micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 5 Oct 2025 11:11:00 -0000 (UTC),
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 4 Oct 2025 00:49:13 +0100, "J. P.
Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2025/10/3 17:46:11, micky wrote:

I have a friend whose laptop screen no longer works. It's all white. >>>>

I assume you mean the screen lights up all white, rather than just
telling us what colour the laptop is (-:.

I think the whole laptop is blu e.

At best, I wonder if the screen connector has just become partly
disconnected - but getting at it to check might be hard work. As he's
bought a new laptop, he's presumably resigned to discarding the old one, >>>> which is a pity, but it's done now.

Well, if I could fix it, I might keep it or give it to one of his
grandchildren. But I've taken a couple laptops apart and indded it is
not always easy

It has no external monitor port. And we're hoping there is a way to >>>>

Are you sure? You say you're only chatting over the 'phone at this
point. Unless it's quite old now, I'd be surprised if it has a VGA

It is quite old, 9 years maybe, and I sent him a picture of a VGA port. >>>

(XVGA, whatever - the 15-pin D type) one,

Yeah, that one.

BTW, the refurb. Dell I just bought which is about 4 years old has no
video port either. I checked the manual. Almost half of one side is
taken up by a smart card reader. maybe if they didn't use the space for >>> that, they'd have included a video port?

I'd be very surprised if it didn't.

Nowadays ports are multipurpose so USB(-C) or Thunderbolt do video
connections as well.

Oops. I missed this or forgot. It has a USB Type C 3.2 Gen 2 with
Power Delivery & DisplayPort (Optional Thunderbolt 3)

There you go. The one port can do data transfer, charge the battery or run
a monitor. The downside is that you can't do all three at the same time
without some sort of dock.

So that means I can connect a monitor there, after all, if I ever get
myself in the fix my friend is in, for example.

Exactly. A laptop without a display out is almost unheard of. I suggest you triple-check your friend's laptop.


--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/10/6 1:49:49, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 5 Oct 2025 13:24:25 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

[]

I suppose that's what you had to do, given the difficulty of finding t

he

power board at all. Given that had to be replaced anyway, I'd have tri

ed

to find a version that ran on 220 (or ideally both), but maybe you tri

ed

to without success.>>

I did try. I also tried from the other direction, to find out if there

was a model made to run on 220. I think I even phoned someone in the
parts department back in the US. But trying to find a similar model
number went nowhere. There might well have been a 220v tv made by them

that used the same power board, but there just wasn't enough informatio

n

Yes, the amount of technical information on electronic goods is parlous.

online or even on that one phone call. I'm sure that transformer
wastes a lot of power, but she's still happy.

Actually, if a transformer is all it is, and thinking about it it
doesn't need to be anything else, then no, it won't be wasting much
power - transformers are pretty efficient: power companies use them all
the time!

[]

Actually, thinking about it, the one I'm more likely to help people wi

th

is the proper X-shaped wheelbrace; so many cars come with just the
little hand one (sort of a J shape), which needs superhuman strength t

o

use. Other than wheels or a flat battery, there's probably little on
modern cars you can fix without a (specialised, at that) computer.

I had a dead battery, also at a hamfest (at the same location I went
today even) and someone had a handheld battery with teeny little cable clamps. I couldn't believe it but it worked great. So about a year ag

o

Yes, those handheld ones do seem to be amazing. Including, as you say,
the teeny clamps.

I bought one too. The instructions say to charge it every 6 months, bu

t

after 8 months it was still almost fully charged. I haven't used it however.

I'll see how I get on this winter. Though most common flat battery is
home (I don't go out much), and I have the last one I bought for my
previous car (I'd just changed it before the car was declared not worth maintaining, so I put the old one back in to take it to be scrapped), so
don't need (I hope!) one of those.>

As to tire changes, the last time was this winter, in the snow, on an expressway miles from home and miles from my destination, and I'm 78,
and I called someone.

I'm "only" 65 - but might consider doing so in such circumstances.
Though I'd probably have a go while waiting, if they told me they'd be ag
es.

[]


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Mary Poppins is a junkie" - bumper sticker on Julie Andrews' car in the
'60s

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/10/5 22:45:21, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 4 Oct 2025 11:00:36 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

[]

Though he may not have access to an HDMI monitor and/or lead. On the
other hand, he may well have a TV with HDMI input, so it's only the
lead, unless he has e. g. a blu-ray player.>

He's 82 and hasn't bought anything new-fangled, including a smart phone

.

I'm surprised how long HDMI has been on TVs. (Though also, know people
still use very old TVs: I myself have a couple of CRT ones.) Kudos to
him for resisting a smartphone! I have had one, but have since resisted
the temptation - partly because of the cost of the data contract
necessary to justify having it (peanuts in practice, but not something I
need), and partly because from what I gather they really _are_ on an
about 3-year renewal cycle, that isn't avoidable as it is with PCs, and
that _is_ a significant amount of money.

[]

I think that's what it is. The Amazon refurb ad said** something about
it and the Dell owners manual says points to the slot and says "Smart
card reader (optional)" The slot is 2 1/4" wide.

My prior Orders listing points to the same model. The price has gone
down sincd Dec 9 from 529 to 483, not that much for 10 months. Were I shopping today, I'd still be willing to pay 529 and I'd look for
something newer or better. More intesting is that it's current rating
is 2.2 stars out of 5 on 3 ratings. Believe you me it was much higher
with many more ratings when I bought it. There is only one review, tha

t

it will not charge, waiting on help from seller.

Hmm. I paid œ199.99 for this refurbished Lenovo (AMD A10 7th gen qua
d
core, 8G, 480G SSD, DVD-RW, W10 Home) back in May, and it does all I
want - obviously our requirements are very different! I'm not a gamer
and haven't so far done any video editing, and can't think of anything - possibly _apart_ from video editing, but can't see my doing any of that
in the near future - that it won't be more than capable of doing. The
only real irritant so far has been the positioning of the right shift
key in relation to the arrow keys.

[]

He might have hdmi, I really doubt it. If so and we can borrow a
monitor when I get there, it will just require pushing some key on the keyboard to switch to the eexternal monitor, right??

And possibly the function key, yes. The relevant key will have drawings
of screens on it; on this it seems to be the F10 key, on others I've
seen around F6. If the subsidiary key markings are in a different colour
to the normal keys (it will be the same colour as "Fn" on the function
key), you'll need to press the Fn key too. It will probably cycle round
between internal (screen), external, and both, not necessarily in that
order.


[]

Don't forget to take your tiny screwdrivers (if you haven't got any, a

n

excuse to get a set!), and some things to use as I think Paul called
them spudgers. And some little dishes or similar to put the screws in.

Okay, I'll remember. In the car I keep a little magnetic dish, meant

Sounds ideal. Though a few extra might not come amiss, for different
sized screws. And some scrap paper to sketch where the screws are - an alternative, if the working environment is safe enough for it, is to
poke them through a piece of paper in mimic diagramme of where they came
from, but only if you find they're of different sizes (usually lengths).

for auto work. But I haven't had to work on the car for several years
(don't drive too much anymore.)

Me neither at the moment, though for a different reason.

[]

Then there is (common on soup):
"Put into a microwaveable container."
I do that.
"Cover and vent."
Done.
"Microwave on full power for five minutes"
Done.
"stirring half way through"
Grr!

LOL. I sometimes skip the stirring step because I'm too lazy to get up

(even before my back hurt)

Yes, I've often thought it doesn't seem to contribute much.

[]

I've got a spare monitor that is ~20 years old, not even wide.

Almost certainly not HDMI, though, so won't be of use - I think you've established fairly certainly that the laptop hasn't got a VGA output -
unless you're like Paul and carry converters.


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Mary Poppins is a junkie" - bumper sticker on Julie Andrews' car in the
'60s

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/10/6 1:50:51, Paul wrote:

On Sun, 10/5/2025 5:45 PM, micky wrote:

I've got a spare monitor that is ~20 years old, not even wide.

If the connector was VGA, you'd bring the correct kind of VGA cable.

[]

In addition, for your car collection, you could pack an
HDMI to VGA and a DP to VGA adapter. I have a bunch of these here,

I don't _think_ most of us do, though!

[]

The other ecosystems are more likely to have USB-C and then, who knows

what

weird collection of adapters would be needed... For the
USB-C case, you could look into "docks" or "hubs" with lots
of graphics outputs on them, as a "gamblers converter box". But
those are likely over $100 and not attractive for mercy missions.

I don't think micky is quite as into this as you! (I neither, though I
do have HD docks/cables.)

Paul

John


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I'm not against women. Not often enough, anyway." - Groucho Marx

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

I've got a spare monitor that is ~20 years old, not even wide.

That's probably too old as there's a 10 year gap in generations with the laptop.

Your monitor probably only has VGA and DVI which are both obsolete. The
laptop will likely have (mini) displayport or HDMI.

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 14:48:44 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

I've got a spare monitor that is ~20 years old, not even wide.

That's probably too old as there's a 10 year gap in generations with the laptop.

Your monitor probably only has VGA and DVI which are both obsolete. The laptop will likely have (mini) displayport or HDMI.

If it has DVI, that can be connected to HDMI with a passive adapter. IIRC, there are adapters for displayport too.

--
80 days until the winter celebration (Thursday, December 25, 2025 12:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"It's called 'Windows XP because its full name, 'The Repair Shop and
Help-Desk Fill Employment Act of 2006", won't fit on the box."

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 6 Oct 2025 07:41:30 -0000 (UTC),
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 5 Oct 2025 11:11:00 -0000 (UTC),
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 4 Oct 2025 00:49:13 +0100, "J. P.
Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

On 2025/10/3 17:46:11, micky wrote:

I have a friend whose laptop screen no longer works. It's all white. >>>>>

I assume you mean the screen lights up all white, rather than just
telling us what colour the laptop is (-:.

I think the whole laptop is blu e.

At best, I wonder if the screen connector has just become partly
disconnected - but getting at it to check might be hard work. As he's >>>>> bought a new laptop, he's presumably resigned to discarding the old one, >>>>> which is a pity, but it's done now.

Well, if I could fix it, I might keep it or give it to one of his
grandchildren. But I've taken a couple laptops apart and indded it is >>>> not always easy

It has no external monitor port. And we're hoping there is a way to >>>>>

Are you sure? You say you're only chatting over the 'phone at this
point. Unless it's quite old now, I'd be surprised if it has a VGA

It is quite old, 9 years maybe, and I sent him a picture of a VGA port. >>>>

(XVGA, whatever - the 15-pin D type) one,

Yeah, that one.

BTW, the refurb. Dell I just bought which is about 4 years old has no
video port either. I checked the manual. Almost half of one side is
taken up by a smart card reader. maybe if they didn't use the space for >>>> that, they'd have included a video port?

I'd be very surprised if it didn't.

Nowadays ports are multipurpose so USB(-C) or Thunderbolt do video
connections as well.

Oops. I missed this or forgot. It has a USB Type C 3.2 Gen 2 with
Power Delivery & DisplayPort (Optional Thunderbolt 3)

There you go. The one port can do data transfer, charge the battery or run
a monitor. The downside is that you can't do all three at the same time >without some sort of dock.

So that means I can connect a monitor there, after all, if I ever get
myself in the fix my friend is in, for example.

Exactly. A laptop without a display out is almost unheard of. I suggest you >triple-check your friend's laptop.

I will do that. His one flaw is that he's hard to get a hold of. Simple
emails that could be replied to in 30 seconds don't get a reply. Phone
calls rarely get a reply. And he knows he's bad too. Once he started
off apologizing for being so long to get back to me and it had only been
one day. He's late so often he assumes he's late.
His wife died about a year ago. When I would leave a message for him, sometimes she'd say she wasn't guaranteeing that he'd call back. So he
was this way with most people.

Back to my computer, a Dell Latitude 5510 (Dell made another 5510 that
is not a Latitude. I guess they have a shortgage of numbers there and
have to use them twice.)
I'm glad it has a video port. What's interesting is that it has a
white light that shows when it's being charged, IF IT NEEDS CHARGING,
but not one that shows the charger is connected if it's fully charged.
So if the charger gets unplugged, there is no change in lights until I
notice it and plug the charger back in. This has only happened once and
now I'm more careful than ever, but I liked the little blue light on
the Acer. I thought maybe the light has two colors but testing says
no.

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 14:48:44 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

I've got a spare monitor that is ~20 years old, not even wide.

That's probably too old as there's a 10 year gap in generations with the
laptop.

Your monitor probably only has VGA and DVI which are both obsolete. The
laptop will likely have (mini) displayport or HDMI.

If it has DVI, that can be connected to HDMI with a passive adapter. IIRC, there are adapters for displayport too.

True, but I doubt micky will have all the combinations of adapters
available to him. Like, is it DVI-A or DVI-D?


--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 6 Oct 2025 11:17:16 +0100, "J. P.
Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

I'm sure that transformer

wastes a lot of power, but she's still happy.=20

Actually, if a transformer is all it is, and thinking about it it
doesn't need to be anything else, then no, it won't be wasting much
power - transformers are pretty efficient:

Oh, good.

power companies use them all
the time!

That's true, and I think they are in the box at the end of a string of townhouses, and I've never noticed any heat coming from one of them.

[]

Actually, thinking about it, the one I'm more likely to help people wi=

th

is the proper X-shaped wheelbrace; so many cars come with just the
little hand one (sort of a J shape), which needs superhuman strength t=

o

use. Other than wheels or a flat battery, there's probably little on
modern cars you can fix without a (specialised, at that) computer.

=20
I had a dead battery, also at a hamfest (at the same location I went
today even) and someone had a handheld battery with teeny little cable
clamps. I couldn't believe it but it worked great. So about a year ag=

o

Yes, those handheld ones do seem to be amazing. Including, as you say,
the teeny clamps.

I bought one too. The instructions say to charge it every 6 months, bu=

t

after 8 months it was still almost fully charged. I haven't used it
however.=20

I'll see how I get on this winter. Though most common flat battery is
home (I don't go out much), and I have the last one I bought for my
previous car (I'd just changed it before the car was declared not worth >maintaining, so I put the old one back in to take it to be scrapped), so >don't need (I hope!) one of those.>

I seem to be unusually afraid of a dead battery. Maybe it's fron the
years when I had a weak battery. Over 30 years from 1967 to 2007, I
probably had to ask the public for a jump 20 or 30 times. I'd pull out
the cables and stand there, and usually someone would stop. One time well-dressed pretty girl stopped. That was surprising, but she seeme to
think she could help me without my attacking her, and by golly she was
right. But usually it's guys.

Most dead batteries are first thing in the morning, and I can drag out
my 100' extension cord (since I can't park very close to my house) and
my charger and in a few minutes charge it enough, and it's good for the
whole day.

But I also carry cables, and eventually I got 16' thick ones.

For a while when I lived in NY/Brooklyn, I had two car burglar alarms. I
though I only had one. I thought the second one only sent a message to a
fob I carried, if the first alarm tripped, but after years learned that
the seoond one was using current all the time too.

I still think that if I never let the battery get discharged much, it
would last for 30 years, even though everyone and my own exprerience
says no. Having old batteries was another source of my dead batteries.

lso had Battery Buddy, that monitored the voltage and disconnects the
car from the battery if it's too low. First one lasted maybe 10 years.
Second one I had to buy on Ebay, came in a plain brown box, and it
lasted only 18 months. I think when the company closed, they had a stack
of defective ones they didn't plan to sell, but whoever bought the
remainder sold them anyhow.

So finally I bought Priority Start. 2 or 3 times the price of Battery
Buddy, but when the battery gets disonnected, I don't have to get out of
the car and open the hood/bonnet. I just do something that uses a bunch
of electricty, like putting my foot on the brake or turning on the
lights, and it reconnects. If you listen you can hear the motor closing
the contacts.

And now I have the jumper battery, so it's like wearing a belt and
suspenders and another belt.

As to tire changes, the last time was this winter, in the snow, on an
expressway miles from home and miles from my destination, and I'm 78,
and I called someone.=20
=20

I'm "only" 65 - but might consider doing so in such circumstances.
Though I'd probably have a go while waiting, if they told me they'd be ag= >es.

A year earlier, at Dec. 27, in the dark, in the rain, I drove over a
little island in the street and soon realized I had a flat on the front
left. I was 77 then, and in a hurry, going to buy something for my
vacation trip the next morning. I parked in a church driveway and
changed the tire in the cold, light rain, occasionally talking to myself
hoping some young guy would hear me and offer to help. But there was no
one around.

The next morning I had a flat on the rear left too, and I'd used the
spare, plus I only had an hour to get to the airport. I left the car,
knowing that it's against the rules here to park with a flat for more
than a day or two, and I was leaving for a month.

It's easy to get a tire repaired if you drive in, or to get your car
towed, but I couldn't figure out how to have someone come out and fix my
tire without the towing and a month's storage. Finally a friend
reminded me of the word "mobile". There are only 2 mobile tire repairs
listed in or near Baltimore, but the one near me came out within 3
hours, brought another tire, put it on the rim and back on the car, took
a picture, and called me when he was done, and I paid him over the
phone. It was great.

Apparently I ruined the second tire too, when I ruined the first, even
though that previous night, it went to the store, parked for 30 minutes
and 2 miles back to my house. I looked at the island with street view, expecting to see some sort of traffic sign that was knocked down and
left a sharp stub pointing up but there was none. When I got back I went
in person and there was nothing sharp, yet it flattened two tires.

--=20
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
=00
"Mary Poppins is a junkie" - bumper sticker on Julie Andrews' car in the
'60s

LOL

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/10/6 21:13:9, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 6 Oct 2025 11:17:16 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

I'm sure that transformer

wastes a lot of power, but she's still happy.=20

Actually, if a transformer is all it is, and thinking about it it
doesn't need to be anything else, then no, it won't be wasting much
power - transformers are pretty efficient:

Oh, good.

power companies use them all
the time!

That's true, and I think they are in the box at the end of a string of townhouses, and I've never noticed any heat coming from one of them.

Yes, from what I've seen in films and TV, the power system in the US
often has them mounted on poles near houses. But you'll also find them throughout the electricity grid, wherever there is need to change the
voltage level (higher voltage means lower current, which means less loss
where the power needs to be sent a long distance); they're why we use AC
rather than DC (which until the electronic age couldn't easily be
converted to a different voltage, and even with electronics is difficult
and at best only say 80-95% efficient, often far less). One of the few
things Edison got wrong!

[]

I'll see how I get on this winter. Though most common flat battery is
home (I don't go out much), and I have the last one I bought for my
previous car (I'd just changed it before the car was declared not wort

h

maintaining, so I put the old one back in to take it to be scrapped),

so

don't need (I hope!) one of those.>

I seem to be unusually afraid of a dead battery. Maybe it's fron the
years when I had a weak battery. Over 30 years from 1967 to 2007, I
probably had to ask the public for a jump 20 or 30 times. I'd pull out

the cables and stand there, and usually someone would stop. One time well-dressed pretty girl stopped. That was surprising, but she seeme t

o

think she could help me without my attacking her, and by golly she was
right. But usually it's guys.

Most dead batteries are first thing in the morning, and I can drag out
my 100' extension cord (since I can't park very close to my house) and
my charger and in a few minutes charge it enough, and it's good for the

whole day.

Yes, with modern alternators - rather than the old dynamos - once you've
got the thing started, it usually generates enough (electrical) power to
keep you going once the oil is thinned. (I don't think I was driving in
the dynamo days, but I'm told they were a pain because they were so
weedy.)>

But I also carry cables, and eventually I got 16' thick ones.

For a while when I lived in NY/Brooklyn, I had two car burglar alarms.

I

though I only had one. I thought the second one only sent a message to

a

fob I carried, if the first alarm tripped, but after years learned that

the seoond one was using current all the time too.

"Modern" cars (last 20 years or so, give or take five or ten) with a
computer, that is running all the time too. Even if fairly low power,
... well, I have the computer (this one, I mean) set to remind me to
charge it once a week. I've been ignoring the reminders through the
summer, but I think I'll have to start paying attention again soon ...>

I still think that if I never let the battery get discharged much, it
would last for 30 years, even though everyone and my own exprerience
says no. Having old batteries was another source of my dead batteries.

(-:
Yes, I too feel they should last longer than they do.

[]

So finally I bought Priority Start. 2 or 3 times the price of Battery
Buddy, but when the battery gets disonnected, I don't have to get out o

f

the car and open the hood/bonnet. I just do something that uses a bunch

of electricty, like putting my foot on the brake or turning on the
lights, and it reconnects. If you listen you can hear the motor closin

g

the contacts.

And now I have the jumper battery, so it's like wearing a belt and
suspenders and another belt.

As to tire changes, the last time was this winter, in the snow, on an

expressway miles from home and miles from my destination, and I'm 78,

and I called someone.=20
=20

I'm "only" 65 - but might consider doing so in such circumstances.
Though I'd probably have a go while waiting, if they told me they'd be

ag=

es.

A year earlier, at Dec. 27, in the dark, in the rain, I drove over a
little island in the street and soon realized I had a flat on the front

left. I was 77 then, and in a hurry, going to buy something for my
vacation trip the next morning. I parked in a church driveway and
changed the tire in the cold, light rain, occasionally talking to mysel

f

hoping some young guy would hear me and offer to help. But there was n

o

one around.

(-:

[]

"Mary Poppins is a junkie" - bumper sticker on Julie Andrews' car in t

he

'60s

LOL

I think at that point she got rather fed up of her "wholesome" image.
(She was 90 last Wednesday!)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother,"saidPoohwhenhisspacebarrefusedtowork.


--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 11:57:52 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

On 2025/10/5 22:45:21, micky wrote:

He's 82 and hasn't bought anything new-fangled, including a smart phone.

I'm surprised how long HDMI has been on TVs. (Though also, know people
still use very old TVs: I myself have a couple of CRT ones.) Kudos to
him for resisting a smartphone! I have had one, but have since resisted
the temptation - partly because of the cost of the data contract
necessary to justify having it (peanuts in practice, but not something I >need), and partly because from what I gather they really _are_ on an
about 3-year renewal cycle, that isn't avoidable as it is with PCs, and
that _is_ a significant amount of money.

Elsewhere, I believe you said that you don't go out much these days, so
I'd make the argument that you wouldn't have much use for a data
contract if you had a smartphone, since you could spend all or most of
your time on WiFi. Most people probably have WiFi at home, so perhaps
you do, as well.

Also, that 3-year cycle that you've heard about might be situations
where the phone's battery no longer holds a full day's charge, but that wouldn't be an issue because you could easily put the phone on a charger wherever you happened to be around the house.

FWIW, I tend to reach the point where the battery becomes an
inconvenience around the 5-6 year mark. I'm guessing that a 3-year cycle
might actually have more to do with people feeling like they're falling
behind in some way, so they rush out to get the latest.

Bottom line, though, is that none of this stuff actually matters if you
feel like you don't need a smartphone. If you don't need it, then any
price is too high.


--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/10/7 7:47:29, Char Jackson wrote:

On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 11:57:52 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
wrote:

On 2025/10/5 22:45:21, micky wrote:

He's 82 and hasn't bought anything new-fangled, including a smart pho

ne.

I'm surprised how long HDMI has been on TVs. (Though also, know people

still use very old TVs: I myself have a couple of CRT ones.) Kudos to
him for resisting a smartphone! I have had one, but have since resiste

d

the temptation - partly because of the cost of the data contract
necessary to justify having it (peanuts in practice, but not something

I

need), and partly because from what I gather they really _are_ on an
about 3-year renewal cycle, that isn't avoidable as it is with PCs, an

d

that _is_ a significant amount of money.

Elsewhere, I believe you said that you don't go out much these days, so

I'd make the argument that you wouldn't have much use for a data
contract if you had a smartphone, since you could spend all or most of
your time on WiFi. Most people probably have WiFi at home, so perhaps
you do, as well.

That is exactly it (and why I resent the assumption everywhere that
everyone has one, and the necessary contract - here at least two of our supermarket chains won't give you a plastic discount card). I'd _like_
to have one of these handheld computers for use when I _am_ out, but the
cost of the contract rankles - not so much that I can't afford it, just
the principle.

(I _do_ have a fobile - one with buttons - for emergencies (mainly car breakdown*), but on a - true! - PAYG contract; that was hard to find
now! [The contract I mean, not the 'phone.])

* It may amuse you that I currently have my breakdown cover with the AA,
and that the AA provide lots of motoring services! I know in the US it
means Alcoholics Anonymous, but here it's the Automobile Association,
one of the two largest breakdown services (the other is the RAC, though
there are plenty of others).

Also, that 3-year cycle that you've heard about might be situations
where the phone's battery no longer holds a full day's charge, but that

wouldn't be an issue because you could easily put the phone on a charge

r

wherever you happened to be around the house.

I hadn't thought about the battery aspect ...

FWIW, I tend to reach the point where the battery becomes an
inconvenience around the 5-6 year mark. I'm guessing that a 3-year cycl

e

might actually have more to do with people feeling like they're falling

behind in some way, so they rush out to get the latest.

... it was more that aspect. But not so much the "always having the
latest" aspect, but the "won't support" one; my smartphone was Android
4. I get the general impression that new app.s won't run on an Android
more than about 3 years old. And I get the impression that many
manufacturers don't upgrade - certainly not the cheaper ones; if you pay
a few hundred more, you get upgrades for 1-3 years if you're lucky.

Bottom line, though, is that none of this stuff actually matters if you

feel like you don't need a smartphone. If you don't need it, then any
price is too high.

Thank you for appreciating that!


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die
- attributed to Carrie Fisher by Gareth McLean, in
Radio Times 28 January-3February 2012

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[...]

[About the 'need' for a smartphone:]

That is exactly it (and why I resent the assumption everywhere that
everyone has one, and the necessary contract - here at least two of our supermarket chains won't give you a plastic discount card). I'd _like_
to have one of these handheld computers for use when I _am_ out, but the
cost of the contract rankles - not so much that I can't afford it, just
the principle.

(I _do_ have a fobile - one with buttons - for emergencies (mainly car breakdown*), but on a - true! - PAYG contract; that was hard to find
now! [The contract I mean, not the 'phone.])

You mention 'contract' and 'PAYG contract', but don't you have
pre-paid (i.e. no contract) plans in the UK?

We mostly use (the apps on) the smartphones on Wi-Fi (mostly at home,
but also elsewhere).

When we're out and about (without Wi-Fi access), we use very little -
if any - mobile data and even less (outbound) calls and no (outbound)
SMS. So a pre-paid plan suits us very well. Our average cost is less
than 1.50 Euro a month (probably going to be 5 Euro a month, because the
data provider (Lebara) changed the rate).

[...]

FWIW, I tend to reach the point where the battery becomes an
inconvenience around the 5-6 year mark. I'm guessing that a 3-year cycle might actually have more to do with people feeling like they're falling behind in some way, so they rush out to get the latest.

... it was more that aspect. But not so much the "always having the
latest" aspect, but the "won't support" one; my smartphone was Android
4. I get the general impression that new app.s won't run on an Android
more than about 3 years old. And I get the impression that many
manufacturers don't upgrade - certainly not the cheaper ones; if you pay
a few hundred more, you get upgrades for 1-3 years if you're lucky.

FWIW, Our Samsung Galaxy A51 phones are over 5 years old (August
2020), came with Android 10 and were upgraded through Android 13. We
haven't yet had any apps which couldn't run on Android 13 and the
batteries are still fine, That phone cost 279 Euro at the time. So our
cost has been about 55 Euro per year. (At the moment, A-Series phones
start at about 200 Euros.)

On 2025/10/7 7:47:29, Char Jackson wrote:

Bottom line, though, is that none of this stuff actually matters if you feel like you don't need a smartphone. If you don't need it, then any
price is too high.

+<very_large_number>

Thank you for appreciating that!

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[...]

[About the 'need' for a smartphone:]

That is exactly it (and why I resent the assumption everywhere that
everyone has one, and the necessary contract - here at least two of our
supermarket chains won't give you a plastic discount card). I'd _like_
to have one of these handheld computers for use when I _am_ out, but the
cost of the contract rankles - not so much that I can't afford it, just
the principle.

(I _do_ have a fobile - one with buttons - for emergencies (mainly car
breakdown*), but on a - true! - PAYG contract; that was hard to find
now! [The contract I mean, not the 'phone.])

You mention 'contract' and 'PAYG contract', but don't you have
pre-paid (i.e. no contract) plans in the UK?

We do. PAYG is typically not on a contract.

They are harder to get than they used to be and, since Brexit, not that
good value as prices have increased significantly as we're no longer
covered by the EU price caps. <sigh>

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025/10/7 16:47:4, Frank Slootweg wrote:

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
[...]

[About the 'need' for a smartphone:]

That is exactly it (and why I resent the assumption everywhere that
everyone has one, and the necessary contract - here at least two of ou

r

supermarket chains won't give you a plastic discount card). I'd _like_

to have one of these handheld computers for use when I _am_ out, but t

he

cost of the contract rankles - not so much that I can't afford it, jus

t

the principle.

(I _do_ have a fobile - one with buttons - for emergencies (mainly car

breakdown*), but on a - true! - PAYG contract; that was hard to find
now! [The contract I mean, not the 'phone.])

You mention 'contract' and 'PAYG contract', but don't you have
pre-paid (i.e. no contract) plans in the UK?

By contract, I just meant a SIM card, which I preload money onto, which
lasts until I use it up (with the possibility of having to make one call
every 90 days or so to keep the number active). The vast majority of
contracts I know other people have cost so much a month, regardless of
whether they use them or not.

The one I have is actually a variation: it isn't monthly, but if I _do_
use it, it then costs me œ2 (from the amount I've loaded onto it) -
but
I have unlimited calls (and some huge amount of data) for the rest of
that day. Given I really only have it in case my car breaks down, that
sounded potentially useful. I still have to use it every 90 days oe so,
though, so the œ10 I loaded onto it will last about 18 months. I wou
ld
have gone for a true PAYG one, but they were hard to find, or wouldn't
work with the dumbphone I have (which I think is 2G), or were with a
network with poorer coverage.

We mostly use (the apps on) the smartphones on Wi-Fi (mostly at home,

but also elsewhere).

When we're out and about (without Wi-Fi access), we use very little -

if any - mobile data and even less (outbound) calls and no (outbound)

But the little is not none. And AIUI most if not all of e. g. store
discount app.s need _some_ live access to work.

SMS. So a pre-paid plan suits us very well. Our average cost is less
than 1.50 Euro a month (probably going to be 5 Euro a month, because th

e

data provider (Lebara) changed the rate).

Mine is effectively 67p a month unless I use it.

[]

... it was more that aspect. But not so much the "always having the
latest" aspect, but the "won't support" one; my smartphone was Android

4. I get the general impression that new app.s won't run on an Android

more than about 3 years old. And I get the impression that many
manufacturers don't upgrade - certainly not the cheaper ones; if you p

ay

a few hundred more, you get upgrades for 1-3 years if you're lucky.

FWIW, Our Samsung Galaxy A51 phones are over 5 years old (August
2020), came with Android 10 and were upgraded through Android 13. We
haven't yet had any apps which couldn't run on Android 13 and the
batteries are still fine, That phone cost 279 Euro at the time. So our
cost has been about 55 Euro per year. (At the moment, A-Series phones
start at about 200 Euros.)

So that's an expenditure of ?55 a year, to stay compatible with t
hings.
I could definitely afford it, just resent the assumption that I will!>

On 2025/10/7 7:47:29, Char Jackson wrote:

Bottom line, though, is that none of this stuff actually matters if y

ou

feel like you don't need a smartphone. If you don't need it, then any

price is too high.

+<very_large_number>

Thank you for appreciating that!

(-:


--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The 'good life' begins when you stop wanting a better one
(Nkosiphambili E. Molapis)

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On 2025-10-03 22:39, micky wrote:

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Fri, 3 Oct 2025 19:11:31 +0100, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

...

So I think you should take it apart and remove the hard disk. You
should take with you adapters to suit all types of disk, so that you can
connect the disk to the new laptop.

I have more than one such device. I have a double dock, which last time semed to be acting funny, so I bought another barebones connection that
works just fine. I can bring both, leave it with him when I go home and
buy another for myself

And while I like shopping in stores, another good thing about Amazon is
that any tool I forget to take with me, I can probably get in one day if
I'm willing to join Prime (They are, as they usually do, offering me a
free 30 days now, but I only take it if I have a particular reason to
need something quickly. Usually before a trip.

Prime Rant follows:
I can't believe they were fined a billion dollars and told to pay
another 1.5 billion in restitution because they "trick people into
signing up for prime" and then "make it too difficult to cancel".

I didn't know. I registered for Prime some years ago, did not unregister
ever. But maybe Prime is cheaper here.

I've signed up for Prime about 6 times in the last 20 years, 5 of them
free and once I paid iirc 3 or 4 dollars for 5 days. And I've
cancelled every time except once before they charged me for the
following month. Is cancellation difficult? You have to click on
Accounts and Lists, then on Prime, then on Cancel. Then it says, Are
you sure? and you have to say Yes. Then it says, Are you really sure?
and it lists everything you're giving up, Prime video, prime audio,
whatever, and you have to click on Yes. Then it asks are you really,
really sure? And you have to click on Yes. Then it says "Cancelled.
Did you want to change your mind? Click here to reinstate Prime" and
you have to say no, or just close the tab.

LOL. They really are that insistent? Maybe not nice.

Is that so difficult? I've tried to find out details of why they say it
was difficult but haven't found them.

Do they trick you to sign up? In Ebay the default setting in cases
where a warranty was possible was No warranty. That's nice, but
Amazon's default is delivery in 2 days while joining prime at the same
time. If you scroll down one page, you'll see that and you have to
check Free Delivery in 4 or 5 days. Clicking takes 2 seconds. Is that
so hard? You have to do it every time you buy something. Is that so
hard?

Maybe not nice.

On one occasion, I forgot to cancel my prime until about 3 or 4 days
into the next month. So I cancelled it then, having paid already for
the next/current month, but the computer refunded my money without my
asking, without my doing anything, and in only a minute or two so I
presume no human had to okay it. It referred to the fact that I had not bought anything in those 3 days, but I'm sure a lot of businesses would
have said, "So what? Too bad, so sad. You had 30 days to cancel and
you didn't do it."

They were fair.

BTW, if you fear you'll forget to cancel, you can cencel right after joining** and the cancellation won't take effect until the 30 days are
up **Well, maybe the computer will think you're trying to cancel the
first month too, but I've cancelled 7 days after I joined and it didn't
take effect until the 30 days were up.

I don't know what more Amazon could do to be fair.

Good luck!

Thanks.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES??, EU??;

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)

On Wed, 10/8/2025 7:48 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 7/10/2025 3:44 am, micky wrote:

<Snip>

Back to my computer, a Dell Latitude 5510 (Dell made another 5510 that
is not a Latitude. I guess they have a shortgage of numbers there and
have to use them twice.)

It would be interesting to know if two 5510's were the same under the bonnet (so to speak) or not. Same Same computer just re-badged by the manufacturer to suit the two importers/retailers.

Dell Latitude 5510
Dell Precision 5510
Dell Inspiron 5510
Dell Vostro 15 5510

And there are yet more models ending in 5510.

And they can't really be the same, because of the
price range those would span.

Paul

--- PyGate Linux v1.0
* Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)