• Dangerous Precipice that could end all life --- DD simulated by HHH

    From olcott@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 22 13:29:50 2025
    On 11/22/2025 11:56 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    is exactly the same as HHH except that DD does not
    call HHH1(DD) in recursive simulation.

    I already pointed out the massive problem with this.

    If HHH1 is identical to HHH, it means that HHH1 and HHH
    are only different names for exactly the same function.


    In the mathematical abstraction that simply pretends
    the behavioral details don't exist the math itself is
    also a damned liar.

    That you are trying to get away with ignoring these
    details from the stipulated perspective of the execution
    trace in C according to the semantics of C makes you
    a damned liar even when referring to the mathematical
    abstraction.

    The reason that I call you a damned liar and not
    just an ordinary liar is that damned lies against
    my reasoning keep postponing making truth computable.

    This continues to let dangerous liars get away with
    their dangerous lies. Thus your silly trollish head
    games might actually result in the end of life on Earth.

    The world may be plunged in nuclear Winter just
    because people believe that Putin's land grab is
    not mere theft. If truth would have been computable
    five years ago we might not even be on this
    dangerous precipice.

    Functions do not have differences in behavior based
    on what name is being used to refer to them.

    You have a bug there.

    A guy that is smart enough to do this
    https://www.nongnu.org/txr/txr-manpage.html#N-CF27E2FE

    ... is not you, even by a long shot.



    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From olcott@3:633/10 to All on Sat Nov 22 23:02:12 2025
    On 11/22/2025 10:00 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 11:56 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    is exactly the same as HHH except that DD does not
    call HHH1(DD) in recursive simulation.

    I already pointed out the massive problem with this.

    If HHH1 is identical to HHH, it means that HHH1 and HHH
    are only different names for exactly the same function.


    In the mathematical abstraction that simply pretends
    the behavioral details don't exist the math itself is
    also a damned liar.

    The fact that two different names are used to refer to exactly the same function does not constitute a "behavior detail" of that function.

    That you are trying to get away with ignoring these
    details from the stipulated perspective of the execution
    trace in C according to the semantics of C makes you
    a damned liar even when referring to the mathematical
    abstraction.

    If you want your C functions to correspond to recursive
    functions in computation theory, you have to code them
    according to certain rules.

    One of those is that you may not conclude that if f1 != f2 (pointer comparison) then they are different functions.


    HHH1 is at line 589 - 665
    HHH is at line 1081 - 1156

    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
    When DD calls HHH through of C interpreter
    it does not call HHH1 because HHH1 has a
    different name and is at a different location.

    When you show that you know this
    https://www.nongnu.org/txr/
    no one is going to think you are too stupid
    to know how C interpreters work.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Kaz Kylheku@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 23 05:23:30 2025
    On 2025-11-23, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 10:00 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 11:56 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    is exactly the same as HHH except that DD does not
    call HHH1(DD) in recursive simulation.

    I already pointed out the massive problem with this.

    If HHH1 is identical to HHH, it means that HHH1 and HHH
    are only different names for exactly the same function.


    In the mathematical abstraction that simply pretends
    the behavioral details don't exist the math itself is
    also a damned liar.

    The fact that two different names are used to refer to exactly the same
    function does not constitute a "behavior detail" of that function.

    That you are trying to get away with ignoring these
    details from the stipulated perspective of the execution
    trace in C according to the semantics of C makes you
    a damned liar even when referring to the mathematical
    abstraction.

    If you want your C functions to correspond to recursive
    functions in computation theory, you have to code them
    according to certain rules.

    One of those is that you may not conclude that if f1 != f2 (pointer
    comparison) then they are different functions.


    HHH1 is at line 589 - 665
    HHH is at line 1081 - 1156

    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
    When DD calls HHH through of C interpreter
    it does not call HHH1 because HHH1 has a
    different name and is at a different location.

    That's just the thing! If this were correctly implemented then in fact
    DD /wold be/ calling HHH1, using the name HHH.

    Just like if I call you Peter, I'm addressing Olcott.

    There is no such thing as HHH1 being the same as HHH, except that it's
    not called by DD.

    The situation can occur among the procedures of a procedural program,
    whch are not modeling recursive functions in computation theory.

    When you show that you know this
    https://www.nongnu.org/txr/
    no one is going to think you are too stupid
    to know how C interpreters work.

    The problem is that a collection of C functions don't correspond to the recursive primtive functions in computation theory, unless you take very careful measures.

    Those measures are not required in software development in C,
    though some aspects of them can be helpful in that endeavor.

    It's not simply a problem of knowing C or not.

    You've more or less correctly implemented incorrect /requirements/.

    The requirements don't come from the semantics of C.

    --
    TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
    Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
    Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From olcott@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 23 14:53:50 2025
    On 11/22/2025 11:24 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-23, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 10:00 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 11:56 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    is exactly the same as HHH except that DD does not
    call HHH1(DD) in recursive simulation.

    I already pointed out the massive problem with this.

    If HHH1 is identical to HHH, it means that HHH1 and HHH
    are only different names for exactly the same function.


    In the mathematical abstraction that simply pretends
    the behavioral details don't exist the math itself is
    also a damned liar.

    The fact that two different names are used to refer to exactly the same
    function does not constitute a "behavior detail" of that function.

    That you are trying to get away with ignoring these
    details from the stipulated perspective of the execution
    trace in C according to the semantics of C makes you
    a damned liar even when referring to the mathematical
    abstraction.

    If you want your C functions to correspond to recursive
    functions in computation theory, you have to code them
    according to certain rules.

    One of those is that you may not conclude that if f1 != f2 (pointer
    comparison) then they are different functions.


    HHH1 is at line 589 - 665
    HHH is at line 1081 - 1156

    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
    When DD calls HHH through of C interpreter
    it does not call HHH1 because HHH1 has a
    different name and is at a different location.

    That's just the thing! If this were correctly implemented then in fact
    DD /wold be/ calling HHH1, using the name HHH.


    *You (and everyone in the comp.lang.c group) that*
    *you are a damned liar about this*

    Because this and other such liars prevent truth
    from becoming computable and that this can have
    very dire consequences this might get you
    condemned to actual Hell if such a place exists.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning" computable.

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Chris M. Thomasson@3:633/10 to All on Sun Nov 23 13:32:59 2025
    On 11/23/2025 12:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 11:24 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-23, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 10:00 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 11:56 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    On 2025-11-22, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    is exactly the same as HHH except that DD does not
    call HHH1(DD) in recursive simulation.

    I already pointed out the massive problem with this.

    If HHH1 is identical to HHH, it means that HHH1 and HHH
    are only different names for exactly the same function.


    In the mathematical abstraction that simply pretends
    the behavioral details don't exist the math itself is
    also a damned liar.

    The fact that two different names are used to refer to exactly the same >>>> function does not constitute a "behavior detail" of that function.

    That you are trying to get away with ignoring these
    details from the stipulated perspective of the execution
    trace in C according to the semantics of C makes you
    a damned liar even when referring to the mathematical
    abstraction.

    If you want your C functions to correspond to recursive
    functions in computation theory, you have to code them
    according to certain rules.

    One of those is that you may not conclude that if f1 != f2 (pointer
    comparison) then they are different functions.


    HHH1 is at line˙ 589 -˙ 665
    HHH˙ is at line 1081 - 1156

    https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
    When DD calls HHH through of C interpreter
    it does not call HHH1 because HHH1 has a
    different name and is at a different location.

    That's just the thing! If this were correctly implemented then in fact
    DD /wold be/ calling HHH1, using the name HHH.


    *You (and everyone in the comp.lang.c group) that*
    *you are a damned liar about this*

    Because this and other such liars prevent truth
    from becoming computable and that this can have
    very dire consequences this might get you
    condemned to actual Hell if such a place exists.


    Look in the mirror, and say liar. You would be correct?

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)
  • From Kaz Kylheku@3:633/10 to All on Mon Nov 24 02:44:28 2025
    On 2025-11-23, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 11/22/2025 11:24 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
    That's just the thing! If this were correctly implemented then in fact
    DD /wold be/ calling HHH1, using the name HHH.

    *You (and everyone in the comp.lang.c group) that*
    *you are a damned liar about this*

    Your posturing about liars makes you look like an even bigger
    moron. Everything in this area is verifiable.

    It is not a matter of trust.

    I'm conveying ideas (and sometimes code), which anyone can check for themselves. I'm not asking anyone take it on my word and just believe
    me. (That's more or less how you operate; don't project that onto me).

    If you don't understand it, so that you have to rely on trust,
    that's just your lack of ability.

    Because this and other such liars prevent truth
    from becoming computable and that this can have
    very dire consequences this might get you
    condemned to actual Hell if such a place exists.

    Bat shit lunacy; go see someone who is qualified
    and licensed to prescribe the right meds.

    --
    TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
    Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
    Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

    --- PyGate Linux v1.5.1
    * Origin: Dragon's Lair, PyGate NNTP<>Fido Gate (3:633/10)