“Your computer is toast

“Running Windows 10 on your computer? On October 14 Microsoft wants to
turn it into junk.

“It may seem like it continues to work after that date for a bit, but when Microsoft stops support for Windows 10, your perfectly good computer will
be officially obsolete.

“Windows 10 will degrade as more and more bugs come to light. With nobody
to correct them, you risk being hacked. Your data, identity, and control
over your device could be stolen.

“New versions of your apps will not run, but Microsoft will still block
you from upgrading to the next version of Windows until you buy the new computer they decide.”

Scary? Yes. Exaggerated? No. Because that’s what Microsoft really wants to do. Just like it has done so many times before.

<https://kde.org/for/w10-exiles/>

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Wed, 6/4/2025 8:41 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

“Your computer is toast

“Running Windows 10 on your computer? On October 14 Microsoft wants to turn it into junk.

“It may seem like it continues to work after that date for a bit, but when Microsoft stops support for Windows 10, your perfectly good computer will
be officially obsolete.

“Windows 10 will degrade as more and more bugs come to light. With nobody to correct them, you risk being hacked. Your data, identity, and control over your device could be stolen.

“New versions of your apps will not run, but Microsoft will still block you from upgrading to the next version of Windows until you buy the new computer they decide.”

Scary? Yes. Exaggerated? No. Because that’s what Microsoft really wants to do. Just like it has done so many times before.

<https://kde.org/for/w10-exiles/>

Was that a picture of one of the KDE staffers computer room ?

Maybe that's their build server ? :-)

Seriously, I scanned the page and I don't see an action plan.
How exactly will the software climb onto the PC ?

That's what is missing from the Year Of The Linux Desktop,
is the Concierge service. Remember, your average user is
not a C.S. graduate, and with the sorry state of Google searches
these days, even the best-prepared website is never going to show
up in a search.

How do I put the ISO on the USB stick ? Some of the people,
just a few, will remember trying one USB stick tool after another,
and ending up with nothing to show for their trouble. And those
are the people who will be offering advice.

A few of the users, will try to download the ISO onto
a FAT32 partition for temporary storage. Say, a 6GB Ubuntu DVD.
And you know what happens when you do that. I've done that
*several* times by accident. Today, there are no more FAT32 partitions
in the active computer room. When the WinXP machine died, the interest
in FAT32 went with it.

I looked at gstatcounter today, and I saw some strange patterns
in there. What's weird about the patterns, is there are real world
events... and the patterns in gstatcounter are delayed by two or
three months. Nothing seems to "align immediately" exactly. It's
my suspicion, that Microsoft is winning by playing this game. But
it's a natural outcome. The path of least resistance is being followed.
I've already heard one USENETter say the fateful words,
"maybe I should buy a Win11 machine". Not many would have
the balls to admit something like that. Normally that sort
of thing happens silently.

That's why I'm telling you that Concierge service is the only
campaign that will work. Unless a loaded USB stick shows up in a mailer
on each users doorstep, it's not gonna happen.

Google has an offering for the Chrome Book OS, and the offering is a bit
more friendly than the competition. Unfortunately, their GUI
is not very expressive. When the installer boots, it should just
say "um, we don't install on desktops, hey, try your laptop".
Instead, the interface just freezes... as a status code. When
I booted my laptop with that installer USB, I finally made it
past the first screen. But had no intention of installing it
on my laptop.

If it's one thing I know about helping users, it takes *forever*
to get one of them tipped upright. It's like herding turtles.
How this is a recipe for the Year Of The Linux Desktop,
escapes me. The above web page isn't helping.

If you were serious about your campaign, you'd send 100 serialized
USB sticks to each Public Library. Then, on the KDE web page,
when everything is staged, you'd have the users sign out the
stick at the library, and bring it back later. Or, be charged
a nominal fee (similar to a late book charge). Libraries do not
enjoy being dragged into every crazy assed scheme, but they
were the point of contact here for FreeNet. You could fill
out a FreeNet sheet, show your drivers license to attest to
the details, and the sheet was then forwarded to FreeNet.
There isn't really a FreeNet here any more, but that's how
they got some people hooked up on an "hour a week" dialup plan.
The local FreeNet modem front end was donated by a high tech company.

Pressed DVDs would be cheaper, but the instant response in the
audience would be "hey, I don't got a DVD drive". That's why
I can't utter magic words like that.

Paul


--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 21:17:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in <101qr6t$158p2$1@dont-email.me>:

On Wed, 6/4/2025 8:41 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

“Your computer is toast

“Running Windows 10 on your computer? On October 14 Microsoft wants to
turn it into junk.

“It may seem like it continues to work after that date for a bit, but
when Microsoft stops support for Windows 10, your perfectly good
computer will be officially obsolete.

“Windows 10 will degrade as more and more bugs come to light. With
nobody to correct them, you risk being hacked. Your data, identity, and
control over your device could be stolen.

“New versions of your apps will not run, but Microsoft will still block
you from upgrading to the next version of Windows until you buy the new
computer they decide.”

Scary? Yes. Exaggerated? No. Because that’s what Microsoft really wants
to do. Just like it has done so many times before.

<https://kde.org/for/w10-exiles/>

Was that a picture of one of the KDE staffers computer room ?

Maybe that's their build server ? :-)

Seriously, I scanned the page and I don't see an action plan.
How exactly will the software climb onto the PC ?

That's what is missing from the Year Of The Linux Desktop,
is the Concierge service.

I've written about this before. Someone could start a business along the
lines of "Geek Squad" that caters to Linux.

Because when you get down to it, what is the "concierge service" for
Windows? Seems to be Geek Squad, or any number of local establishments.

For Linux, one might be lucky and find a local establishment that knows it
-- or a friendly LUG. I know one elderly lady (who posts as "Bliss") who
got help from SFLUG. I know another grandma who uses Linux _and_ Usenet,
who has a daughter who is Linux-savvy.

Remember, your average user is not a C.S.
graduate, and with the sorry state of Google searches these days, even
the best-prepared website is never going to show up in a search.

You know as well as I do that you don't need to be a "C.S. graduate" to
use Linux. It's not 2015 anymore. I daresay Linux is easier to install
and use than Windows.

"But what about MS Office?" someone may ask: For the most part,
Office 365 works on Linux. (Alas, Access doesn't. That's the only
reason I haven't moved my parents to Linux.)

How do I put the ISO on the USB stick ?

Beats me. How do you do it for Windows?

Some of the people,
just a few, will remember trying one USB stick tool after another,
and ending up with nothing to show for their trouble. And those are the people who will be offering advice.

A few of the users, will try to download the ISO onto a FAT32 partition
for temporary storage. Say, a 6GB Ubuntu DVD.
And you know what happens when you do that. I've done that *several*
times by accident. Today, there are no more FAT32 partitions in the
active computer room. When the WinXP machine died, the interest in FAT32
went with it.

I looked at gstatcounter today, and I saw some strange patterns in
there. What's weird about the patterns, is there are real world
events... and the patterns in gstatcounter are delayed by two or three months. Nothing seems to "align immediately" exactly. It's my suspicion,
that Microsoft is winning by playing this game. But it's a natural
outcome. The path of least resistance is being followed. I've already
heard one USENETter say the fateful words,
"maybe I should buy a Win11 machine". Not many would have the balls to
admit something like that. Normally that sort of thing happens silently.

That's why I'm telling you that Concierge service is the only campaign
that will work. Unless a loaded USB stick shows up in a mailer on each
users doorstep, it's not gonna happen.

Google has an offering for the Chrome Book OS, and the offering is a bit
more friendly than the competition. Unfortunately, their GUI is not very expressive. When the installer boots, it should just say "um, we don't install on desktops, hey, try your laptop".
Instead, the interface just freezes... as a status code. When I booted
my laptop with that installer USB, I finally made it past the first
screen. But had no intention of installing it on my laptop.

If it's one thing I know about helping users, it takes *forever*
to get one of them tipped upright. It's like herding turtles.
How this is a recipe for the Year Of The Linux Desktop,
escapes me. The above web page isn't helping.

If you were serious about your campaign, you'd send 100 serialized USB
sticks to each Public Library. Then, on the KDE web page,
when everything is staged, you'd have the users sign out the stick at
the library, and bring it back later. Or, be charged a nominal fee
(similar to a late book charge). Libraries do not enjoy being dragged
into every crazy assed scheme, but they were the point of contact here
for FreeNet. You could fill out a FreeNet sheet, show your drivers
license to attest to the details, and the sheet was then forwarded to FreeNet.
There isn't really a FreeNet here any more, but that's how they got some people hooked up on an "hour a week" dialup plan.
The local FreeNet modem front end was donated by a high tech company.

Pressed DVDs would be cheaper, but the instant response in the audience
would be "hey, I don't got a DVD drive". That's why I can't utter magic
words like that.

Thanks for the history lesson, but I'm just as frustrated with the
"Freenet" model as you are.

Back in 1994, our enterprise wanted to be a "Freenet". Turns out there
was a licensing fee: $20K, IIRC. Uh, no thanks -- so we became a
"paynet". "Freenet" seemed like a scam.

With careful cost accounting, we figured we could break even with a
reasonable number of customers at $2/mo. That became our "charter
member" fee, and we set it up so that folks could pay up to a year
in advance before we raised the fees to $12/mo. These were fair
prices for a BBS community that was itching to get on the Internet.

"Support forums" were Usenet groups, and we had one especially for
Linux. Today, forums like alt.os.linux and alt.os.linux.mint exist, and
are fairly active. No reason that someone on Usenet couldn't get
themselves running on Linux, as long as they can write to a USB drive
and boot it. Linux Mint also has web forums for support. It's no
different than most people experience with Windows.

I will say one thing: I once contacted Microsoft Support about getting
a download link for Access. (I was going to try to run it on proton, on Linux.) They were courteous and helpful. If someone started a service
like that for Linux, they'd be sitting on a goldmine.

--
-v ASUS TUF DASH F15 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3060 Mobile 6G
OS: Linux 6.8.0-60-generic D: Mint 22.1 DE: Xfce 4.18 Mem: 258G
"No one ever said "if I'd only spent more time in the office""

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: ---:- FTN<->UseNet Gate -:--- (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Wed, 6/4/2025 10:44 PM, vallor wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 21:17:15 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in

How do I put the ISO on the USB stick ?

Beats me. How do you do it for Windows?

This tool used to be hosted on the microsoftstore.com . That's
a site where you could buy Windows 8 at the time. Like all USB stick
utilities, it has its own peculiarities (some of the tools *insist*
you put a partition on the stick, then they immediately *erase*
the partition). This should handle Vista (truly obsolete now) to W11.

Windows7-USB-DVD-Download-Tool.exe

And the other one is Rufus.ie tool.
Which does all sorts of stuff.

Only a burned DVD has hybrid behavior. I don't think
either tool manages that, and you have to decide which
boot mode the stick will support (UEFI or legacy, pick one).

Anything to do with booting, is always a rough ride. Imagine
for example, you own a Dell and someone passes you what they
thought was a decent USB stick preparation. The fun is only
beginning. I dealt with a user once, their Dell was basically
"crazy". It wouldn't do anything you asked it to do. Imagine
getting Linux on that machine. It would try your patience as
a helper. You can't even visualize what is going on and
what to do next. Like, sometimes I can tell from a response,
the shift lock is on. But every response the machine made,
made no sense.

Paul

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CKDE_For_Windows_10_Exiles=E2=80=9D_Campaig?=
=?UTF-8?Q?n?=

W dniu 5.06.2025 o�03:17, Paul pisze:

Seriously, I scanned the page and I don't see an action plan.
How exactly will the software climb onto the PC ?

This is totally unfair!!! KDE advertise Plasma, not distro. Distros are
listed under URL linked in article:

<https://kde.org/distributions/>

And I try first of them:

<https://fedoraproject.org/kde/>

At the bottom of the page is button: "Download Now", it jump us to the:

https://fedoraproject.org/kde/download

And bellow this page we have... surprise!

quote:"Fedora Media Writer
Getting started with Fedora Linux is easier than ever. All you need is a
4GB USB flash drive and the Fedora Media Writer utility.

After Fedora Media Writer is installed, you can use it to write a "Live" version of Fedora Linux to a flash drive. You will then be able to boot
from your flash drive and try Fedora Linux out without making any
permanent changes to your computer. Once you are hooked, transferring
Fedora Linux from the flash drive to your computer's hard drive is a
matter of clicking a few buttons.* Learn more"

So your nag that people don't know what to do with USB stick and ISO
files are BS and evil propaganda!

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Energo Kod (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CKDE_For_Windows_10_Exiles=E2=80=9D_Campaig?=
=?UTF-8?Q?n?=

W dniu 5.06.2025 o 05:32, 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 pisze:

W dniu 5.06.2025 o�03:17, Paul pisze:

Seriously, I scanned the page and I don't see an action plan.
How exactly will the software climb onto the PC ?

This is totally unfair!!! KDE advertise Plasma, not distro. Distros are listed under URL linked in article:

<https://kde.org/distributions/>

And I try first of them:

<https://fedoraproject.org/kde/>

At the bottom of the page is button: "Download Now", it jump us to the:

https://fedoraproject.org/kde/download

And bellow this page we have... surprise!

quote:"Fedora Media Writer

Other approach:

Start your fav browser, type in the URL/search bar:

how to install kubuntu

In duckduckgo.com first link is:

<https://userbase.kde.org/Kubuntu/Installation>

Which not only allow check ISO file (with MD5 sum), but also guide how
to write it on USB stick or DVD optical disc. Below is detailed
instruction how install Kubuntu (screen shots included).


Other approach:

On the page: <https://kde.org/distributions/> I click:

<https://neon.kde.org/download>

And bellow this page we have... surprise!

quote: "Install using KDE ISO Image Writer.

Download the ISO file, use KDE ISO Image Writer (or on Mac we recommend
ROSA Image Writer) to make a bootable USB drive with the ISO file and
reboot using that USB drive.

KDE ISO Image Writer
ROSA Image Writer for Mac OS X
GPG signatures signed by KDE neon ISO Signing Key (0x45F4C354638D1F29)
are available alongside the ISOs for verification."


But to be honest, not all distros seems to be that friendly like Fedora
or Kubuntu or KDE Neon... But who care with such odds?!?

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Energo Kod (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Wed, 6/4/2025 11:32 PM, 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 wrote:

W dniu 5.06.2025 o�03:17, Paul pisze:

Seriously, I scanned the page and I don't see an action plan.
How exactly will the software climb onto the PC ?

This is totally unfair!!! KDE advertise Plasma, not distro. Distros are listed under URL linked in article:

<https://kde.org/distributions/>

And I try first of them:

<https://fedoraproject.org/kde/>

At the bottom of the page is button: "Download Now", it jump us to the:

https://fedoraproject.org/kde/download

And bellow this page we have... surprise!

quote:"Fedora Media Writer
Getting started with Fedora Linux is easier than ever. All you need is a 4GB USB flash drive and the Fedora Media Writer utility.

After Fedora Media Writer is installed, you can use it to write a "Live" version of Fedora Linux to a flash drive. You will then be able to boot from your flash drive and try Fedora Linux out without making any permanent changes to your computer. Once you are hooked, transferring Fedora Linux from the flash drive to your computer's hard drive is a matter of clicking a few buttons.* Learn more"

So your nag that people don't know what to do with USB stick and ISO files are BS and evil propaganda!

Under the behavior tab, in "Files Dropped", the Fedora Media Writer
has references to "GoogleUpdater".

https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/a83e7eb878f1e6eb40f12da647ac03b1e3ed5cb3026bc74a1d4ce9ee24d4262f/behavior

C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\137.0.7129.0
C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\137.0.7129.0\Crashpad
C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\137.0.7129.0\Crashpad\attachments C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\137.0.7129.0\Crashpad\metadata C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\137.0.7129.0\Crashpad\reports C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\137.0.7129.0\uninstall.cmd C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\137.0.7129.0\updater.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7156.0
C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7156.0\Crashpad
C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7156.0\Crashpad\attachments C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7156.0\Crashpad\metadata C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7156.0\Crashpad\reports C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7156.0\uninstall.cmd C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7156.0\updater.exe
C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7194.0
C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7194.0\Crashpad
C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7194.0\Crashpad\attachments C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7194.0\Crashpad\metadata C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7194.0\Crashpad\reports C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7194.0\uninstall.cmd C:\Program Files (x86)\Google\GoogleUpdater\138.0.7194.0\updater.exe

Any idea what that is doing in a QT6 package ?

Paul

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 00:41:09 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

“Your computer is toast

“Running Windows 10 on your computer? On October 14 Microsoft wants to >turn it into junk.

“It may seem like it continues to work after that date for a bit, but when >Microsoft stops support for Windows 10, your perfectly good computer will
be officially obsolete.

“Windows 10 will degrade as more and more bugs come to light. With nobody >to correct them, you risk being hacked. Your data, identity, and control >over your device could be stolen.

“New versions of your apps will not run, but Microsoft will still block >you from upgrading to the next version of Windows until you buy the new >computer they decide.”

Scary? Yes. Exaggerated? No. Because that’s what Microsoft really wants to >do. Just like it has done so many times before.

The computer on which I'm writing this is still running Windows XP.

When my Windows 7 laptop was stolen I replaced it by a Windows 10
machine, and insisted that they install the 32-bit version.

I've not really had occasdion to call Microsoft support, though I'm
aware that the help files will probably become inaccessible after
Microsoft ceases its support, and follows its planned obsolescence
policy.

But if I downgrade to Windows 11, a lot of my software will stop
weorking.

There should be a law that says that when any commercial software firm
ceases to support software, it should immediately be put in the public
domain and made open source. A lot of institutions have "digitised"
all sorts of records, and in some cases have destroyed the hard copy originals,. and as time goes by the digitised records become
inaccessible, largely because of the planned obsolescence policies of
bodies like Microsoft.







--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Khanya Publications (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 07:06:50 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

There should be a law that says that when any commercial software firm
ceases to support software, it should immediately be put in the public
domain and made open source.

You really think Government intervention can make things better?

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 23:26:59 -0700, T wrote:

Transitioning to Linux is a YUGE undertaking. Not minor like W10 to
W11.

The problem is that transitioning to Dimdows 11, for those who haven’t already done it, will mean junking their existing hardware and buying new machines. Linux offers the option to keep their existing hardware working, often even better than before.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Thu, 6/5/2025 2:43 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 23:26:59 -0700, T wrote:

Transitioning to Linux is a YUGE undertaking. Not minor like W10 to
W11.

The problem is that transitioning to Dimdows 11, for those who haven’t already done it, will mean junking their existing hardware and buying new machines. Linux offers the option to keep their existing hardware working, often even better than before.

I think I've already shown you my *licensed* copy of Windows 11
running on a *4th gen* computer. And I don't think it has
an MSA, either. Like T says, it's just a copy of windows 10,
when you run it on ancient hardware like that -- just about
all the Windows 11 features under the hood, switch themselves off.

I haven't tried it, but you should be able to run Windows 11 on
less than 1GB of RAM. That's because 8GB of RAM does not need to be
reserved for AI (Qualcomm), and the 2.6GB sandbox image is not
required either (sandbox disabled). It really should not need
more RAM than Win10 at that point.

to simulate low RAM, you can edit the BCD and cause the
OS to not use all the RAM the machine has. You don't
even need to pull RAM sticks out of the machine and throw
them on the floor. You can disable some RAM using bcdedit.

Paul

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 23:52:12 -0700, T wrote:

And there a ton of ways around W11's ridiculous hardware requirements

This is why they say, Windows is a great OS -- if your time is worth
nothing.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CKDE?= For Windows 10
=?UTF-8?Q?Exiles=E2=80=9D?= Campaign

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2025-06-05, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

“Your computer is toast

“Running Windows 10 on your computer? On October 14 Microsoft wants to turn it into junk.

“It may seem like it continues to work after that date for a bit, but when Microsoft stops support for Windows 10, your perfectly good computer will
be officially obsolete.

“Windows 10 will degrade as more and more bugs come to light. With nobody to correct them, you risk being hacked. Your data, identity, and control over your device could be stolen.

“New versions of your apps will not run, but Microsoft will still block you from upgrading to the next version of Windows until you buy the new computer they decide.”

Scary? Yes. Exaggerated? No. Because that’s what Microsoft really wants to do. Just like it has done so many times before.

<https://kde.org/for/w10-exiles/>

Essentially, Microsoft are making an Operating System that can't
actually operate your computer, and convicing users that the deficiency
is with them, the user and not with the OS, which just fails to run.
The pertinent point here is that the requires system specs aren't really
a "requirement", but a deficiency of the OS.

This is an inversion of GNU/Linux, which is intended to run on whatever hardware it could feasibly run on.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2025-06-05, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 07:06:50 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

There should be a law that says that when any commercial software firm
ceases to support software, it should immediately be put in the public
domain and made open source.

You really think Government intervention can make things better?

Well, copyright is a product of the government and the government
determines the length of copyright protection. So the government is
already involved.


However, enforcing it become open source would be a new intervention,
and one I don't think is warranted. Not when we already have a choice
in many circumstances to chose something that is already open source.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: A noiseless patient Spider (3:633/280.2@fidonet)

Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CKDE_For_Windows_10_Exiles=E2=80=9D_Campaig?=
=?UTF-8?Q?n?=

On 2025-06-05 04:44, vallor wrote:

....

I will say one thing: I once contacted Microsoft Support about getting
a download link for Access. (I was going to try to run it on proton, on Linux.) They were courteous and helpful. If someone started a service
like that for Linux, they'd be sitting on a goldmine.

Long ago, I got a support phone call from SuSE, trying to help me.

You got I think it was 3 months free phone support for installation.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
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Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CKDE_For_Windows_10_Exiles=E2=80=9D_Campaig?=
=?UTF-8?Q?n?=

On 2025-06-05 04:44, vallor wrote:

"But what about MS Office?" someone may ask: For the most part,
Office 365 works on Linux. (Alas, Access doesn't. That's the only
reason I haven't moved my parents to Linux.)

Funny. Few people use Access :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
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Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CKDE_For_Windows_10_Exiles=E2=80=9D_Campaig?=
=?UTF-8?Q?n?=

On 2025-06-05 19:44, rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:29:29 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-05 04:44, vallor wrote:

"But what about MS Office?" someone may ask: For the most part, Office
365 works on Linux. (Alas, Access doesn't. That's the only reason I
haven't moved my parents to Linux.)

Funny. Few people use Access :-)

The ones that do have built their interfaces around Access and are locked
to it forever.

Yes, that is so.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
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Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CKDE_For_Windows_10_Exiles=E2=80=9D_Campaig?=
=?UTF-8?Q?n?=

On 2025-06-05 08:56, T wrote:

On 6/4/25 11:43 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 23:26:59 -0700, T wrote:

Transitioning to Linux is a YUGE undertaking.� Not minor like W10 to
W11.

The problem is that transitioning to Dimdows 11, for those who haven’t
already done it, will mean junking their existing hardware and buying new
machines. Linux offers the option to keep their existing hardware
working,
often even better than before.

There are tons of ways around having to junk your
old, functional computer to run W11.� Rufus comes
to mind.

Most of the methods I have seen involve a fresh install of W11 instead
of an upgrade of W10→11

--
Cheers, Carlos.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
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On Thu, 6/5/2025 1:58 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-05 08:56, T wrote:

On 6/4/25 11:43 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 23:26:59 -0700, T wrote:

Transitioning to Linux is a YUGE undertaking.� Not minor like W10 to
W11.

The problem is that transitioning to Dimdows 11, for those who haven’t >>> already done it, will mean junking their existing hardware and buying new >>> machines. Linux offers the option to keep their existing hardware working, >>> often even better than before.

There are tons of ways around having to junk your
old, functional computer to run W11.� Rufus comes
to mind.

Most of the methods I have seen involve a fresh install of W11 instead of an upgrade of W10→11

You can plug in the Rufus stick, run setup.exe off it,
and partake of the bypasses it provides. That means,
not only can you boot the Rufus stick and do a Clean Install,
you can also use it as a container for an Upgrade Install.

Paul

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On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 19:52:43 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:29:29 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

The ones that do have built their interfaces around Access and are
locked to it forever.

Yes, that is so.

Well, either they consider their IT a strategic competitive asset, or they don’t. If they do, then betting their business on inflexible software that is incapable of adapting to modern needs is going to rebound on them
sooner or later.

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On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 02:28:43 -0700, T wrote:

Unfortunately, if the programs you need to run are only written for
Windows, you are stuck with it. 99% of everyone is stuck with it.

Actually, the proportion is a bit less nowadays. Free Software tends to be invisible in the marketplace because money isn’t changing hands.

You can run Windows programs in Linux with the Wine application layer,
but Wine is alpha stage code at best.

It seems to be good enough to run the majority of Windows-specific games
on the Steam Deck. That product has created a whole new market category, handheld PC gaming, where the Windows-based competitors are really
struggling to gain a foothold.

And, you have to admit, games are among the most difficult things to run properly under an emulator.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
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Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?B?4oCcS0RF?= For Windows 10
=?UTF-8?B?RXhpbGVz4oCdQ2FtcGFpZ24=?=

On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 23:23:44 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

Windows 10 will continue to run just fine.

Only if you have the expertise to cope with its (in)compatibility quirks. Which not many Windows users do.

Windows 10 will have a longer life than XP did.

XP actually had an artificially-extended life, because Microsoft needed something to compete with the Linux-based netbooks, and Vista certainly wasn’t cutting it.

10 doesn’t seem to have any corresponding excuse.

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On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 03:07:57 -0700, T wrote:

When M$ see your system does not have the requirements to run its stupid spyware, it just wont install it. Yippee!

Or maybe it will just say it’s not installing it.

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On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 17:36:42 -0700, T wrote:

A prime example of this is LibreOffice, which I do use myself. LO has to
be, not similar, but "EXACTLY" the same as M$ Office or they blow a
cork.

Interesting, because Microsoft Office is notorious for formatting inconsistencies just from moving documents between different machines. If
they will put up with that, why should they complain about LibreOffice,
which does a better job anyway?

Oh and they wont pay for the upgrade to the new version of M$ Office.

But they will pay for Adobe’s products??

Wine is actually an application layer. They get their nickers in a
twist if you call it an emulator.

Try looking up “emulator” in the dictionary?

Wine is no more “not an emulator” than GNU is “not Unix”.

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
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On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 05:22:32 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jun 2025 07:06:50 +0200, Steve Hayes wrote:

There should be a law that says that when any commercial software firm
ceases to support software, it should immediately be put in the public
domain and made open source.

You really think Government intervention can make things better?

It would depend on the nature of the intervention. In this case, yes.

People before profit.




--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
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On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 21:46:02 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/5/25 6:50 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

But they will pay for Adobe’s products??

Once and nothing after that

But all Adobe’s stuff is rentware now. Stop paying and you lose control of your own work.

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On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:08:28 -0700, T wrote:

These customers have older revisions. And often times they are on the
latest OS and are pissed that their old stuff stopped working properly.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, unsupported software?

--- MBSE BBS v1.1.1 (Linux-x86_64)
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rbowman wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 13:29:29 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-06-05 04:44, vallor wrote:

"But what about MS Office?" someone may ask: For the most part, Office
365 works on Linux. (Alas, Access doesn't. That's the only reason I
haven't moved my parents to Linux.)

Funny. Few people use Access :-)

The ones that do have built their interfaces around Access and are locked
to it forever.

Keep in mind
There are no official announcements(from MSFT) that Access is being discontinued.
- Support for Access 2019 ends in Oct 2025
=> Access will continue to run but no longer receive updates or
security fixes
=> Access 2019 functionality after that date could eventually be
limited to supported o/s.

=> Access is included in consumer M365 plans(current M365 is version 2024)
=> Access is included in Business M365 2024 plans(Standard, Premium, Business Apps, but not in Business Basic)
=> Access is expected to continue inclusion in specific editions of perpetual(non-subscriptin) M365 office versions(e.g. Office Pro Plus 2024)
=> Access perpetual/stand-alone(not M365) version 2024 remains available


--
....w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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On Fri, 6/6/2025 8:11 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 6/06/2025 9:04 pm, T wrote:

On 6/6/25 3:11 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 6/06/2025 1:08 am, Joel wrote:

In a related, but different, line ..... does Apple regularly Dead End/ Obsolete their Macs or is a (say) 2020 Mac still capable of running the latest Mac OS??

A 2015 Mac??

A 2010 Mac??

Yes they do.� Apple is a total pain in the ass about it.
Get new hardware of no new OS.

OSx is to damned weird to use anyway.

Thanks for reply, T.

Can't say I've heard any rumbling from them ..... maybe because they are only, what, 15 - 20% of the Computing World.

Or is it just that I don't 'frequent' those places??

They have used 68000, PowerPC, Intel, ARM.

That gives opportunities for throwing customers
onto the side of the road.

Paul

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On Fri, 6/6/2025 6:24 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 6/06/2025 10:36 am, T wrote:

On 6/5/25 4:31 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

<Snip>

I do use GNU Cash.� It is has a bloody difficult learning curve,
but once you get there, it is a wonderful tool.� I can't see
any of my customer abandoning QuickBooks (a Linux killer) for it.
Too much "new" to learn.

You can run Windows programs in Linux with the Wine application layer, >>>> but Wine is alpha stage code at best.

It seems to be good enough to run the majority of Windows-specific games >>> on the Steam Deck. That product has created a whole new market category, >>> handheld PC gaming, where the Windows-based competitors are really
struggling to gain a foothold.

And, you have to admit, games are among the most difficult things to run >>> properly under an emulator.

Wine is actually an application layer.� They get their nickers
in a twist if you call it an emulator.� Chuckle.

T, what would be the possibility of setting your customers up to use Linux .... and then, for those 'special' programs (like QuickBooks) giving your customers a desktop icon called 'QuickBooks' which actually boots Wine and opens 'QuickBooks'??

Sure, it could end up with several copies of Wine running, each operating different Windows programs but it would be "DO"able, wouldn't it??

Commercial softwares use licensing mechanisms.
Those mechanisms aren't always compatible with WINE.

One guy wrote a piece of software, the software could
detect exactly where it was, whether it was in a VM,
under WINE, on native hardware. In fact, the location
capability it had at the time, was more impressive than
the software it was protecting.

WINE is not intended to defeat license mechanisms. Via
DMCA, you could find yourself in jail doing that. As
a consequence, there is a very fine line to tread, to
avoiding "trouble".

Paul

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 04:15:20 -0700, T wrote:

I still use Lotus Approach.

Hopefully not for anything important.

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 04:14:28 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/5/25 4:27 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Well, either they consider their IT a strategic competitive asset, or
they don’t. If they do, then betting their business on inflexible
software that is incapable of adapting to modern needs is going to
rebound on them sooner or later.

The problem is that most businesses do not want to adapt to anything.
They want what they have to continue working. Period.

That’s fine. So they get out-competed by somebody who pays more attention
to IT being a strategic competitive asset, and go out of business. No need
to feel any sympathy for them.

And you have the "I don't want to learn anything new " crowd.

For a business that persists in employing such people, see above.

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 04:04:46 -0700, T wrote:

OSx is to damned weird to use anyway.

It’s officially “Unix”, but it doesn’t quite work the way people expect
when they think of “Unix”.

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 01:18:26 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/6/25 12:30 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jun 2025 23:08:28 -0700, T wrote:

These customers have older revisions. And often times they are on the
latest OS and are pissed that their old stuff stopped working
properly.

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

Yes and no. If the obsolete software runs your mission-critical
perfectly, then yes. Freeze everything.

Wrong answer. The answer is no.

This is the objective behind Red Had Enterprise Linux. Freeze old
versions of Fedora. Bugs and all.

That’s not how it works. They do fix bugs in RHEL, you know, for as long
as the old version is supported. That’s what’s meant by “supported”.

I also do Payment Card Industry (PCI) consulting.
You are required to have a "supported" operating system. And
Point-of-Sale software is foolishly (I cleaned up the swear word)
written on Windows.
So every M$ update is a very stressful experience, not to mention the
down time they take.

Seems like there is an opportunity for a competitor to bring out a non- Windows-based alternative that offers lower support costs.

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 19:00:19 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/6/25 5:50 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 04:04:46 -0700, T wrote:

OSx is to damned weird to use anyway.

It’s officially “Unix”, but it doesn’t quite work the way people expect
when they think of “Unix”.

The grouches on OSx forums get testy with you if you call it Unix. They demand you call it POSIX. It is still Unix.

Calling it “POSIX” doesn’t really help <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOeku3hDzrM>.

This is why a lot of people say “*nix”. It dodges the trademark, even
as the name “Unix” still occurs in some of the details. For example,
the “Unix philosophy” is a core part of this. E.g. the system should
be a bunch of toolkits that implement only mechanism, without imposing
a particular policy: let the users/admins/developers implement
whatever policies they want with the help of those toolkits.

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 19:13:23 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/6/25 5:47 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 04:15:20 -0700, T wrote:

I still use Lotus Approach.

Hopefully not for anything important.

I wrote my companies accounting system in it.
Yes, it is important.

I used to use FileMaker Pro on a Macintosh, for two main business-related systems that I had developed myself: my time-and-billing system, and
cheque reconciliation.

When I went to Linux, I wrote Python programs for doing both tasks: the
first on top of MySQL/MariaDB, the latter on top of SQLite.

For an example of the difference, my cheque reconciliation database
involved running AppleScript code to match up the stub entries and the statement entries. The Linux/Python version would finish the entire task
in the time it took for the Mac/AppleScript version to find the first
record.

I looked at Libre Office database. It is so buggy,
it is horrible to the point of being unusable.

LibreOffice Base has its own built-in DBMS, but it can also act as a
front-end to things like MySQL/MariaDB and SQLite, among others -- and
either one of those can run rings around Microsoft Access. Think of
LO:Base just as a GUI front-end tool to a *real* DBMS.

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 20:17:58 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/6/25 7:42 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 19:13:23 -0700, T wrote:

I looked at Libre Office database. It is so buggy,
it is horrible to the point of being unusable.

LibreOffice Base has its own built-in DBMS, but it can also act as a
front-end to things like MySQL/MariaDB and SQLite, among others -- and
either one of those can run rings around Microsoft Access. Think of
LO:Base just as a GUI front-end tool to a *real* DBMS.

The bugs. The bugs. The bugs. The bugs. The bugs.
The bugs. The bugs.

What sorts of bugs? Are they still in current versions? Have you reported
any of them?

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On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 20:19:40 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/6/25 7:13 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

For example, the “Unix philosophy” is a core part of this. E.g. the
system should be a bunch of toolkits that implement only mechanism,
without imposing a particular policy: let the
users/admins/developers implement whatever policies they want with
the help of those toolkits.

That explains it! Thank you.

Also, I would say that macOS in its current form no longer conforms to
that “Unix philosophy”. For example, it enforces a particular GUI, inextricably bound into the OS kernel.

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Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CKDE_For_Windows_10_Exiles=E2=80=9D_Campaig?=
=?UTF-8?Q?n?=

On 2025-06-07 08:22, T wrote:

On 6/6/25 9:50 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 20:17:58 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/6/25 7:42 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 19:13:23 -0700, T wrote:

I looked at Libre Office database.� It is so buggy,
it is horrible to the point of being unusable.

LibreOffice Base has its own built-in DBMS, but it can also act as a
front-end to things like MySQL/MariaDB and SQLite, among others -- and >>>> either one of those can run rings around Microsoft Access. Think of
LO:Base just as a GUI front-end tool to a *real* DBMS.

The bugs. The bugs. The bugs. The bugs. The bugs.
The bugs. The bugs.

What sorts of bugs? Are they still in current versions? Have you reported
any of them?

Mainly crashing.�� I have not tried it in the last year or so.

Doesn't crash for me.

I have a small database in MySQL which I currently access using LO.
Originally designed and used with Rekall.

I report a ton of bugs on writer and calc, but not on database.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

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On Sat, 6/7/2025 8:40 AM, chrisv wrote:

T wrote:

One customer I had, does not upgrade any hardware until
it dies. When their server went down, it really cost and
hurt them.

Crazy.

It's been proven, that computers are an optional part of
any business.

Just buy lots of boxes of three-part carbon paper,
and some pads of quad-rule paper for taking notes,
and that is enough for the job.

That's what I liked about my work. On the one hand,
we could be spending three or four million a year,
designing cavity-buster silicon chips. And if you
needed a phone installed at your desk there, the
order was filled out on three part carbon paper,
and the employees had robust ancient-looking desks
with "inbox" tray and "outbox" tray for the three
part carbon (one copy of your order goes there).

And if you phoned up and asked "where is that telephone
installation I asked for a month ago", you would hear
"ruffle-ruffle-ruffle" as the individual would
"fast index" the pile of paper on its desk :-)
That was the height of the comedy, the ruffling noise.
"Wow, that sounds faster than SQLITE".

We simply could not break the paper habit.

If an organization was <cough> "forced" to accept
computerized ordering, what happens then ?

The twits print off three copies of your order,
put one copy of fresh clean typing paper in
"Bobs inbox" and "away we go". Four weeks later,
"ya gotcha phone, what are ya complaining about now?".

They would promptly thwart the appearance of computer ordering,
by immediately printing off three copies.

So really, when push comes to shove, that old 386
in the storage room, wasn't doing much of anything
anyway. Three part carbon, saves the day. The employees
just love the paper. And a manager walking by,
knows when to order up another employee, based on
how tall the stack is in each in-basket.

Paul

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Subject: Re: =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CKDE?= For Windows 10
=?UTF-8?Q?Exiles=E2=80=9D?= Campaign

T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote at 02:13 this Saturday (GMT):

On 6/6/25 5:47 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 04:15:20 -0700, T wrote:

I still use Lotus Approach.

Hopefully not for anything important.

I wrote my companies accounting system in it.
Yes, it is important.

I looked at Libre Office database. It is so buggy,
it is horrible to the point of being unusable.

Is it a SQL based database? I've been doing fine for now just using
sqlite.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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On Sat, 6/7/2025 1:35 PM, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 15:50:06 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote at 02:13 this Saturday (GMT):

On 6/6/25 5:47 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 6 Jun 2025 04:15:20 -0700, T wrote:

I still use Lotus Approach.

Hopefully not for anything important.

I wrote my companies accounting system in it.
Yes, it is important.

I looked at Libre Office database. It is so buggy,
it is horrible to the point of being unusable.

Is it a SQL based database? I've been doing fine for now just using
sqlite.

Strange, while both the Fedora and Ubuntu boxes have LibreOffice as part
of the default install neither have LibreOffice Base. It requires

sudo apt update
sudo apt install libreoffice-base

Must be good!

When you have Suite softwares, a certain set of them are considered
to be the "Core" modules, others can be optional. What you're seeing
isn't unusual. It's like someone getting a copy of MSOffice and
noticing that Visio isn't installed. Well, who would want that
anyway :-) We for some reason, had Visio at work, but my imagination
was not ignited by its presence. I'd rather have a copy of SuperPaint
(which combined elements of vector and pixmap graphics, back
in the day). I used to draw a lot of stick diagrams, and SuperPaint
was great for that, even if the handling of gridding left a bit
to be desired.

Paul

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On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 08:52:02 -0400, Paul wrote:

It's been proven, that computers are an optional part of any business.

You think a business like Google or Facebook could run without computers?

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On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 15:15:16 -0400, Paul wrote:

I'd rather have a copy of SuperPaint (which combined elements of
vector and pixmap graphics, back in the day).

I remember that as a Macintosh program. Did you run it on the Mac? Though there was a competitor, available under two names: “GraphicWorks” and “ComicWorks”, which was more flexible than SuperPaint because the pixmap blocks were objects within the vector drawing, rather than being a
separate layer. The “ComicWorks” branding was an attempt to highlight that feature as being particularly useful to artists creating comics.

There’s nothing directly like that now, but it’s easy enough to use a separate pixel tool (any or all of Gimp, Krita, MyPaint ...) and then embed/link the pixel graphics into Inkscape as objects within the vector drawing. Linking has the added advantage that updates to the original will
be reflected in the composite document.

Kind of like GraphicWorks/ComicWorks ...

We for some reason, had Visio at work, but my imagination was not
ignited by its presence.

I think Inkscape can do everything that Visio can/could do, as well.

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On Sat, 6/7/2025 8:27 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 08:52:02 -0400, Paul wrote:

It's been proven, that computers are an optional part of any business.

You think a business like Google or Facebook could run without computers?

I bet in Facebook, if you needed a phone for your desk,
there are three sheets of carbon paper controlling the
deployment of equipment and staff.

That is just the way those people roll. They love the
feel of paper, and the taller the stack of orders,
the more important you are.

We used to joke about this, because some of our projects
would have a "paperless office" angle to them. Then the
twit with the phone would show up, holding carbon paper
in hand, and "ruin the illusion".

We were huge consumers of paper. The main printer in my
department went through 2000 sheets per day. Four packs
of paper. The tray was motorized and the motor lifted
2000 sheets of paper, up against the intake roller. The printers
we had back then, were excellent. There's a lot of small
printers today, you wouldn't dream of running 60,000
sheets per month through them.

Paul

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On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 22:54:51 -0400, Paul wrote:

On Sat, 6/7/2025 8:27 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 08:52:02 -0400, Paul wrote:

It's been proven, that computers are an optional part of any business.

You think a business like Google or Facebook could run without
computers?

I bet in Facebook, if you needed a phone for your desk,
there are three sheets of carbon paper controlling the
deployment of equipment and staff.

You would lose that bet.

Remember, an early motto at the company was “move fast and break things”.

You think they even have phones on their desks? Why would they need them?

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On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 19:55:13 -0700, T wrote:

On 6/7/25 5:27 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 08:52:02 -0400, Paul wrote:

It's been proven, that computers are an optional part of any business.

You think a business like Google or Facebook could run without
computers?

I think you missed his sarcasm.

Apparently not, judging from his followup post.

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On Sat, 7 Jun 2025 14:45:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

I have a small database in MySQL which I currently access using LO.

I was going to say, why “small” with “MySQL”, and then I remember that, at
one time. KDE would run an entire personal instance of MySQL on every logged-in GUI session, presumably for contacts databases and stuff like
that.

So, to those who automatically assume that MySQL/MariaDB is only suitable
for “heavyweight” uses ... beware of being misled by traditional proprietary-software marketing categories!

Originally designed and used with Rekall.

Ah <https://store.kde.org/p/1126366>, now that seems to be purely a GUI front-end tool, with no built-in DBMS of its own. Do you find LibreOffice
Base to be a better choice in that category?

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