
    them from the hardware maker, but I doubt Broadcom has them.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 00:56:53 2026
    On 2026/1/17 0:21:33, VanguardLH wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    On 2026/1/16 11:1:12, John C. wrote:

    []

    Here's what it says:

    []

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys
    (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer >>> work in Windows.

    []

    I fail to see any point in removing drivers, and thus killing equipment;
    what is the justification?

    (Not that I've used a MoDem - other than the ones built into my "router"
    - for years; just as a point of principle.)

    If drivers are _replaced_, that's a different matter.

    If the drivers are no longer supported by the hardware maker, Microsoft doesn't want to be doling out or supporting old and possibly bad
    drivers. They only distribute the drivers. They don't write them. The hardware might still be working, but that doesn't mean Microsoft wants
    to proliferate bad or unsupported drivers for that still-working
    hardware.

    There's a difference between not proliferating them, and actively
    withdrawing them.

    The agrsm[64].sys, I guessing are for some Agere hardware. Agere went defunct back in 2007. Merged into LSI Corp who went defunct in 2014. Acquired by Avago Tech in 2016, rebranded to Broadcom. Good luck
    finding the drivers there.

    Despite Microsoft removed them, you could reinstall them if you still
    had the media (e.g., CD or floppy) that came with the product. Or get
    them from the hardware maker, but I doubt Broadcom has them.

    As I said, I'm not using any of the affected hardware; it's more the
    principle.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    A biochemist walks into a student bar and says to the barman: "I'd like
    a pint of adenosine triphosphate, please."
    "Certainly," says the barman, "that'll be ATP."
    (Quoted in) The Independent, 2013-7-13

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ...w¡ñ?±?ñ@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 18:44:37 2026
    VanguardLH wrote on 1/16/2026 5:21 PM:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    I fail to see any point in removing drivers, and thus killing equipment;
    what is the justification?


    If the drivers are no longer supported by the hardware maker, Microsoft doesn't want to be doling out or supporting old and possibly bad
    drivers. They only distribute the drivers. They don't write them. The hardware might still be working, but that doesn't mean Microsoft wants
    to proliferate bad or unsupported drivers for that still-working
    hardware.

    Security Vulnerability:
    The primary reason was a severe privilege escalation flaw
    (CVE-2025-24990) in the Agere modem driver, which was present across all Windows versions.

    Legacy Code:
    The driver was outdated, predating modern security practices, making it
    a significant systemic risk.

    Microsoft's Action:
    Instead of patching the risky legacy component, Microsoft chose to
    remove it entirely from Windows.
    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From VanguardLH@3:633/10 to All on Fri Jan 16 21:22:45 2026
    VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

    "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:

    This morning, I was surprised to see that I needed to reboot my W10 Pro
    computer in order to install an update. However, there it was.

    Apparently, the update removes some old modem drivers and installs some
    new Secure Boot certificates, as the older certificates hav recently
    expired. The update is more fully described here:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-13-2026-kb5073724-os-builds-19045-6809-and-19044-6809-bd960b49-050e-432f-a9d5-2454cb377fed

    Here's what it says:
    ________________________________________________________________________
    The following is a summary of the issues that this update addresses when
    you install this update. If there are new features, it lists them as
    well. The bold text within the brackets indicates the item or area of
    the change we are documenting.

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys
    (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer
    work in Windows.

    [Secure Boot] Starting with this update, Windows quality updates
    include a subset of high confidence device targeting data that
    identifies devices eligible to automatically receive new Secure Boot
    certificates. Devices will receive the new certificates only after
    demonstrating sufficient successful update signals, ensuring a safe and
    phased deployment.

    [WinSqlite3.dll] Fixed: The Windows core component, WinSqlite3.dll,
    has been updated. Previously, some security software might have detected
    this component as vulnerable.

    Note: WinSqlite3.dll is a separate component from sqlite3.dll, which
    is found in application-specific directories and is not a Windows
    component. If security applications continue to detect sqlite3.dll as
    vulnerable, contact the developer of the app using sqlite3.dll for an
    update. If sqlite3.dll is being used by a Microsoft app, install the
    latest version of the app from the Microsoft Store.
    ________________________________________________________________________

    Some people reported experiencing problems after installing the update:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/1qc0860/microsoft_releases_windows_10_kb5073724_extended/

    I allowed the update and, so far, have experienced no problems. Knock on
    wood.

    My concern is about the Secure Boot certificates. The KB article says
    the certs will roll out based on criteria of eligible devices. So, this update doesn't have any certs. Those come later.

    The eligibility was not well defined. It's based on some "signals" in further updates. Since Secure Boot is not currently enabled on my
    computer, maybe I would be considered ineligible, and won't get the
    certs in later updates. I am enrolled in ESU (Extended Service Updates) which ends October 2026.

    I was planning on upgrading from Windows 10 to 11. TPM and Secure Boot
    would get enabled in the BIOS before installing Windows 11, and
    hopefully Windows 10 would get the new certs after the old ones expire. However, according to expirations listed at:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/windows-secure-boot-certificate-expiration-and-ca-updates-7ff40d33-95dc-4c3c-8725-a9b95457578e

    Microsoft Corporation KEK CA 2011
    June 2026
    Signs updates to DB and DBX.

    Microsoft Windows Production PCA 2011
    Oct 2026
    Used for signing the Windows boot loader.

    Microsoft UEFI CA 2011*
    June 2026
    Signs third-party boot loaders and EFI applications.

    Microsoft UEFI CA 2011*
    June 2026
    Signs third-party option ROMs

    I don't what "DB and DBX" means other than some database, but what use I don't know. The boot loader for Windows seems the most important cert
    update as the UEFI won't load it without a proper cert if Secure Boot is enabled.

    So, maybe I should figure out how to install Windows 11 without Secure
    Boot enabled, and forego any security therefrom. I installed and tested Windows 11 Pro as a guest OS inside a virtual machine using Rufus to eliminate the TPM, Secure Boot, and MS account requirements. That
    worked, so maybe I'll do that for the Windows 11 upgrade in the real computer.

    As for the reddit folks saying there are problems with this update:

    - Breaks the taskbar
    Unclear what "break" means. Mine still works after the update.

    - Breaks functionality of the windows button on my keyboard
    My Winkey still works.

    - Made some apps very slow (even apps that should be very stable start
    "Not responding" and never close)
    Oh, some apps. If the poster knew that, he'd also know which ones.

    - prevents my machine from fully restarting
    What would be partial restarting? My reboots okay.

    - my (important) Caller-ID application stopped working.
    Probably due to the update removing old modem drivers. My guess is
    that user has an analog modem for faxing, and maybe calling. No
    mention he visited the hardware maker's website to get drivers. He
    said he uninstalled the update, and his modem worked again. So,
    install the update, and reinstall the modem drivers. If his modem is
    so old that the maker no longer has drivers, well, he could get a new
    dial-up modem. RS-232 modems are harder to find, and we don't know if
    he uses an external modem to a serial port, or a USB modem, or a
    daughtercard in a mobo slot.

    Those folks could revert to the prior state using their image backups.
    Oops, there's another deer caught in headlights. System Restore should
    work, too, since Windows updates saves a restore point before installing
    an update.

    It isn't just this update. Any Windows, program, app, or driver update
    can cause problems. Be prepared BEFORE updating. I rely on image
    backups to restore. System Restore is a bit iffy.

    Well, I did encounter an anomaly, but it may incidental. After a cold
    boot, my video was at much lower resolution (1280x1024). I rebooted a
    couple times more, let it boot into Windows, and restarted, but was
    still at a low resolution. The card and monitor should be 2560x1440. Reinstalled the video driver, and was 2560x1440 after a reboot.

    Can't say this was caused by this update. I was putzing with memory
    module configuration. When I ran the video driver installer, it
    reported the video card did not start on the prior reboot, and had me
    fill out a report to send to AMD. I'm guessing the onboard video in the
    CPU got used hence the lower resolution. That's why I checked BIOS to
    ensure the primary video was set to PCIe, and not onboard. In fact, I
    changed to from PCIe to onboard back to PCIe just to ensure the setting
    got stepped on. No joy until I reinstalled the video driver, and
    another reboot. Guess my computer decided I got too complacent
    regarding its care. Feed me, feed me. Possibly the new update. It's
    getting to be all FM: Fucking Magic.

    Didn't anyone else reporting KB5073724 cause a video problem, so it is
    probably an incidental problem. Sure woke we up.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 00:16:39 2026
    On Fri, 1/16/2026 5:43 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/1/16 11:1:12, John C. wrote:

    []

    Here's what it says:

    []

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys
    (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer
    work in Windows.

    []

    I fail to see any point in removing drivers, and thus killing equipment;
    what is the justification?

    (Not that I've used a MoDem - other than the ones built into my "router"
    - for years; just as a point of principle.)

    If drivers are _replaced_, that's a different matter.


    When this happens, these are "exploit-able" drivers, and
    a number of things fall into that pool.

    https://www.fortiguard.com/encyclopedia/ips/59929

    "Broadcom.AGRSM64.sys.RTLCopyMemory.Privilege.Elevation"

    A notification popped up and asked me to remove an Asus
    driver for their hardware monitoring program. I didn't even
    know the driver was still there (as I'd used Programs and
    Features to remove it years ago).

    Paul

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 07:30:13 2026
    On 2026/1/17 1:44:37, ...w­¤?ñ?¤ wrote:
    []

    Security Vulnerability:
    The primary reason was a severe privilege escalation flaw
    (CVE-2025-24990) in the Agere modem driver, which was present across al
    l
    Windows versions.

    Legacy Code:
    The driver was outdated, predating modern security practices, making
    it
    a significant systemic risk.

    Microsoft's Action:
    Instead of patching the risky legacy component, Microsoft chose to
    remove it entirely from Windows.

    Surely it'd be better to pop up a warning, giving the user the _option_
    of removing the affected driver(s) - or, even, the option of keeping it
    (making removal the default). Rather than just killing it.

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "Look, if it'll help you to do what I tell you, baby, imagine that I've
    got a blaster ray in my hand." "Uh - you _have_ got a blaster ray in
    your hand." "So you shouldn't have to tax your imagination too hard."
    (Link episode)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From VanguardLH@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 02:03:52 2026
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    On 2026/1/17 1:44:37, ...w­¤?ñ?¤ wrote:
    []

    Security Vulnerability:
    The primary reason was a severe privilege escalation flaw
    (CVE-2025-24990) in the Agere modem driver, which was present across all
    Windows versions.

    Legacy Code:
    The driver was outdated, predating modern security practices, making it >> a significant systemic risk.

    Microsoft's Action:
    Instead of patching the risky legacy component, Microsoft chose to
    remove it entirely from Windows.

    Surely it'd be better to pop up a warning, giving the user the _option_
    of removing the affected driver(s) - or, even, the option of keeping it (making removal the default). Rather than just killing it.

    They know what is best for you.
    Mom won't let you get a BB gun.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From ...w¡ñ?±?ñ@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 01:12:46 2026
    J. P. Gilliver wrote on 1/17/2026 12:30 AM:
    On 2026/1/17 1:44:37, ...w­¤?ñ?¤ wrote:
    []

    Security Vulnerability:
    The primary reason was a severe privilege escalation flaw
    (CVE-2025-24990) in the Agere modem driver, which was present across all
    Windows versions.

    Legacy Code:
    The driver was outdated, predating modern security practices, making it >> a significant systemic risk.

    Microsoft's Action:
    Instead of patching the risky legacy component, Microsoft chose to
    remove it entirely from Windows.

    Surely it'd be better to pop up a warning, giving the user the _option_
    of removing the affected driver(s) - or, even, the option of keeping it (making removal the default). Rather than just killing it.


    There's no 'surely' in this case.

    MSFT has never operated from a baby-sitting mindset to meet the need of
    every user.
    - items have been removed and deprecated and complained or agreed upon
    for decades.
    As noted, by a variety of different sources since Windows 95...the o/s
    is there's to change/modify/discontinue, we're just licensed to use it
    with it's pros and cons.

    --
    ...w­¤?ñ?¤

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John C.@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 07:29:19 2026
    On 26/01/16 07:22 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

    "John C." <r9jmg0@yahoo.com> wrote:

    This morning, I was surprised to see that I needed to reboot my W10 Pro
    computer in order to install an update. However, there it was.

    Apparently, the update removes some old modem drivers and installs some
    new Secure Boot certificates, as the older certificates hav recently
    expired. The update is more fully described here:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/january-13-2026-kb5073724-os-builds-19045-6809-and-19044-6809-bd960b49-050e-432f-a9d5-2454cb377fed

    Here's what it says:
    ________________________________________________________________________ >>> The following is a summary of the issues that this update addresses when >>> you install this update. If there are new features, it lists them as
    well. The bold text within the brackets indicates the item or area of
    the change we are documenting.

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys
    (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer >>> work in Windows.

    [Secure Boot] Starting with this update, Windows quality updates
    include a subset of high confidence device targeting data that
    identifies devices eligible to automatically receive new Secure Boot
    certificates. Devices will receive the new certificates only after
    demonstrating sufficient successful update signals, ensuring a safe and
    phased deployment.

    [WinSqlite3.dll] Fixed: The Windows core component, WinSqlite3.dll,
    has been updated. Previously, some security software might have detected >>> this component as vulnerable.

    Note: WinSqlite3.dll is a separate component from sqlite3.dll, which >>> is found in application-specific directories and is not a Windows
    component. If security applications continue to detect sqlite3.dll as
    vulnerable, contact the developer of the app using sqlite3.dll for an
    update. If sqlite3.dll is being used by a Microsoft app, install the
    latest version of the app from the Microsoft Store.
    ________________________________________________________________________ >>>
    Some people reported experiencing problems after installing the update:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/1qc0860/microsoft_releases_windows_10_kb5073724_extended/

    I allowed the update and, so far, have experienced no problems. Knock on >>> wood.

    My concern is about the Secure Boot certificates. The KB article says
    the certs will roll out based on criteria of eligible devices. So, this
    update doesn't have any certs. Those come later.

    The eligibility was not well defined. It's based on some "signals" in
    further updates. Since Secure Boot is not currently enabled on my
    computer, maybe I would be considered ineligible, and won't get the
    certs in later updates. I am enrolled in ESU (Extended Service Updates)
    which ends October 2026.

    I was planning on upgrading from Windows 10 to 11. TPM and Secure Boot
    would get enabled in the BIOS before installing Windows 11, and
    hopefully Windows 10 would get the new certs after the old ones expire.
    However, according to expirations listed at:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/windows-secure-boot-certificate-expiration-and-ca-updates-7ff40d33-95dc-4c3c-8725-a9b95457578e

    Microsoft Corporation KEK CA 2011
    June 2026
    Signs updates to DB and DBX.

    Microsoft Windows Production PCA 2011
    Oct 2026
    Used for signing the Windows boot loader.

    Microsoft UEFI CA 2011*
    June 2026
    Signs third-party boot loaders and EFI applications.

    Microsoft UEFI CA 2011*
    June 2026
    Signs third-party option ROMs

    I don't what "DB and DBX" means other than some database, but what use I
    don't know. The boot loader for Windows seems the most important cert
    update as the UEFI won't load it without a proper cert if Secure Boot is
    enabled.

    So, maybe I should figure out how to install Windows 11 without Secure
    Boot enabled, and forego any security therefrom. I installed and tested
    Windows 11 Pro as a guest OS inside a virtual machine using Rufus to
    eliminate the TPM, Secure Boot, and MS account requirements. That
    worked, so maybe I'll do that for the Windows 11 upgrade in the real
    computer.

    As for the reddit folks saying there are problems with this update:

    - Breaks the taskbar
    Unclear what "break" means. Mine still works after the update.

    - Breaks functionality of the windows button on my keyboard
    My Winkey still works.

    - Made some apps very slow (even apps that should be very stable start
    "Not responding" and never close)
    Oh, some apps. If the poster knew that, he'd also know which ones.

    - prevents my machine from fully restarting
    What would be partial restarting? My reboots okay.

    - my (important) Caller-ID application stopped working.
    Probably due to the update removing old modem drivers. My guess is
    that user has an analog modem for faxing, and maybe calling. No
    mention he visited the hardware maker's website to get drivers. He
    said he uninstalled the update, and his modem worked again. So,
    install the update, and reinstall the modem drivers. If his modem is
    so old that the maker no longer has drivers, well, he could get a new
    dial-up modem. RS-232 modems are harder to find, and we don't know if
    he uses an external modem to a serial port, or a USB modem, or a
    daughtercard in a mobo slot.

    Those folks could revert to the prior state using their image backups.
    Oops, there's another deer caught in headlights. System Restore should
    work, too, since Windows updates saves a restore point before installing
    an update.

    It isn't just this update. Any Windows, program, app, or driver update
    can cause problems. Be prepared BEFORE updating. I rely on image
    backups to restore. System Restore is a bit iffy.

    Well, I did encounter an anomaly, but it may incidental. After a cold
    boot, my video was at much lower resolution (1280x1024). I rebooted a
    couple times more, let it boot into Windows, and restarted, but was
    still at a low resolution. The card and monitor should be 2560x1440. Reinstalled the video driver, and was 2560x1440 after a reboot.

    Can't say this was caused by this update. I was putzing with memory
    module configuration. When I ran the video driver installer, it
    reported the video card did not start on the prior reboot, and had me
    fill out a report to send to AMD. I'm guessing the onboard video in the
    CPU got used hence the lower resolution. That's why I checked BIOS to
    ensure the primary video was set to PCIe, and not onboard. In fact, I changed to from PCIe to onboard back to PCIe just to ensure the setting
    got stepped on. No joy until I reinstalled the video driver, and
    another reboot. Guess my computer decided I got too complacent
    regarding its care. Feed me, feed me. Possibly the new update. It's getting to be all FM: Fucking Magic.

    Didn't anyone else reporting KB5073724 cause a video problem, so it is probably an incidental problem. Sure woke we up.

    Always a PITA to have to go through these kinds of hoops due to an
    update. My ancient (but loved) desktop is running an NVIDIA GeForcce GT
    1030 card. The installed driver wants to call home for updates, but I
    block it in my firewall from doing so.

    --
    John C. I filter crossposts, various trolls & dizum.com. Doing this
    makes this newsgroup easier to read & more on-topic. Take back the tech companies from India & industry from China.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John C.@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 07:31:19 2026
    J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    John C. wrote:

    []

    Here's what it says:

    []

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys
    (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer
    work in Windows.

    []

    I fail to see any point in removing drivers, and thus killing equipment;
    what is the justification?

    (Not that I've used a MoDem - other than the ones built into my "router"
    - for years; just as a point of principle.)

    If drivers are _replaced_, that's a different matter.

    Totally agree, J.P.

    --
    John C. I filter crossposts, various trolls & dizum.com. Doing this
    makes this newsgroup easier to read & more on-topic. Take back the tech companies from India & industry from China.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 15:36:47 2026
    On 2026/1/17 8:12:46, ...w­¤?ñ?¤ wrote:
    []
    - items have been removed and deprecated and complained or agreed upon
    for decades.

    []

    I deprecate anyone (or -think) who/that deprecates. On the whole, I
    deprecate any that even uses the word, which I didn't come across until
    in the software context (at first in HTML, IIRR).

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "If even one person" arguments allow the perfect to become the enemy of
    the good, and thus they tend to cause more harm than good.
    - Jimmy Akins quoted by Scott Adams, 2015-5-5

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 21:18:00 2026
    J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    On 2026/1/17 8:12:46, ...w??? wrote:
    []
    - items have been removed and deprecated and complained or agreed upon for decades.

    []

    I deprecate anyone (or -think) who/that deprecates. On the whole, I
    deprecate any that even uses the word, which I didn't come across until
    in the software context (at first in HTML, IIRR).

    Indeed! 'deprecate' has no positive or even just neutral connotation
    that I know of.

    Luckily in *this* case, *Microsoft* didn't use 'deprecate', but said
    "This update removes...".

    As you mentioned, it would have been 'nice' if they would have said
    *why* the drivers were removed, for example by pointing to the CVE which Winston mentioned.

    I wonder what happened to/on the systems which used the removed
    drivers. Were their users notified during/after the update?

    As to the general issue of removed drivers: As far as I know there are driver-extractors which can extract drivers from a live or 'dead'
    filesystem and make installable packages from them. That's why we make
    Macrium Reflect Image (or full file-level) backups, don't we!? :-)

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Paul@3:633/10 to All on Sat Jan 17 22:50:59 2026
    On Sat, 1/17/2026 10:29 AM, John C. wrote:

    Always a PITA to have to go through these kinds of hoops due to an
    update. My ancient (but loved) desktop is running an NVIDIA GeForcce GT
    1030 card. The installed driver wants to call home for updates, but I
    block it in my firewall from doing so.


    The custom settings on the NVidia driver (as downloaded from NVidia
    and not from Windows Update), allows un-ticking Geforce Experience,
    and that may result in a reduction in network traffic.

    At one time, scheduled tasks had some NVidia entries, and removing
    those can reduce the calling home too.

    Paul


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From EllisMorgan@3:633/10 to All on Sun Jan 18 08:05:39 2026
    On 17/01/2026 00:56, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/1/17 0:21:33, VanguardLH wrote:
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

    On 2026/1/16 11:1:12, John C. wrote:

    []

    Here's what it says:

    []

    [Drivers] This update removes the following modem drivers:
    agrsm64.sys (x64), agrsm.sys (x86), smserl64.sys (x64) and smserial.sys >>>> (x86). Modem hardware dependent on these specific drivers will no longer >>>> work in Windows.

    []

    I fail to see any point in removing drivers, and thus killing equipment; >>> what is the justification?

    (Not that I've used a MoDem - other than the ones built into my "router" >>> - for years; just as a point of principle.)

    If drivers are _replaced_, that's a different matter.

    If the drivers are no longer supported by the hardware maker, Microsoft
    doesn't want to be doling out or supporting old and possibly bad
    drivers. They only distribute the drivers. They don't write them. The
    hardware might still be working, but that doesn't mean Microsoft wants
    to proliferate bad or unsupported drivers for that still-working
    hardware.

    There's a difference between not proliferating them, and actively
    withdrawing them.

    The agrsm[64].sys, I guessing are for some Agere hardware. Agere went
    defunct back in 2007. Merged into LSI Corp who went defunct in 2014.
    Acquired by Avago Tech in 2016, rebranded to Broadcom. Good luck
    finding the drivers there.

    Despite Microsoft removed them, you could reinstall them if you still
    had the media (e.g., CD or floppy) that came with the product. Or get
    them from the hardware maker, but I doubt Broadcom has them.

    As I said, I'm not using any of the affected hardware; it's more the principle.

    Thanks jpg, at 80p a pint (œ1.41p a litre) it makes ATP pretty
    comparable to petrol as a source of energy.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Stan Brown@3:633/10 to All on Sun Jan 18 15:25:14 2026
    On 17 Jan 2026 21:18:00 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    Indeed! 'deprecate' has no positive or even just neutral connotation
    that I know of.

    As used correctly, I agree. Fowler says "deprecate" means "do the
    reverse of pray for", and my dictionary says "to ward off by prayer".
    Either way, the thing deprecated is something you don't want.

    There's a second meaning: "To belittle; depreciate." Fowler calls
    this a "blunder," and I agree. Since we already have the word
    belittle and its synonyms, why make "deprecate" do double duty, so
    that no one can tell if you actually mean deprecate or "depreciate"?

    --
    "The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by
    those who don't have it." --George Bernard Shaw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Graham J@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 19 12:51:10 2026
    Stan Brown wrote:
    [snip]

    There's a second meaning: "To belittle; depreciate." Fowler calls
    this a "blunder," and I agree.

    Fowler is right; "depreciate" is not generally used to mean belittle.
    Google's AI suggests it is used to mean belittle, but I can't find any authoritative source that confirms this definition.

    In English (as opposed to American) "depreciate" means to reduce in
    value, which is what happens to your currency when it suffers from
    inflation, or your car's value as it gets older.

    Maybe American has an alternative definition?

    --
    Graham J

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From John C.@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 19 06:07:18 2026
    Paul wrote:
    John C. wrote:

    Always a PITA to have to go through these kinds of hoops due to an
    update. My ancient (but loved) desktop is running an NVIDIA GeForcce GT
    1030 card. The installed driver wants to call home for updates, but I
    block it in my firewall from doing so.

    The custom settings on the NVidia driver (as downloaded from NVidia
    and not from Windows Update), allows un-ticking Geforce Experience,
    and that may result in a reduction in network traffic.

    At one time, scheduled tasks had some NVidia entries, and removing
    those can reduce the calling home too.

    Paul, when I installed the driver for my video card, it was easy to
    simply not install the GeForce Experience and that was the route I took.

    The file I blocked on my firewall was NVDisplay.Container.exe. Although
    it still tries to call out to "check for updates" (and who knows what
    else), Nirsoft's LiveTcpUdpWatch shows that no packets are transferred
    either incoming or outgoing. I have never been bothered with a message
    urging me to update my video card's driver either.

    I never allowed M$ to update my video card's driver and yes, I
    downloaded the driver from NVidia.

    --
    John C. I filter crossposts, various trolls & dizum.com. Doing this
    makes this newsgroup easier to read & more on-topic. Take back the tech companies from India & industry from China.


    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From VanguardLH@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 19 10:06:09 2026
    Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

    Stan Brown wrote:

    There's a second meaning: "To belittle; depreciate." Fowler calls
    this a "blunder," and I agree.

    What would you use as the converse or antonym of appreciate? Un prefix
    could be used, as in unappreciate, but the de prefix also means
    opposite. Example: do you say unvalue or devalue?

    In accounting parlance, appreciation is the rise in an asset's value
    over time, and depreciation is a reduction in value over time. Simarly,
    you could more value someone or less value them.

    Fowler is right; "depreciate" is not generally used to mean belittle.

    In English (as opposed to American) "depreciate" means to reduce in
    value, which is what happens to your currency when it suffers from inflation, or your car's value as it gets older.

    Maybe American has an alternative definition?

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/deprecate
    For people: to disapprove or belittle them.
    For computers: to cease supporting or recommending the use of (older
    elements, features, or versions of software).

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/depreciate
    2. lessen the value of
    4. represent as of little value or merit; belittle

    There are many words having the same or similar meaning, and sometime
    multiple choice to express the converse of a word, so which you use
    depends on your exposure in usage, and reception of your lingo depends
    on the community to which you speak. Language isn't hard fixed. With a
    choice of multiple words with same or similar definition, sometimes the
    choice is connotation over denotation. I dislike you, or I detest you,
    or I hate you, or I despise you, or I loathe you. Usually perceived
    with different intensity.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 19 16:43:42 2026
    On 2026/1/19 16:6:9, VanguardLH wrote:
    Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

    Stan Brown wrote:

    There's a second meaning: "To belittle; depreciate." Fowler calls
    this a "blunder," and I agree.

    Me too.

    What would you use as the converse or antonym of appreciate? Un prefix
    could be used, as in unappreciate, but the de prefix also means

    I think I'd use "not appreciate" - two words - or another phrase.
    Difficult to say without context.
    []

    For computers: to cease supporting or recommending the use of (older elements, features, or versions of software).

    I have so far I think _only_ come across deprecate (not depreciate) in
    the computer coding context; the meaning is clear - a counter to
    recommend. Often used in the passive - "is deprecated" - as if the
    person writing (typing) is attempting to push the deprecation onto
    someone else.

    [Discussion of deprecIate snipped]

    My objection - though I don't like the word itself, but that's probably
    because of where it's mostly used - is to the concept, not really the
    word. It is usually - in my opinion, anyway - used to deprecate old (for example) coding styles, usually _without_ giving any justification -
    and, I suspect, often where there _is_ no justification. (Just because something is old is not of itself a reason not to use it. [And yes, I
    know just because something is old doesn't make it _better_.])

    I _think_ the first time I encountered the word was in relation to the
    CENTER tag in HTML - which was being "deprecated" in favour of all the
    other changes to HTML about the same time, which seemed to be attempting
    to force the output into a more and more fixed layout - basically a Word
    (or similar WP) clone; if you want fixed layout, use PDF, not HTML. (Or
    even images, but that mitigates against the non-sighted, unless you ALT.)

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    War doesn't determine who's right. War determines who's left.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Stan Brown@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 19 13:07:55 2026
    On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 12:51:10 +0000, Graham J wrote:
    In English (as opposed to American) "depreciate" means to reduce in
    value, which is what happens to your currency when it suffers from inflation, or your car's value as it gets older.


    https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=depreciate

    v.tr.
    1. To lessen the price or value of: An increase in the supply of
    money depreciated the currency.
    2. To write off an expenditure for (a tangible asset) by
    prorating over a certain period, usually the estimated useful
    life of the asset.
    3. To think or speak of as being of little worth; belittle. See
    Synonyms at disparage. See Usage Note at deprecate.

    v.intr.
    To diminish in price or value: "When issued in excess, as during
    the Revolution, paper depreciated in value" (Daniel Feller).


    --
    "The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by
    those who don't have it." --George Bernard Shaw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Stan Brown@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 19 13:11:36 2026
    On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 16:43:42 +0000, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    What would you use as the converse or antonym of appreciate? Un prefix could be used, as in unappreciate, but the de prefix also means

    I think I'd use "not appreciate" - two words - or another phrase.
    Difficult to say without context.

    The trouble with that is that it immediately brings to mind the
    phrase "I don't appreciate that", meaning I disapprove of something,
    perhaps finding it even offensive.

    When "appreciate" means "increase in value", is not the obvious
    antonym "lose value"?

    --
    "The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by
    those who don't have it." --George Bernard Shaw

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Frank Slootweg@3:633/10 to All on Mon Jan 19 21:45:43 2026
    VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
    [...]

    [As John's crticism (and my and Stan's support of that critcism) was
    about 'deprecate', *not* 'depreciate', I'll limit my response to that.]

    Maybe American has an alternative definition?

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/deprecate
    For people: to disapprove or belittle them.
    For computers: to cease supporting or recommending the use of (older elements, features, or versions of software).

    (According to dictionary.com,) That's indeed the *American* meaning.

    If you click on the '[British]' button on that page, you indeed only
    get the negative connotations we (John, me and Stan) are talking about:

    1. to express disapproval of; protest against

    2. to depreciate (a person, someone's character, etc); belittle

    3. archaic to try to ward off by prayer

    So to prevent misunderstandings, it's unwise to use 'deprecate', also
    in a computer context.

    [...]

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.2
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)