On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:

And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence
(so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a
'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
SPEED LIMIT.

In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
two years.

The weekend before my kids did their road tests I took each of them
for a drive covering everything within 2 miles of the motor vehicle
office from which they'd be doing their tests.

I did that because I didn't want them to have the fate of an employee
of mine who had on her first road test done a spotless test until when
toodling along just below 30 mph she encountered a corner where they
had a stop sign which couldn't be seen as the householder on the
corner had an unpruned tree which had overgrown and blocked the view
of the stop sign until she got within 10' which was too short a
distance to stop in time. (She passed easily on her second test but
that cost an additional $35 for the second test)

On my drive by I pointed out each stop sign and playground zone sign
where they would have to either stop or slow below 30 mph. All three
of them passed with flying colors.

(My eldest actually told the examiner before leaving the examination
parking lot "given the construction zone signs around here I don't see
how we can legally exit this parking lot - what would you suggest we
do?" and he decided then and there unless she did something awful she
was passing her test - 1/2 hour later she was all smiles)

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:

At one stage I was driving (at 80km/h) on a major, but single lane each
way, thoroughfare .... so had a growing line of vehicles behind me. So, >rather than causing the other drivers getting frustrated and, maybe,
trying dangerous overtaking maneuvers, I sped up to the "Open"
speed-limit of 100km/h .... and, sure enough, the third or fourth car
behind me was an unmarked Cop car!! I didn't hold that Licence long!

My grandfather once had the "pleasure" of driving down a dark highway
at night when the car directly behind him with high beams on. He sped
up to 50 mph, then 60 mph, then 70 mph with the driver behind him
matching his speed each time. Then at 70 the car behind turned on a
flasher and my grandfather pulled over.

The officer asked him why he was speeding when he was the only car in
sight and when he told the officer that he was only trying to get away
from the officer's high beams, the officer went back to his car,
realized he DID have his high beams on, apologized and tore up the
ticket.

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:

On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:

And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence
(so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a
'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
SPEED LIMIT.

In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
two years.

Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can get your
'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow background) which entitles
you to drive when accompanied by a fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm
not sure if they are allowed to carry any other passengers.

When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus Test official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P' on White background) that you have to display whilst driving for three years, I think.

Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first year
after passing the test.

However, during learning they are using a special "driving school" car,
which has also the school advertising on the roof besides the L. After
passing the exam, and obtaining the license, they have to put a green L
sign behind the rear side glass.

Novel drivers are not obligated to drive accompanied.
And learning has to be with an authorized teacher.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES??, EU??;

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:

On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:

And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence >>>> (so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a >>>> 'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
SPEED LIMIT.

In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
two years.

Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can get your
'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow background) which entitles
you to drive when accompanied by a fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm
not sure if they are allowed to carry any other passengers.

When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus Test
official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P' on White
background) that you have to display whilst driving for three years, I
think.

Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first year
after passing the test.

However, during learning they are using a special "driving school" car, which has also the school advertising on the roof besides the L. After passing the exam, and obtaining the license, they have to put a green L
sign behind the rear side glass.

Sounds similar to the french system; you can only learn through a driving school. Then display an "A" for three years after you pass plus you have specific speed limits. Although, I don't know how well this is followed as
you almost never see these stickers on cars.

Novel drivers are not obligated to drive accompanied.
And learning has to be with an authorized teacher.

In the UK, anyone can accompany a learner driver as long as they are over
21 and have had a licence for at least three years. You need to have "L"
plates on the car. A learner can pass the tests having never received a
formal lesson.

Once passed you can drive just like anyone else, but will lose your licence after only six penalty points (rather than 12) within the first two years.
You then have to resit your complete test to get a new licence.

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025-10-07 18:15, Chris wrote:

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2025-10-07 13:10, Daniel70 wrote:

On 7/10/2025 5:58 am, The Horny Goat wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 00:38:46 +1000, Daniel70
<daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:

And talking about STUPIDITY!! ..... When I got my Probationary Licence >>>>> (so allowed to drive by myself), Probationary Drivers HAD to display a >>>>> 'P' plate, front and rear of car, AND HAD AN 80KM/H (50MPH) MAXIMUM
SPEED LIMIT.

In these parts they have an "L" and a "N" card that you were required
to display - "L" meant "learner" meaning you had to have a licenced
driver in the passenger seat while "N" is what you got after
successfully doing your road test and had to display for your first
two years.

Similar here in Victoria, Australia. From age 17 years, you can get your >>> 'L' (Learner) plates (Black 'L' on a Yellow background) which entitles
you to drive when accompanied by a fully licenced, *SOBER* , driver. I'm >>> not sure if they are allowed to carry any other passengers.

When you pass your Drivers Test (You, your licenced driver plus Test
official), you get your 'P' (Probationary) Plates (Red 'P' on White
background) that you have to display whilst driving for three years, I
think.

Here (Spain) the L is used both for learning and during the first year
after passing the test.

However, during learning they are using a special "driving school" car,
which has also the school advertising on the roof besides the L. After
passing the exam, and obtaining the license, they have to put a green L
sign behind the rear side glass.

Sounds similar to the french system; you can only learn through a driving school. Then display an "A" for three years after you pass plus you have specific speed limits. Although, I don't know how well this is followed as you almost never see these stickers on cars.

I forgot to mention that all driving school cars have double controls. I
mean, the instructor has at least pedals, so instant brake in emergency.
Or acceleration.

And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same physical
car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the examiner,
sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor intervention and
fails the exam.

A relatively recent modification is that there is an specific license
for automated shift cars. But a person with such a license is forbidden
from driving a standard sift/gear car.

Novel drivers are not obligated to drive accompanied.
And learning has to be with an authorized teacher.

In the UK, anyone can accompany a learner driver as long as they are over
21 and have had a licence for at least three years. You need to have "L" plates on the car. A learner can pass the tests having never received a formal lesson.

Once passed you can drive just like anyone else, but will lose your licence after only six penalty points (rather than 12) within the first two years. You then have to resit your complete test to get a new licence.

Something like that in Spain, too.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES??, EU??;

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 11:14:47 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same physical >car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the examiner, >sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor intervention and >fails the exam.

In the UK the instructor doesn't go on the test, so the examiner sits
next to the person being tested.
They use dual control cars in the UK as well but I don't know how
widespread they are. My first instructor, in the 1960s, was too fond
of using them in my opinion, so I sacked him and passed my test after
a few weeks with another instructor.

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 11:14:47 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

And the exam is done in the same type of car, probably the same physical
car. The double pedal has a signal of some sort, so that the examiner,
sitting in the back, knows instantly of the instructor intervention and
fails the exam.

In the UK the instructor doesn't go on the test, so the examiner sits
next to the person being tested.

Yup. And they control the dual pedals, if present. Which happened to me
during my second test. D'oh! Instant fail :(

Can't imagine having the examiner *and* instructor in the car during the
test.

They use dual control cars in the UK as well but I don't know how
widespread they are.

Very. Although, not obligatory while learning nor when being examined.

You can even hire them for your own use. Which I did with both my kids the first few times I took them out. They can scratch a hire car rather than
mine.

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)